futurist
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Post by futurist on Jun 23, 2016 17:17:15 GMT
They may have done but Habibullah stated very clear reasons why a small, land-locked state totally surrounded by the territory of a very large alliance shouldn't go to war with it. It would have caused a drain on British and Russia forces but wouldn't have done Afghanistan any good and I think the Emir realised that. It may be that Nasrullah, who later plotted to replace his brother was thinking primarily of that, i.e. 'prompting' himself to the top spot. Ditto with his younger son Amanullah prehaps. Yes, all of this certainly makes sense. However, this raises an interesting question--if someone at the Afghan court would have killed Amir Habibullah in either 1915 or 1916 rather than in 1919 (as was the case in real life), then would the new Afghan Amir (probably either Nasrullah or Amanullah, as was the case in 1919 in real life) actually have Afghanistan enter World War I on the side of the Central Powers (at the very least in order to maintain his credibility and to consolidate his rule and power)? Or would the new Afghan Amir have done a U-turn and remained neutral just like Habibullah before him? Also, for the record, based on the fact that Amanullah actually did invade British India in 1919 in real life, I am tempted to say that if either he or Nasrullah would have become the new Afghan Amir in 1915 or 1916 in this scenario, then the new Afghan Amir would have Afghanistan enter World War I on the side of the Central Powers. Anyway, any thoughts on this?
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futurist
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Post by futurist on Jun 23, 2016 17:17:51 GMT
It doesn't matter if Russia will withdraw from World War I at Lenin's instigation, though. When is the date that Afghanistan Enters WWI on the Side of the Central Powers, is it 1914, 1915, 1916 ore 1917. In either 1915 or 1916--indeed, you decide.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 23, 2016 17:29:45 GMT
When is the date that Afghanistan Enters WWI on the Side of the Central Powers, is it 1914, 1915, 1916 ore 1917. In either 1915 or 1916--indeed, you decide. Lets make it 1915, this will allow the Russian Imperial Army to join in the fun before the outbreak of the revolution.
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futurist
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Post by futurist on Jun 23, 2016 17:30:42 GMT
In either 1915 or 1916--indeed, you decide. Lets make it 1915, this will allow the Russian Imperial Army to join in the fun before the outbreak of the revolution. That's certainly not going to prevent revolution from occurring in Russia in a couple of years, though.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 23, 2016 17:49:20 GMT
Lets make it 1915, this will allow the Russian Imperial Army to join in the fun before the outbreak of the revolution. That's certainly not going to prevent revolution from occurring in Russia in a couple of years, though. I was talking in that the Russian Imperial Army side by side with the British Army fights against the Afghans for two years before the Russians are forced to quit due the outbreak of the revolution.
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futurist
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Post by futurist on Jun 23, 2016 18:06:15 GMT
That's certainly not going to prevent revolution from occurring in Russia in a couple of years, though. I was talking in that the Russian Imperial Army side by side with the British Army fights against the Afghans for two years before the Russians are forced to quit due the outbreak of the revolution. Yes, I certainly know what you meant here.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 23, 2016 19:27:51 GMT
They may have done but Habibullah stated very clear reasons why a small, land-locked state totally surrounded by the territory of a very large alliance shouldn't go to war with it. It would have caused a drain on British and Russia forces but wouldn't have done Afghanistan any good and I think the Emir realised that. It may be that Nasrullah, who later plotted to replace his brother was thinking primarily of that, i.e. 'prompting' himself to the top spot. Ditto with his younger son Amanullah prehaps. Yes, all of this certainly makes sense. However, this raises an interesting question--if someone at the Afghan court would have killed Amir Habibullah in either 1915 or 1916 rather than in 1919 (as was the case in real life), then would the new Afghan Amir (probably either Nasrullah or Amanullah, as was the case in 1919 in real life) actually have Afghanistan enter World War I on the side of the Central Powers (at the very least in order to maintain his credibility and to consolidate his rule and power)? Or would the new Afghan Amir have done a U-turn and remained neutral just like Habibullah before him? Also, for the record, based on the fact that Amanullah actually did invade British India in 1919 in real life, I am tempted to say that if either he or Nasrullah would have become the new Afghan Amir in 1915 or 1916 in this scenario, then the new Afghan Amir would have Afghanistan enter World War I on the side of the Central Powers. Anyway, any thoughts on this? Possibly this would still happen if Habibullah died earlier, although they might still be deterred by the markedly worse situation. Also I note that Amanullah was the younger son and the older one was in charge of the army. Possibly he might inherit or at least challenge for the throne. Anyway, the Afghans lost in 1919 and their situation is markedly worse in 1915, because they have no hope of external support and have enemies to the west and north as well as the south.
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Tipsyfish
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Post by Tipsyfish on Jun 26, 2016 0:34:31 GMT
The Ottomans and Germans had been trying to woo Afghanistan once the war broke out. The Ottomans wanted to use the Afghans as a way to expand their holding within Persia, Central Asia, and the Russian Caucasus. The German diplomat sent to Afghanistan (Baron Max von Oppenheim) Said that the population was not one to be underestimated as they were a powerful and prideful people. They figured that if the Afghans managed to penetrate the Indus Valley that India itself would rise up in rebellion against the British rule.
The Russians were facing issues along it's border with Afghanistan already, mainly with the Kazakhs and a few other people's groups that rose up against being forced to join the army, their main population base was within the central Asian mountains and gave a large (if not weak) barrier to Russian operations against the nation.
To answer the question, you would be looking at roughly 140,000 men (50,000 being the regular army with a supplement of 90.000 tribesmen that would be mainly armed with spears, swords, old firearms etc.) They would be attacking into the Pashtun region, an area that was high in terms of national identity and (albiet unlikely) willing to rise up against the British. The Pashtun people created seven regiments (70,000 men) during the war and five were sent to the western front. One was sent to Mesopotamia and the other to Egypt. So let's say that another 30,000 actually decide to join the Afghan forces (the population of the area is rather small even today, I don't have the exact numbers though) so that's 170,000 men attacking along a 100 mile front. They would have no hope of getting really any supplies from the Central powers as Persia was under partial occupation by the British, and they had an intensive spy network already in place. The English could muster ~120,000 men in India if need be, Portugal had three regiments within their territories in India and depending on the time are part of the Entente, and if worst comes to worst, the Japanese would be more then likely willing to send aid as after 1914, the Japanese had little to no fighting left to do.
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Roderick3D
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Post by Roderick3D on Jun 26, 2016 9:48:44 GMT
What if Afghanistan would have entered World War I on the side of the Central Powers like many Afghans (including many people at the Afghan court) wanted? Any thoughts on this? More one colony for Great Britain it some fake guy representing the government to the masses.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 26, 2016 12:45:24 GMT
What if Afghanistan would have entered World War I on the side of the Central Powers like many Afghans (including many people at the Afghan court) wanted? Any thoughts on this? More one colony for Great Britain it some fake guy representing the government to the masses. I don't think Britain would make it an open colony, especially not while a friendly Russia was an ally. However its likely that the Afghans would be heavily defeated if they tried an actual invasion of India and that British influence would increase afterwards as a result.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 26, 2016 12:47:48 GMT
More one colony for Great Britain it some fake guy representing the government to the masses. I don't think Britain would make it an open colony, especially not while a friendly Russia was an ally. However its likely that the Afghans would be heavily defeated if they tried an actual invasion of India and that British influence would increase afterwards as a result. I think if the United kingdom tried to make Afghanistan a colony they would fail as they would be busy fighting a guerrilla war with many Afghan tribes.
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Roderick3D
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Post by Roderick3D on Jun 26, 2016 13:25:47 GMT
More one colony for Great Britain it some fake guy representing the government to the masses. I don't think Britain would make it an open colony, especially not while a friendly Russia was an ally. However its likely that the Afghans would be heavily defeated if they tried an actual invasion of India and that British influence would increase afterwards as a result. I'm saying that will become a protectorate...
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 26, 2016 13:28:11 GMT
I don't think Britain would make it an open colony, especially not while a friendly Russia was an ally. However its likely that the Afghans would be heavily defeated if they tried an actual invasion of India and that British influence would increase afterwards as a result. I'm saying that will become a protectorate... One most likely with a mind of its own.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 26, 2016 13:31:28 GMT
I'm saying that will become a protectorate... One most likely with a mind of its own. Or probably, from Afghan history, several minds of their own. However think technically Afghanistan was already a protectorate of Britain.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 26, 2016 13:35:04 GMT
One most likely with a mind of its own. Or probably, from Afghan history, several minds of their own. However think technically Afghanistan was already a protectorate of Britain. Yes with a mind of their own where they fought a war with not long after the end of the Great War.
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