A Greater Canada ISOTed into WWII
Apr 13, 2024 16:30:33 GMT
lordroel, Otto Kretschmer, and 1 more like this
Post by stevep on Apr 13, 2024 16:30:33 GMT
This is an idea for a TL I've toyed with but not sure if I have the will-power to do it seriously so thought I would mention it here to see what people might think would occur. The basic idea is that on 30-6-1940 with France signing an armistice a friendly[?] ASB decides to aid Britain by boosting its most powerful remaining ally, i.e. Canada, replacing OTL one with a far more powerful one from a different TL. However either either the ASB is rather naive or possibly has a mischievous streak because the main way this Canada is more powerful is because its significantly larger which will have political and other impacts.
Geography - The Canada that comes consists of the following regions.
a) In the extreme norther there are three territories, Greenland [puchased from Denmark in the late 19thC], OTL Northern Territories and Alaska [obtained from Russia in a Crimean war equivalent]
b) Further south from east to west there are the following provinces largely based on OTL Canada
The Atlantic group - a tight alliance of the provinces of Newfoundland, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia and New Albion - the latter being OTL Maine.
Quebec - pretty much as OTL.
Ontario - Largely as OTL but also including the southern shore of the upper St Lawrence and a region south of Niagara falls basically from Rochester to south of Buffalo. - Basically Canada has full control of the St Lawrence river and the Niagara river/falls area.
Buffalo - roughly OTL Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta.
British Columbia - as OTL but also including the full Oregon Territory i.e. OTL Oregon and Washington states.
c) The southernmost provinces are
Indiana - basically the lands north of the Ohio and east of the Mississippi with also a 20 mile radius around the city of Pittsborough - OTL Pittsburg reaching south of the Ohio. This also includes the capital city of Mooresborough - OTL Chicago.
Lakota - roughly OTL Dakotas [north and south]and Minnesota west of the upper Mississippi,
Montana - OTL Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah and Colorado
Missouri - the lands based on the river of that name including OTL Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa and Missouri states.
California - OTL California and Nevada along Baja California.
The population of the kingdom of Canada is a little less than 85 million making it the most heavily populated and industrialized part of the Britannia Federation of States, although the central capital is still London, England. Its most developed area is Indiana but there is also considerable industrial development in Ontario, British Columbia and California and important industrial centres in Quebec, Buffalo and Missouri. It's head of state is Edward IX but he is not brought along as he was in the UK.
History - was pretty much as OTL until 1781 when the successful defence of Yorktown was made possible by the crushing defeat inflicted on the French fleet at Chesapeake Bay by Admiral Rodney, leading to peace with the European powers in 1783 and the US in 1784. Canada kept its southern territories, what was OTL to be known as the 'old NW' by the US, including an areas around Ft Pitt and also the Maine/New Albion region.
It saw war again in 1804-07 when the US attacked both Canada and Georgia but were defeated in bitter fighting. It was as a result of this conflict that Ontario gained territories from New York state and the region of British control around Ft Pitt was expanded. [In part because of the success of British/Canadian arms when the common border was expanded westward to the Pacific it was at the 42th parallel rather than the 49th of OTL].
The US gained a Pacific coast with the war against Mexico in 1837-40 which saw the bulk of Mexico annexed but lost if again when they tried to take advantage of British distraction in the war of the Triple Alliance in Europe to attack Canada and Georgia. The resulting 1852-57 conflict saw the US heavily defeated and losing lands to Mexico which regained all lands south of the Rio Grande along with Tejas and points westward to the border of Canada which along with Missouri were annexed by Canada. This also saw the forced ending of slavery in the US with most freed slaves moving to either Georgia or Missouri.
Since then there have been no further wars in N America but occasional tension when revanchist leaders in the US gain popular support. However Canada, a kingdom since 1859 has largely maintained its own defence with some aid from Britain along with a common cause with the kingdom of Georgia - which gained that status in 1888 - and the NEC.
Military - The peace time army consists of 18 Infantry brigades and 2 armoured ones. Those can be upgraded to full divisions on mobilization by including ex-soldiers with reserve commitments and territorial units in case of crisis. Other imperial forces aren't deployed in Canada in peacetime but British and Georgian forces sometimes take part in exercises in Canada and vice versa. Formations are similar to OTL forces although with a somewhat superior motorized capacity. There is also an army airforce for ground support although since its at peace the current forces are quite small.
The navy is the 2nd largest in the empire but still substantial and includes some very large ships - loosely based on some proposed diesel powered alternatives to the G3 class mentioned on a naval board here. The Pacific fleet, which in the event of a Pacific war would join with the British and Australian fleets is based around 4 Thunderer class BBs, 38,000 tons, 9x18", 33kts and 2 Ontario class CVs, 27,000 ton, 32kts, 72 a/c.
The Atlantic fleet is larger since there is the possibility of a class with their US rivals with 8 Thunderer class, 4 Colossus class [47,500 ton, 12x18" gun, 29kts, and 3 Ontario class CV. This force is currently supplemented by a visiting British squadron of 4 Thunderers and the CV Ark Royal, 33,000 tons, 33kts and 90 a/c. This does add one complication to the scenario as among the crew is the midshipman Edward Royal, the alias for the 17 year old son of Henry Duke of York and hence the only member of the ATL royal family included in the ISOT.
Both capital ship forces are of course supported by a wide range of lighter units, including cruisers of assorted types and destroyers although subs are fairly backward in the ATL world.
Of course OTL world will be confused by the sudden appearance of this large new Canada and some, most especially the OTL US will be upset as well given their lost much of their territory. The Canadians will be surprised by the disappearance of friendly states such as the Kingdom of Georgia and the NEC. There will be other issues such as the disruption of traffic along the Ohio river as not only is it now an international waterway, with some defences on the Canadian shore but also all bridges are down other than in the Pittsborough region as the edge of the ISOT was mid-river in this area.
So how do you think things will develop? Royal Canada will have an affinity for OTL Britain and will want to help it in the current crisis situation. However will that balance the weakened and quite possibly alienated US and also the possible tension with the US preventing Canada committing its full assistance to the allies against the Nazis? How will this Canada, which is somewhat more liberal and economically pretty powerful interact with Britain and the OTL empire. It should be noted that due to the way things developed Canada and the empire it knew is more liberal in racial terms as well with considerable respect for the significant black population especially in Missiouri province and for the ~7-8% of the population who still consider themselves as full or partly native American.
With a Presidential election coming up in 5 months things will be thrown into a spin in Washington and its going to be complicated as well by the fact a lot of the outgoing Congress are in the awkward position of no longer having electors.
PS To make one thing clear while ATL US has lost lands to Mexico, Georgia and the NEC those regions haven't been brought across like Canada has been so OTL US is significantly larger and more powerful than the one the Canadians are used to and it has full control over the lower Mississippi where the Canadians are used to have free transit rights, which is likely to be another issue of tension.
