oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Feb 17, 2024 1:21:07 GMT
1867 NAPOLEON III TAKES BACK THE LOUISIANA PURCHASEPart 1. Napoleon III
The French Intervention, 1861–1867
By the late 1850s, years of internal strife had left the young republic of Mexico fractured and deeply in debt to Europe. Seeing an opportunity to expand the French Empire in the New World, in 1862, French Emperor Napoleon III maneuvered to establish a French client state in Mexico, and eventually installed Maximilian of Habsburg, Archduke of Austria, as Emperor of Mexico.
In 1857, Mexico became embroiled in a civil war that pitted the forces of Liberal reformist Benito Juárez against Conservatives led by Félix Zuloaga. Conservatives exerted control from Mexico City, and the Liberals from Veracruz. The United States recognized the Juárez government in 1859, and in January of 1861, Liberal forces captured Mexico City, greatly strengthening Juárez’s position and legitimacy. However, continued instability had coincided with growing foreign debt that was increasingly difficult for the Mexican government to pay.
Juárez suspended payments on Mexican debt for two years. In response, representatives from the Spanish, French, and British governments met in London, and on October 31, 1861, signed a tripartite agreement to intervene in Mexico to recover the unpaid debts. European forces landed at Veracruz on December 8. Conservatives saw the intervening forces as valuable allies in their struggle against the Liberals. Although the British and Spanish governments had more limited plans for intervention, Napoleon III was interested in reviving French global ambitions, and French forces captured Mexico City, while Spanish and British forces withdrew after French plans became clear. In 1863, Napoleon III invited Maximilian, Archduke of Austria, to become Emperor of Mexico. Maximilian accepted the offer and arrived in Mexico. Maximilian’s Conservative government controlled much of the country.
Mexico becomes the base of ops to take back the Louisiana purchase.
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Post by Max Sinister on Feb 17, 2024 3:18:22 GMT
Sounds ASBish to me... but show us what you've thought of. An ACW where France meddles might become very interesting indeed.
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michelvan
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Post by michelvan on Feb 17, 2024 7:59:02 GMT
I try to understand the context here OTL attempt by Napoleon III to take Mexico was mess, that ende in failure and weaken France for something that happen in 1870... It would be a Diplomatic masterpiece if France lure Britain and Spain into this mess, How will Bismark in Prussia and Austria react on that ? But Spain undergoes the Carlist Wars during 1833-1876, what 1870 use by Bismark... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlist_Wars I see already were this goes, Napoleon III will intervene in US Civil war 1861-1865 to get french Louisiana back Good luck with that France is allies with CSA, to stab them in back and take Louisiana and parts of CSA will only help the Union, who woop-ass the french in return. How will Britain react on this ? and there is Bismark in background, looking at military maps of France... |
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575
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Post by 575 on Feb 17, 2024 10:57:29 GMT
1867 NAPOLEON III TAKES BACK THE LOUISIANA PURCHASEPart 1. Napoleon III
The French Intervention, 1861–1867
By the late 1850s, years of internal strife had left the young republic of Mexico fractured and deeply in debt to Europe. Seeing an opportunity to expand the French Empire in the New World, in 1862, French Emperor Napoleon III maneuvered to establish a French client state in Mexico, and eventually installed Maximilian of Habsburg, Archduke of Austria, as Emperor of Mexico.
In 1857, Mexico became embroiled in a civil war that pitted the forces of Liberal reformist Benito Juárez against Conservatives led by Félix Zuloaga. Conservatives exerted control from Mexico City, and the Liberals from Veracruz. The United States recognized the Juárez government in 1859, and in January of 1861, Liberal forces captured Mexico City, greatly strengthening Juárez’s position and legitimacy. However, continued instability had coincided with growing foreign debt that was increasingly difficult for the Mexican government to pay.
Juárez suspended payments on Mexican debt for two years. In response, representatives from the Spanish, French, and British governments met in London, and on October 31, 1861, signed a tripartite agreement to intervene in Mexico to recover the unpaid debts. European forces landed at Veracruz on December 8. Conservatives saw the intervening forces as valuable allies in their struggle against the Liberals. Although the British and Spanish governments had more limited plans for intervention, Napoleon III was interested in reviving French global ambitions, and French forces captured Mexico City, while Spanish and British forces withdrew after French plans became clear. In 1863, Napoleon III invited Maximilian, Archduke of Austria, to become Emperor of Mexico. Maximilian accepted the offer and arrived in Mexico. Maximilian’s Conservative government controlled much of the country.
Mexico becomes the base of ops to take back the Louisiana purchase.
The French debacle in Mexico will need much more troops to have a go at Louisiane - I don't think Britain will be that happy about French power projection into the Americas nor will certainly the USA. Don't expect the CSA to like very much having to let go of Louisiana and Arkansas and the Texans will surely question their fate.
Let's have a look at it.  |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 17, 2024 15:56:38 GMT
I would agree that the idea sounds highly unlikely. Such a claim is one thing that would find a common cause between the south and north as neither of them would want to lose control of the Mississippi and for both nations it would mean the loss of a lot of territory. Both in terms of Louisiana itself and also places west of it including Texas and California.
Furthermore while it was governed via the colony of New Spain [Mexico] in the period Spain held Louisiana it was transferred back to France it was US property before Mexico itself became independent. As such there's no real Mexican claim on the region. Unless you mean that in return for putting the conservatives in charge in Mexico and possibly also regaining Texas and California in return for France getting Louisiana back? Even then that would be overwhelmingly difficult given both north and south US would oppose that. I can't see other powers approving of the idea either other than possibly Bismarck when he comes to power as it pretty much removes France as a player in Europe for the foreseeable future even if they were to win.
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Feb 28, 2024 15:27:35 GMT
Sounds ASBish to me... but show us what you've thought of. An ACW where France meddles might become very interesting indeed. Max what does ASBish mean? |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 28, 2024 16:05:08 GMT
Sounds ASBish to me... but show us what you've thought of. An ACW where France meddles might become very interesting indeed. Max what does ASBish mean? Senior Chief, ASB means, "Alien space bats, "a neologism for plot devices used in alternate history to mean an implausible point of divergence. |
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Feb 28, 2024 16:33:27 GMT
1867 NAPOLEON III TAKES BACK THE LOUISIANA PURCHASEPart 1. Napoleon III
The French Intervention, 1861–1867
By the late 1850s, years of internal strife had left the young republic of Mexico fractured and deeply in debt to Europe. Seeing an opportunity to expand the French Empire in the New World, in 1862, French Emperor Napoleon III maneuvered to establish a French client state in Mexico, and eventually installed Maximilian of Habsburg, Archduke of Austria, as Emperor of Mexico.
In 1857, Mexico became embroiled in a civil war that pitted the forces of Liberal reformist Benito Juárez against Conservatives led by Félix Zuloaga. Conservatives exerted control from Mexico City, and the Liberals from Veracruz. The United States recognized the Juárez government in 1859, and in January of 1861, Liberal forces captured Mexico City, greatly strengthening Juárez’s position and legitimacy. However, continued instability had coincided with growing foreign debt that was increasingly difficult for the Mexican government to pay.
Juárez suspended payments on Mexican debt for two years. In response, representatives from the Spanish, French, and British governments met in London, and on October 31, 1861, signed a tripartite agreement to intervene in Mexico to recover the unpaid debts. European forces landed at Veracruz on December 8. Conservatives saw the intervening forces as valuable allies in their struggle against the Liberals. Although the British and Spanish governments had more limited plans for intervention, Napoleon III was interested in reviving French global ambitions, and French forces captured Mexico City, while Spanish and British forces withdrew after French plans became clear. In 1863, Napoleon III invited Maximilian, Archduke of Austria, to become Emperor of Mexico. Maximilian accepted the offer and arrived in Mexico. Maximilian’s Conservative government controlled much of the country.
Mexico becomes the base of ops to take back the Louisiana purchase.
The French debacle in Mexico will need much more troops to have a go at Louisiane - I don't think Britain will be that happy about French power projection into the Americas nor will certainly the USA. Don't expect the CSA to like very much having to let go of Louisiana and Arkansas and the Texans will surely question their fate.
Let's have a look at it.
ATL leading top to the 1867.
1. Bismarck will not unify Germany under Prussia until after 1880. How? After a brief flirtation with revolution in 1848, the Austrians restored order and the status quo, humiliating Prussia in the process. Von Bismarck will not be appointed Minister-President of that country in 1870, at which time he will restore Prussia as a great European power by significantly enlarging the Prussian Army, destroyed by the Austrians in 1848.
2. Austria will contribute a full Corps to gain booty and to repay France for her support in 18948 that almost strangled Prussia in her cradle.
3. Poor Jaurez will be killed this depriving the opposition of its key leader. The opposition to A French controlled Mexico will disappear as the Conservatives faction, that brought Napoleon III into Mexico, will raise an army, funded, trained, equipped and commanded by the French bent on the reversing the Mexican war losses to the USA.
4. ATL French Army OAB of 1867
Commander in Chief: Emperor Napoléon III
Chief of Staff: Marshal Edmond Le Bœuf
Imperial Guard Corps (Garde impériale) : Gen. Charles Denis Bourbaki
1st Infantry Division : Gen. Édouard-Jean-Étienne Deligny
1st Brigade : Gen. Auguste Henri Brincourt
1st Voltigeurs of the Guard
2nd Voltigeurs of the Guard
Chasseurs of the Guard
2nd Brigade : Gen. Garnier
3rd Voltigueurs of the Guard
4th Voltigueurs of the Guard
1st Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Gerbaut
2 Guard Foot batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Guard Mitrailleuse battery
3rd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
2nd Infantry Division : Gen. Joseph Alexandre Picard
1st Brigade : Gen. Pierre Joseph Jeanningros
Zouaves of the Guard
1st Grenadiers of the Guard
2nd Brigade : Gen. Le Poittetin de la Croix
2nd Grenadiers of the Guard
3rd Grenadiers of the Guard
2nd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. de Cevilly
2 Guard Foot Artillery batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Guard Mitrailleuse battery
3rd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
Cavalry Division : Gen. Desvaux
1st Brigade : Gen. Halna du Fretay
Guides
Chasseurs of the Guard
2nd Brigade : Gen. De France
Lancers of the Guard
Dragoons of the Guard
3rd Brigade : Gen. du Preuil
Cuirassiers of the Guard
Carabiniers of the Guard
2 Horse Artillery batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1st Corps (1er corps) : Marshal Patrice de MacMahon
1st Infantry Division : Gen. Auguste-Alexandre Ducrot
1st Brigade : Gen. Wolff
18th Line Infantry Regiment
96th Line Infantry Regiment
13th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Postis du Houlbec
45th Line Infantry Regiment
1st Regiment of Zouaves
1st Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Lecoeutre
2 Foot Artillery batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
1st Engineer Regiment (1 company)
2nd Infantry Division : Gen. Abel Douay
1st Brigade : Gen. Pelletier de Montmarie
50th Line Infantry Regiment
74th Line Infantry Regiment
16th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Pelle
78th Line Infantry Regiment
1st Regiment of Turcos
2nd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Cauvet
2 Foot Artillery batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
1st Engineer Regiment (1 company)
3rd Infantry Division : Gen. Raoult
1st Brigade : Gen. L'Heriller
2nd Zouave Regiment
36th Line Infantry Regiment
8th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Lefebvre
2nd Regiment of Turcos
48th Line Infantry Regiment
3rd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Cheguillaume
2 Foot Artillery batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
1st Engineer Regiment (1 company)
4th Infantry Division : Gen. Lartigue
1st Brigade : Gen. Fraboulet de Kerleade
3rd Zouave Regiment
56th Line Infantry Regiment
1st Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Charles Nicolas Lacretelle
3rd Regiment of Turcos
87th Line Infantry Regiment
4th Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Lamande
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4 pdr guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
1st Engineer Regiment (1 company)
Cavalry Division : Gen. Duhesme
1st Brigade : Gen. de Septeuil
3rd Hussar Regiment
11th Chasseur Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Nansouty
2nd Lancer Regiment
3rd Lancer Regiment
10th Dragoon Regiment
3rd Brigade : Gen. Michel
8th Cuirassiers Regiment
9th Cuirassiers Regiment
Reserve Artillery : Col. de Vassart
2 Foot batteries (4-pdr. guns)
2 Foot batteries (12-pdr. guns)
4 Horse Artillery batteries
1st Engineer Regiment (1 company)
2nd Corps (2e corps) : Gen. Charles Auguste Frossard
1st Infantry Division : Gen. Verge
1st Brigade : Gen. Letellier Valaze
32nd Line Infantry Regiment
55th Line Infantry Regiment
3rd Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Jolivet
76th Line Infantry Regiment
77th Line Infantry Regiment
1st Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Chavaudret
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
3rd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
2nd Infantry Division : Gen. Henri Jules Bataille
1st Brigade : Gen. Pouget
8th Line Infantry Regiment
23rd Line Infantry Regiment
12th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Fauvart-Bastoul
66th Line Infantry Regiment
67th Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. de Maintenant
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
3rd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
3rd Infantry Division : Gen. Jules de Laveaucoupet
1st Brigade : Gen. Doens
2nd Line Infantry Regiment
63rd Line Infantry Regiment
10th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Michelet
24th Line Infantry Regiment
40th Line Infantry Regiment
3rd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Larrogue
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
3rd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
Cavalry Division : Gen. Marmier
1st Brigade : Gen. de Valabregue
4th Chasseur Regiment
5th Chasseur Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. Bachelier
7th Dragoon Regiment
12th Dragoon Regiment
Reserve Artillery : Col. Beaudouin
2 Foot batteries (4-pdr. guns)
2 Foot batteries (12-pdr. guns)
4 Horse Artillery batteries
3rd Engineer Regiment (2 companies)
3rd Corps (3e corps) : Marshal Achille Bazaine
1st Infantry Division
1st Brigade : Gen. Montaudon
51st Line Infantry Regiment
62nd Line Infantry Regiment
18th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Justin Clinchant
81st Line Infantry Regiment
95th Line Infantry Regiment
1st Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Fourgous
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
2nd Infantry Division : Gen. Armand Alexandre de Castagny
1st Brigade : Gen. Nayral
19th Line Infantry Regiment
41st Line Infantry Regiment
15th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Duplessis
69th Line Infantry Regiment
90th Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Delange
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
1st Engineer Regiment (1 company)
3rd Infantry Division : Gen. Metman
1st Brigade : Gen. de Potier
7th Line Infantry Regiment
29th Line Infantry Regiment
7th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Eugène Arnaudeau
59th Line Infantry Regiment
71st Line Infantry Regiment
3rd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Sempe
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
1st Engineer Regiment (1 company)
4th Infantry Division : Gen. Claude Théodore Decaen
1st Brigade : Gen. de Brauer
44th Line Infantry Regiment
60th Line Infantry Regiment
11th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Sanle-Ferriere
80th Line Infantry Regiment
85th Line Infantry Regiment
4th Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Maucoutant
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
1st Engineer Regiment (1 company)
Cavalry Division : Gen. de Cleraembault
1st Brigade : Gen. de Bruchard
2nd Chasseur Regiment
3rd Chasseur Regiment
10th Chasseur Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. Maubranches
2nd Dragoon Regiment
4th Dragoon Regiment
3rd Brigade : Baron de Juniac
5th Dragoon Regiment
8th Dragoon Regiment
Reserve Artillery : Col. de Lajaille
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
2 Foot Artilley batteries (12-pdr. guns)
4 Horse Artillery batteries
2nd Engineer Regiment (1 and 1/2 companies)
4th Corps (4e corps) : Gen. Paul de Ladmirault
1st Infantry Division : Gen. Ernest Courtot de Cissey
1st Brigade : Gen. Count Brayer
1st Line Infantry Regiment
6th Line Infantry
20th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Golberg
57th Line Infantry Regiment
73rd Line Infantry Regiment
1st Division Artillery : Lt. Col. de Narp
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
2nd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
2nd Infantry Division : Gen. Grenier
1st Brigade : Gen. Bellecourt
13th Line Infantry Regiment
43rd Line Infantry Regiment
5th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Pradier
64th Line Infantry Regiment
98th Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. de Larminat
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
2nd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
3rd Infantry Division : Gen. Count Latrille de Lorencez
1st Brigade : Gen. Pajol
15th Line Infantry Regiment
33rd Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Berger
54th Line Infantry Regiment
65th Line Infantry Regiment
3rd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Legardeur
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
2nd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
Cavalry Division : Gen. Legrand
1st Brigade : Gen. de Montaigu
2nd Hussar Regiment
7th Hussar Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Gondrecourt
3rd Dragoon Regiment
11th Dragoon Regiment
Reserve Artillery : Col. de Solille
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
2 Foot Artilley batteries (12-pdr. guns)
4 Horse Artillery batteries
2nd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
5th Corps (5e corps) : Gen. Pierre Louis Charles de Failly
1st Infantry Division : Gen. Goze
1st Brigade : Gen. Grenier
11th Line Infantry Regiment
46th Line Infantry Regiment
4th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Nicolas
61st Line Infantry Regiment
86th Line Infantry Regiment
1st Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
2nd Infantry Division : Gen. de l'Abadie d'Aydroin
1st Brigade : Gen. Lapasset
49th Line Infantry Regiment
84th Line Infantry Regiment
14th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Maussion
88th Line Infantry Regiment
97th Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
3rd Infantry Division : Gen. Guyot de Lespart
1st Brigade : Gen. Abbatucci
17th Line Infantry Regiment
27th Line Infantry Regiment
19th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Fontanges de Couzan
30th Line Infantry Regiment
68th Line Infantry Regiment
3rd Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
Cavalry Division : Gen. Brahaut
1st Brigade : Gen. Pierre de Bernis
5th Chasseur Regiment
12th Chasseur Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. de la Mortière
3rd Lancer Regiment
5th Lancer Regiment
Cavalry Division Artillery
1 Horse Artillery battery
Reserve Artillery : Col. de Salignac-Fénelon
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
2 Foot Artilley batteries (12-pdr. guns)
2 Horse Artillery batteries
6th Corps (6e corps) : Marshal François Certain Canrobert
1st Infantry Division : Gen. Tixier
1st Brigade : Gen. Péchot
4th Line Infantry Regiment
10th Line Infantry Regiment
9th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Le Roy de Dais
12th Line Infantry Regiment
100th Line Infantry Regiment
1st Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
2nd Infantry Division : Gen. Bisson
1st Brigade : Gen. Noël
9th Line Infantry Regiment
14th Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. Maurice
20th Line Infantry Regiment
30th Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
3rd Infantry Division : Gen. La Font de Villiers
1st Brigade : Gen. Becquet de Sonnay
75th Line Infantry Regiment
91st Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. Colin
93rd Line Infantry Regiment
3rd Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
4th Infantry Division : Gen. Levassor-Sorval
1st Brigade : Gen. Julius Richardson de Marguenat
25th Line Infantry Regiment
26th Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Chanaleilles
28th Line Infantry Regiment
70th Line Infantry Regiment
4th Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
Cavalry Division : Gen. de Salignac-Fénelon
1st Brigade : Gen. Tilliard
1st Hussar Regiment
6th Chasseur Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. Savaresse
1st Lancer Regiment
7th Lancer Regiment
3rd Brigade : Gen. de Béville
5th Cuirassier Regiment
6th Cuirassier regiment
Cavalry Division Artillery
2 Horse Artillery batteries
Reserve Artillery : Col. de Montluisant
2 4-pounder batteries
2 12-pounder batteries
4 Horse Artillery batteries
7th Corps (7e corps) : Gen. Félix Charles Douay
1st Infantry Division : Gen. Conseil-Dumesnil
1st Brigade : Gen. Le Norman de Bretteville
3rd Line Infantry Regiment
21st Line Infantry Regiment
17th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Maire
47th Line Infantry Regiment
99th Line Infantry Regiment
1st Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse batteries
2nd Infantry Division : Gen. Liébert
1st Brigade : Gen. Guiomar
5th Line Infantry Regiment
37th Line Infantry Regiment
6th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. de la Bastide
53rd Line Infantry Regiment
89th Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
3rd Infantry Division : Gen. Dumont
1st Brigade : Gen. Bordas
52nd Line Infantry Regiment
72nd Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. Bittard des Portes
82nd Line Infantry Regiment
83rd Line Infantry Regiment
3rd Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
Cavalry Division : Gen. Ameil
1st Brigade : Gen. Cambriel
4th Hussar Regiment
4th Lancer Regiment
8th Lancer Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. Jolif du Coulombier
6th Hussar Regiment
6th Dragoon Regiment
Cavalry Division Artillery
1 Horse Artillery battery
Reserve Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
2 12-pounder batteries
2 Horse Artillery batteries
Cavalry Reserve Corps (Corps de réserve de cavalerie)
1st Division : Gen. du Barrail
1st Brigade : Gen. Jean Auguste Margueritte
1st Chasseurs d'Afrique
3rd Chasseurs d'Afrique
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Lajaille
2nd Chasseurs d'Afrique
4th Chasseurs d'Afrique
1st Division Artillery
2 Horse Artillery batteries
2nd Division : Gen. de Bonnemains
1st Brigade : Gen. Girard
1st Cuirassier Regiment
2nd Cuirassier Regiment
2nd Brigade (?)
3rd Cuirassier Regiment
4th Cuirassier Regiment
2nd Division Artillery
2 Horse Artillery batteries
3rd Division : Gen. Marquis de Forton
1st Brigade : Gen. Prince Joachim Murat
1st Dragoon Regiment
9th Dragoon Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Grammont
7th Cuirassier Regiment
10th Cuirassier Regiment
3rd Division Artillery
2 Horse Artillery batteries
Artillery Reserve : Gen. Cann
13th Field-Artillery Regiment
8 12-pounder batteries
18th Field-Artillery Regiment
8 horse artillery batteries
3 mountain batteries
French Infantry divisions were square divisions, with two infantry brigades of two infantry regiments each. Generally, one brigade per division also had a light infantry (chasseur) battalion. French cavalry divisions were also generally square, with two brigades of two regiments each, but the cavalry divisions of the Imperial Guard Corps, the 1st Corps, and the 6th Corps had three brigades.
French Army fielded roughly 350,000 soldiers, 4,000 Cavalry, 700 field Guns.
CO for the LA Purchase Expedition of Five Corps 200,000 soldiers, 2,000 horsemen and 312 guns, consisted of the I Corps, led by Achille Baraguey d'Hilliers; the II Corps, led by Patrice de MacMahon; the III Corps, led by François Certain de Canrobert, the IV Corps; led by Adolphe Niel, and the V Corps, led by prince Napoléon Joseph Charles Paul Bonaparte. The Imperial Guard was commanded by Auguste Regnaud de Saint-Jean d'Angély.
The question I ask is am going too far? Me thinks I am not going far enough.  |
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Feb 28, 2024 16:41:07 GMT
Max what does ASBish mean? Senior Chief, ASB means, "Alien space bats, "a neologism for plot devices used in alternate history to mean an implausible point of divergen
After all this is an ATL and this is what you folks have to endure for welcoming onto this great site.  |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 28, 2024 16:47:35 GMT
Senior Chief, ASB means, "Alien space bats, "a neologism for plot devices used in alternate history to mean an implausible point of divergen
After all this is an ATL and this is what you folks have to endure for welcoming onto this great site. Well i have read a book in where Napoleon I escapes again, this time from St. Helena and takes charge in getting Texas independent, so why not have his nephew buy ore take back Louisiana. |
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575
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There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Feb 28, 2024 20:49:52 GMT
The French debacle in Mexico will need much more troops to have a go at Louisiane - I don't think Britain will be that happy about French power projection into the Americas nor will certainly the USA. Don't expect the CSA to like very much having to let go of Louisiana and Arkansas and the Texans will surely question their fate.
Let's have a look at it.
ATL leading top to the 1867.
1. Bismarck will not unify Germany under Prussia until after 1880. How? After a brief flirtation with revolution in 1848, the Austrians restored order and the status quo, humiliating Prussia in the process. Von Bismarck will not be appointed Minister-President of that country in 1870, at which time he will restore Prussia as a great European power by significantly enlarging the Prussian Army, destroyed by the Austrians in 1848.
2. Austria will contribute a full Corps to gain booty and to repay France for her support in 18948 that almost strangled Prussia in her cradle.
3. Poor Jaurez will be killed this depriving the opposition of its key leader. The opposition to A French controlled Mexico will disappear as the Conservatives faction, that brought Napoleon III into Mexico, will raise an army, funded, trained, equipped and commanded by the French bent on the reversing the Mexican war losses to the USA.
4. ATL French Army OAB of 1867
Commander in Chief: Emperor Napoléon III
Chief of Staff: Marshal Edmond Le Bœuf
Imperial Guard Corps (Garde impériale) : Gen. Charles Denis Bourbaki
1st Infantry Division : Gen. Édouard-Jean-Étienne Deligny
1st Brigade : Gen. Auguste Henri Brincourt
1st Voltigeurs of the Guard
2nd Voltigeurs of the Guard
Chasseurs of the Guard
2nd Brigade : Gen. Garnier
3rd Voltigueurs of the Guard
4th Voltigueurs of the Guard
1st Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Gerbaut
2 Guard Foot batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Guard Mitrailleuse battery
3rd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
2nd Infantry Division : Gen. Joseph Alexandre Picard
1st Brigade : Gen. Pierre Joseph Jeanningros
Zouaves of the Guard
1st Grenadiers of the Guard
2nd Brigade : Gen. Le Poittetin de la Croix
2nd Grenadiers of the Guard
3rd Grenadiers of the Guard
2nd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. de Cevilly
2 Guard Foot Artillery batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Guard Mitrailleuse battery
3rd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
Cavalry Division : Gen. Desvaux
1st Brigade : Gen. Halna du Fretay
Guides
Chasseurs of the Guard
2nd Brigade : Gen. De France
Lancers of the Guard
Dragoons of the Guard
3rd Brigade : Gen. du Preuil
Cuirassiers of the Guard
Carabiniers of the Guard
2 Horse Artillery batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1st Corps (1er corps) : Marshal Patrice de MacMahon
1st Infantry Division : Gen. Auguste-Alexandre Ducrot
1st Brigade : Gen. Wolff
18th Line Infantry Regiment
96th Line Infantry Regiment
13th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Postis du Houlbec
45th Line Infantry Regiment
1st Regiment of Zouaves
1st Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Lecoeutre
2 Foot Artillery batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
1st Engineer Regiment (1 company)
2nd Infantry Division : Gen. Abel Douay
1st Brigade : Gen. Pelletier de Montmarie
50th Line Infantry Regiment
74th Line Infantry Regiment
16th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Pelle
78th Line Infantry Regiment
1st Regiment of Turcos
2nd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Cauvet
2 Foot Artillery batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
1st Engineer Regiment (1 company)
3rd Infantry Division : Gen. Raoult
1st Brigade : Gen. L'Heriller
2nd Zouave Regiment
36th Line Infantry Regiment
8th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Lefebvre
2nd Regiment of Turcos
48th Line Infantry Regiment
3rd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Cheguillaume
2 Foot Artillery batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
1st Engineer Regiment (1 company)
4th Infantry Division : Gen. Lartigue
1st Brigade : Gen. Fraboulet de Kerleade
3rd Zouave Regiment
56th Line Infantry Regiment
1st Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Charles Nicolas Lacretelle
3rd Regiment of Turcos
87th Line Infantry Regiment
4th Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Lamande
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4 pdr guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
1st Engineer Regiment (1 company)
Cavalry Division : Gen. Duhesme
1st Brigade : Gen. de Septeuil
3rd Hussar Regiment
11th Chasseur Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Nansouty
2nd Lancer Regiment
3rd Lancer Regiment
10th Dragoon Regiment
3rd Brigade : Gen. Michel
8th Cuirassiers Regiment
9th Cuirassiers Regiment
Reserve Artillery : Col. de Vassart
2 Foot batteries (4-pdr. guns)
2 Foot batteries (12-pdr. guns)
4 Horse Artillery batteries
1st Engineer Regiment (1 company)
2nd Corps (2e corps) : Gen. Charles Auguste Frossard
1st Infantry Division : Gen. Verge
1st Brigade : Gen. Letellier Valaze
32nd Line Infantry Regiment
55th Line Infantry Regiment
3rd Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Jolivet
76th Line Infantry Regiment
77th Line Infantry Regiment
1st Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Chavaudret
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
3rd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
2nd Infantry Division : Gen. Henri Jules Bataille
1st Brigade : Gen. Pouget
8th Line Infantry Regiment
23rd Line Infantry Regiment
12th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Fauvart-Bastoul
66th Line Infantry Regiment
67th Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. de Maintenant
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
3rd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
3rd Infantry Division : Gen. Jules de Laveaucoupet
1st Brigade : Gen. Doens
2nd Line Infantry Regiment
63rd Line Infantry Regiment
10th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Michelet
24th Line Infantry Regiment
40th Line Infantry Regiment
3rd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Larrogue
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
3rd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
Cavalry Division : Gen. Marmier
1st Brigade : Gen. de Valabregue
4th Chasseur Regiment
5th Chasseur Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. Bachelier
7th Dragoon Regiment
12th Dragoon Regiment
Reserve Artillery : Col. Beaudouin
2 Foot batteries (4-pdr. guns)
2 Foot batteries (12-pdr. guns)
4 Horse Artillery batteries
3rd Engineer Regiment (2 companies)
3rd Corps (3e corps) : Marshal Achille Bazaine
1st Infantry Division
1st Brigade : Gen. Montaudon
51st Line Infantry Regiment
62nd Line Infantry Regiment
18th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Justin Clinchant
81st Line Infantry Regiment
95th Line Infantry Regiment
1st Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Fourgous
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
2nd Infantry Division : Gen. Armand Alexandre de Castagny
1st Brigade : Gen. Nayral
19th Line Infantry Regiment
41st Line Infantry Regiment
15th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Duplessis
69th Line Infantry Regiment
90th Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Delange
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
1st Engineer Regiment (1 company)
3rd Infantry Division : Gen. Metman
1st Brigade : Gen. de Potier
7th Line Infantry Regiment
29th Line Infantry Regiment
7th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Eugène Arnaudeau
59th Line Infantry Regiment
71st Line Infantry Regiment
3rd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Sempe
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
1st Engineer Regiment (1 company)
4th Infantry Division : Gen. Claude Théodore Decaen
1st Brigade : Gen. de Brauer
44th Line Infantry Regiment
60th Line Infantry Regiment
11th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Sanle-Ferriere
80th Line Infantry Regiment
85th Line Infantry Regiment
4th Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Maucoutant
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
1st Engineer Regiment (1 company)
Cavalry Division : Gen. de Cleraembault
1st Brigade : Gen. de Bruchard
2nd Chasseur Regiment
3rd Chasseur Regiment
10th Chasseur Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. Maubranches
2nd Dragoon Regiment
4th Dragoon Regiment
3rd Brigade : Baron de Juniac
5th Dragoon Regiment
8th Dragoon Regiment
Reserve Artillery : Col. de Lajaille
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
2 Foot Artilley batteries (12-pdr. guns)
4 Horse Artillery batteries
2nd Engineer Regiment (1 and 1/2 companies)
4th Corps (4e corps) : Gen. Paul de Ladmirault
1st Infantry Division : Gen. Ernest Courtot de Cissey
1st Brigade : Gen. Count Brayer
1st Line Infantry Regiment
6th Line Infantry
20th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Golberg
57th Line Infantry Regiment
73rd Line Infantry Regiment
1st Division Artillery : Lt. Col. de Narp
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
2nd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
2nd Infantry Division : Gen. Grenier
1st Brigade : Gen. Bellecourt
13th Line Infantry Regiment
43rd Line Infantry Regiment
5th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Pradier
64th Line Infantry Regiment
98th Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. de Larminat
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
2nd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
3rd Infantry Division : Gen. Count Latrille de Lorencez
1st Brigade : Gen. Pajol
15th Line Infantry Regiment
33rd Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Berger
54th Line Infantry Regiment
65th Line Infantry Regiment
3rd Division Artillery : Lt. Col. Legardeur
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
1 Mitrailleuse battery
2nd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
Cavalry Division : Gen. Legrand
1st Brigade : Gen. de Montaigu
2nd Hussar Regiment
7th Hussar Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Gondrecourt
3rd Dragoon Regiment
11th Dragoon Regiment
Reserve Artillery : Col. de Solille
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
2 Foot Artilley batteries (12-pdr. guns)
4 Horse Artillery batteries
2nd Engineer Regiment (1 company)
5th Corps (5e corps) : Gen. Pierre Louis Charles de Failly
1st Infantry Division : Gen. Goze
1st Brigade : Gen. Grenier
11th Line Infantry Regiment
46th Line Infantry Regiment
4th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Nicolas
61st Line Infantry Regiment
86th Line Infantry Regiment
1st Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
2nd Infantry Division : Gen. de l'Abadie d'Aydroin
1st Brigade : Gen. Lapasset
49th Line Infantry Regiment
84th Line Infantry Regiment
14th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Maussion
88th Line Infantry Regiment
97th Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
3rd Infantry Division : Gen. Guyot de Lespart
1st Brigade : Gen. Abbatucci
17th Line Infantry Regiment
27th Line Infantry Regiment
19th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Fontanges de Couzan
30th Line Infantry Regiment
68th Line Infantry Regiment
3rd Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
Cavalry Division : Gen. Brahaut
1st Brigade : Gen. Pierre de Bernis
5th Chasseur Regiment
12th Chasseur Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. de la Mortière
3rd Lancer Regiment
5th Lancer Regiment
Cavalry Division Artillery
1 Horse Artillery battery
Reserve Artillery : Col. de Salignac-Fénelon
2 Foot Artilley batteries (4-pdr. guns)
2 Foot Artilley batteries (12-pdr. guns)
2 Horse Artillery batteries
6th Corps (6e corps) : Marshal François Certain Canrobert
1st Infantry Division : Gen. Tixier
1st Brigade : Gen. Péchot
4th Line Infantry Regiment
10th Line Infantry Regiment
9th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Le Roy de Dais
12th Line Infantry Regiment
100th Line Infantry Regiment
1st Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
2nd Infantry Division : Gen. Bisson
1st Brigade : Gen. Noël
9th Line Infantry Regiment
14th Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. Maurice
20th Line Infantry Regiment
30th Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
3rd Infantry Division : Gen. La Font de Villiers
1st Brigade : Gen. Becquet de Sonnay
75th Line Infantry Regiment
91st Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. Colin
93rd Line Infantry Regiment
3rd Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
4th Infantry Division : Gen. Levassor-Sorval
1st Brigade : Gen. Julius Richardson de Marguenat
25th Line Infantry Regiment
26th Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Chanaleilles
28th Line Infantry Regiment
70th Line Infantry Regiment
4th Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
Cavalry Division : Gen. de Salignac-Fénelon
1st Brigade : Gen. Tilliard
1st Hussar Regiment
6th Chasseur Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. Savaresse
1st Lancer Regiment
7th Lancer Regiment
3rd Brigade : Gen. de Béville
5th Cuirassier Regiment
6th Cuirassier regiment
Cavalry Division Artillery
2 Horse Artillery batteries
Reserve Artillery : Col. de Montluisant
2 4-pounder batteries
2 12-pounder batteries
4 Horse Artillery batteries
7th Corps (7e corps) : Gen. Félix Charles Douay
1st Infantry Division : Gen. Conseil-Dumesnil
1st Brigade : Gen. Le Norman de Bretteville
3rd Line Infantry Regiment
21st Line Infantry Regiment
17th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. Maire
47th Line Infantry Regiment
99th Line Infantry Regiment
1st Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse batteries
2nd Infantry Division : Gen. Liébert
1st Brigade : Gen. Guiomar
5th Line Infantry Regiment
37th Line Infantry Regiment
6th Chasseur Battalion
2nd Brigade : Gen. de la Bastide
53rd Line Infantry Regiment
89th Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
3rd Infantry Division : Gen. Dumont
1st Brigade : Gen. Bordas
52nd Line Infantry Regiment
72nd Line Infantry Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. Bittard des Portes
82nd Line Infantry Regiment
83rd Line Infantry Regiment
3rd Division Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
1 Mitrailleuse battery
Cavalry Division : Gen. Ameil
1st Brigade : Gen. Cambriel
4th Hussar Regiment
4th Lancer Regiment
8th Lancer Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. Jolif du Coulombier
6th Hussar Regiment
6th Dragoon Regiment
Cavalry Division Artillery
1 Horse Artillery battery
Reserve Artillery
2 4-pounder batteries
2 12-pounder batteries
2 Horse Artillery batteries
Cavalry Reserve Corps (Corps de réserve de cavalerie)
1st Division : Gen. du Barrail
1st Brigade : Gen. Jean Auguste Margueritte
1st Chasseurs d'Afrique
3rd Chasseurs d'Afrique
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Lajaille
2nd Chasseurs d'Afrique
4th Chasseurs d'Afrique
1st Division Artillery
2 Horse Artillery batteries
2nd Division : Gen. de Bonnemains
1st Brigade : Gen. Girard
1st Cuirassier Regiment
2nd Cuirassier Regiment
2nd Brigade (?)
3rd Cuirassier Regiment
4th Cuirassier Regiment
2nd Division Artillery
2 Horse Artillery batteries
3rd Division : Gen. Marquis de Forton
1st Brigade : Gen. Prince Joachim Murat
1st Dragoon Regiment
9th Dragoon Regiment
2nd Brigade : Gen. de Grammont
7th Cuirassier Regiment
10th Cuirassier Regiment
3rd Division Artillery
2 Horse Artillery batteries
Artillery Reserve : Gen. Cann
13th Field-Artillery Regiment
8 12-pounder batteries
18th Field-Artillery Regiment
8 horse artillery batteries
3 mountain batteries
French Infantry divisions were square divisions, with two infantry brigades of two infantry regiments each. Generally, one brigade per division also had a light infantry (chasseur) battalion. French cavalry divisions were also generally square, with two brigades of two regiments each, but the cavalry divisions of the Imperial Guard Corps, the 1st Corps, and the 6th Corps had three brigades.
French Army fielded roughly 350,000 soldiers, 4,000 Cavalry, 700 field Guns.
CO for the LA Purchase Expedition of Five Corps 200,000 soldiers, 2,000 horsemen and 312 guns, consisted of the I Corps, led by Achille Baraguey d'Hilliers; the II Corps, led by Patrice de MacMahon; the III Corps, led by François Certain de Canrobert, the IV Corps; led by Adolphe Niel, and the V Corps, led by prince Napoléon Joseph Charles Paul Bonaparte. The Imperial Guard was commanded by Auguste Regnaud de Saint-Jean d'Angély.
The question I ask is am going too far? Me thinks I am not going far enough. So Austria defeat Prussia 1848 - very interesting; then no 1. Schleswig War I presume? And no Franco-Austrian War in Northern Italy.
8 French and 1 Austrian Corps in Mexico along the OTL Belgian Brigade and Mexicans - quite a force to be reckoned with.
Veery interesting - looking forward for more! |
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oscssw
Senior chief petty officer
Posts: 955
Likes: 1,557
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Post by oscssw on Mar 24, 2024 11:39:21 GMT
My good friend The Rock, FWIW, in what passes for my single malt marinated mind "Implausible" does not mean "impossible". See the AOBs I will work with. Note French and Austrian forces and units actually existed in 1870. I think it is a very minor point to have them available three years earlier. But that'd just me I'm funny that way.
After all this is an ATL and this is what you folks have to endure for welcoming onto this great site. Well i have read a book in where Napoleon I escapes again, this time from St. Helena and takes charge in getting Texas independent, so why not have his nephew buy ore take back Louisiana.
BK. BK
Just back from a month ion Naples Florida. Beats the hell out of Massachusetts late February mid March.
Hope all is well by my friends here. |
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lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 64,800
Likes: 45,931
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Post by lordroel on Mar 24, 2024 11:47:42 GMT
Well i have read a book in where Napoleon I escapes again, this time from St. Helena and takes charge in getting Texas independent, so why not have his nephew buy ore take back Louisiana.
BK. BK
Just back from a month ion Naples Florida. Beats the hell out of Massachusetts late February mid March.
Hope all is well by my friends here.Here you go Senior Chief.  |
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Post by Max Sinister on Mar 27, 2024 19:13:48 GMT
Sorry oscssw, Bismarck was appointed minister president of Prussia as early as 1861. |
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oscssw
Senior chief petty officer
Posts: 955
Likes: 1,557
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Post by oscssw on Apr 5, 2024 15:08:37 GMT
Sorry oscssw , Bismarck was appointed minister president of Prussia as early as 1861.  |
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