futurist
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Post by futurist on Jun 20, 2016 4:20:28 GMT
What if Britain would have militarily intervened in Corsica in the late 1760s in an attempt to prevent France from capturing Corsica? Any thoughts on this? Also, how would (the Corsican) Napoleon Bonaparte's life have developed and turned out in this scenario? In addition to this, for reference: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsican_Crisis |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 20, 2016 14:18:48 GMT
Any thoughts on this? Also, how would (the Corsican) Napoleon Bonaparte's life have developed and turned out in this scenario? He would be immigrate to the French Louisiana where he takes power and become king of New France. |
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futurist
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Post by futurist on Jun 22, 2016 7:35:19 GMT
Any thoughts on this? Also, how would (the Corsican) Napoleon Bonaparte's life have developed and turned out in this scenario? He would be immigrate to the French Louisiana where he takes power and become king of New France. He wouldn't be a French citizens in this scenario if Britain successfully prevents France from capturing Corsica in this scenario, though. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 22, 2016 16:08:41 GMT
I have read that he nearly ended up in the RN OTL, which I think he would have been less than successful at. He might have ended up, as he did for a brief while, as a Corsican patriot, servring under Pauli the Corsican independence leader who opposed the Genovans and then the French occupations.
I'm not sure what the basis for a British intervention would be, especially so soon after the very expensive Seven Year's War. Especially since Genova owned the island and sold it to France and it doesn't really give the French any additional strategic advantage. Given that Britain has Minorca at this time it already has a naval base in the region so has no great use for Corsica.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 22, 2016 16:18:24 GMT
I have read that he nearly ended up in the RN OTL, which I think he would have been less than successful at. He might have ended up, as he did for a brief while, as a Corsican patriot, servring under Pauli the Corsican independence leader who opposed the Genovans and then the French occupations. I'm not sure what the basis for a British intervention would be, especially so soon after the very expensive Seven Year's War. Especially since Genova owned the island and sold it to France and it doesn't really give the French any additional strategic advantage. Given that Britain has Minorca at this time it already has a naval base in the region so has no great use for Corsica. The British are British, having a island so close to the French would make the French go hot with furry. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 22, 2016 16:22:44 GMT
I have read that he nearly ended up in the RN OTL, which I think he would have been less than successful at. He might have ended up, as he did for a brief while, as a Corsican patriot, servring under Pauli the Corsican independence leader who opposed the Genovans and then the French occupations. I'm not sure what the basis for a British intervention would be, especially so soon after the very expensive Seven Year's War. Especially since Genova owned the island and sold it to France and it doesn't really give the French any additional strategic advantage. Given that Britain has Minorca at this time it already has a naval base in the region so has no great use for Corsica. The British are British, having a island so close to the French would make the French go hot with furry. Channel Islands?? Yes the French would be very unhappy, especially if Britain managed to not only prevent French control of Corsica but directly or indirectly ruled it themselves. However I rather doubt they would have the incentive to intervene. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 22, 2016 16:25:44 GMT
The British are British, having a island so close to the French would make the French go hot with furry. Channel Islands?? Yes the French would be very unhappy, especially if Britain managed to not only prevent French control of Corsica but directly or indirectly ruled it themselves. However I rather doubt they would have the incentive to intervene. Could this not end up as the Anglo-Corsican Kingdom 30 years earlier than OTL. |
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futurist
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Post by futurist on Jun 22, 2016 23:42:09 GMT
1. I have read that he nearly ended up in the RN OTL, which I think he would have been less than successful at. He might have ended up, as he did for a brief while, as a Corsican patriot, servring under Pauli the Corsican independence leader who opposed the Genovans and then the French occupations. 2. I'm not sure what the basis for a British intervention would be, especially so soon after the very expensive Seven Year's War. Especially since Genova owned the island and sold it to France and it doesn't really give the French any additional strategic advantage. Given that Britain has Minorca at this time it already has a naval base in the region so has no great use for Corsica. 1. Wasn't the Corsican independence rebellion (in real life) crushed back when Napoleon was a little kid, though? 2. For what it's worth, though, there does appear to have been a lot of support in Britain in favor of helping the Corsicans fight against the French (in spite of the legality of the sale of Corsica from Genoa to France): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsican_Crisis |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 23, 2016 20:42:57 GMT
1. I have read that he nearly ended up in the RN OTL, which I think he would have been less than successful at. He might have ended up, as he did for a brief while, as a Corsican patriot, servring under Pauli the Corsican independence leader who opposed the Genovans and then the French occupations. 2. I'm not sure what the basis for a British intervention would be, especially so soon after the very expensive Seven Year's War. Especially since Genova owned the island and sold it to France and it doesn't really give the French any additional strategic advantage. Given that Britain has Minorca at this time it already has a naval base in the region so has no great use for Corsica. 1. Wasn't the Corsican independence rebellion (in real life) crushed back when Napoleon was a little kid, though? 2. For what it's worth, though, there does appear to have been a lot of support in Britain in favor of helping the Corsicans fight against the French (in spite of the legality of the sale of Corsica from Genoa to France): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsican_Crisis The initial revoltion that the French crushed ib 1769 yes but Paoli returned in the 1790's and controlled Corsica with British support for a couple of years. Napoleon was also linked with Corsican nationalism although he broke with Paoli when the later turned against France. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon#Early_career I take your point, Although the government was opposed to intervention there seems to have been a fair amount of public support for Corsica. Possibly a conflict could have come out of it although how that would have developed would have depended on other powers. Not sure whether Austria or Prussia was that interested in another round so it could have been just Britain v France and probably Spain. Which might have had interesting butterflies on the situation in the American colonies. [Since they might have been distracted by further conquests against Spain while it would have emphasised the point of how useful British defence was for the colonies and hence more support for the latter to make some commitment to their defence]. Also possibly support of a pro-British and pretty radical state in Corsica could have influenced the debate in Britain at the time on reform. |
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futurist
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Post by futurist on Jul 5, 2016 4:46:03 GMT
1. Wasn't the Corsican independence rebellion (in real life) crushed back when Napoleon was a little kid, though? 2. For what it's worth, though, there does appear to have been a lot of support in Britain in favor of helping the Corsicans fight against the French (in spite of the legality of the sale of Corsica from Genoa to France): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsican_Crisis 1. The initial revoltion that the French crushed ib 1769 yes but Paoli returned in the 1790's and controlled Corsica with British support for a couple of years. Napoleon was also linked with Corsican nationalism although he broke with Paoli when the later turned against France. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon#Early_career 2. I take your point, Although the government was opposed to intervention there seems to have been a fair amount of public support for Corsica. Possibly a conflict could have come out of it although how that would have developed would have depended on other powers. Not sure whether Austria or Prussia was that interested in another round so it could have been just Britain v France and probably Spain. Which might have had interesting butterflies on the situation in the American colonies. [Since they might have been distracted by further conquests against Spain while it would have emphasised the point of how useful British defence was for the colonies and hence more support for the latter to make some commitment to their defence]. Also possibly support of a pro-British and pretty radical state in Corsica could have influenced the debate in Britain at the time on reform. 1. OK. 2. Out of curiosity--who had naval superiority back in the late 1760s--France + Spain or Britain? Also, though, couldn't the Duke of Grafton have been more conciliatory to the American colonists than Lord North was in real life? |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 5, 2016 17:00:09 GMT
It would probably have varied depending on the circumstances. Because their so bloody expensive many ships are laid up in peacetime and I presume the Bourbon powers have something similar to Britain with officers beached on half pay and sailors released. As such it takes some time to get forces back up to strength once a war starts, train men, get rid of as much of the deadwood that the social system allows, relearn skills and tactics etc. I suspect that France especially would fare better in peacetime and if I remember correctly their main minister in this period was working on building up the navy and avoiding a European war so it could isolate Britain and wage a purely naval/colonial conflict against them, which happened effectiveing in the American revolution. However the longer a war continued the greater efficiency and social strength of Britain, which had much more emphasis on the navy because of its military and economic importance, would have tilted things back in its favour. Of course this wasn't enough in 1777-83 in part due to internal divisions in Britain, poor leadership at high levels and the high degree of diplomatic isolation that occurred with war with France, Spain & the Netherlands and poor relations with the Baltic Powers. Its difficult to see what else the British government could have done to appease the more hard line colonists other than continue to pay for their entire defence as it had done in the past. Might have been better taking a harder line earlier and especially not allowing the intimidation of so many loyalists and neutrals by the thuggish elements. Along with a much better propaganda campaign to point out that the British stance was quite reasonable. That it was asking a relatively small donation to the total cost of defending the colonies, especially considering the continued burden of defending them. Or possibly calling their bluff and offering full equality in the British Parliament, but making clear they would have to pay taxes at British levels. Which would probably have had the rebellion leaders lynched by their own supporters.  |
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