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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 10, 2024 22:26:06 GMT
That'd be an interesting PoD as well. Stalin attacks in Finland, several hundred thousand Redarmists are bogged down there, and only then the Wehrmacht strikes... quite sure nobody's used such a PoD before.
I can see some problems with a March 41 Barbarossa. a) What would that mean for the Balkans operations? Would they have to be suspended? Italy might overwhelm Greece eventually because the latter were running low on manpower but a British intervention could change that.
b) Not sure whether there were a lot of Red Army units based opposite the Finnish border in March 41, as compared to the year before?
c) Possibly most of all its still end of winter/early spring. Which means bad weather and then the spring thaw which would strangle movement across much of the main front for about 6-8 weeks..
Why, even May 1941 would lead to a catastrophe for the Wehrmacht! That's why I silently assumed that they'd wait with their surprise attack a few months - the Red Army will be bogged down in Finland, and then the strike happens.
If Stalin wanted to make a second war against Finland, of course they'd be there.
Hope this clarifies things.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 10, 2024 22:56:44 GMT
I can see some problems with a March 41 Barbarossa. a) What would that mean for the Balkans operations? Would they have to be suspended? Italy might overwhelm Greece eventually because the latter were running low on manpower but a British intervention could change that.
b) Not sure whether there were a lot of Red Army units based opposite the Finnish border in March 41, as compared to the year before?
c) Possibly most of all its still end of winter/early spring. Which means bad weather and then the spring thaw which would strangle movement across much of the main front for about 6-8 weeks..
Why, even May 1941 would lead to a catastrophe for the Wehrmacht! That's why I silently assumed that they'd wait with their surprise attack a few months - the Red Army will be bogged down in Finland, and then the strike happens.
If Stalin wanted to make a second war against Finland, of course they'd be there.
Hope this clarifies things.
Not for me to be honest. 575 made a reference to March 41 which I thought initially was a comment about Hitler actually talking with the Finns earlier but now the suggestion seems to be that for some reason there's fighting earlier? Although from your most recent comment is it that Stalin has started a 2nd Winter war and that draws Soviet forces north then the Germans and their other allies attack on 22-6-41?
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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 11, 2024 1:27:41 GMT
Why, even May 1941 would lead to a catastrophe for the Wehrmacht! That's why I silently assumed that they'd wait with their surprise attack a few months - the Red Army will be bogged down in Finland, and then the strike happens.
If Stalin wanted to make a second war against Finland, of course they'd be there.
Hope this clarifies things.
Not for me to be honest. 575 made a reference to March 41 which I thought initially was a comment about Hitler actually talking with the Finns earlier but now the suggestion seems to be that for some reason there's fighting earlier? Although from your most recent comment is it that Stalin has started a 2nd Winter war and that draws Soviet forces north then the Germans and their other allies attack on 22-6-41?
After checking: 575 meant that in March 1941, the Germans may have mentioned the actual date of June 22nd, nothing more. That's where the misunderstanding comes from.
No idea how he got April 1941, though.
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