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Post by lukedalton on Feb 12, 2018 21:09:05 GMT
Neat...and yes with that color the name is really appropriate
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 12, 2018 21:09:48 GMT
Neat...and yes with that color the name is really appropriate And a deathtrap also.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 0:04:53 GMT
A not so friendly alien space bat using his power delays world War II until September 1st 1940 when Germany invades Poland This will retard development of the P-51 Mustang, if not butterfly it completely. The P-51 was only designed due to an British Purchasing Commission contract, that would not occur in 1940. It would also mean Fw190s would be available to fight the 1941 Battle of Britain
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 13, 2018 4:19:30 GMT
A not so friendly alien space bat using his power delays world War II until September 1st 1940 when Germany invades Poland This will retard development of the P-51 Mustang, if not butterfly it completely. The P-51 was only designed due to an British Purchasing Commission contract, that would not occur in 1940. It would also mean Fw190s would be available to fight the 1941 Battle of Britain Also a lot more Hurricanes and Spitfires to counter them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 8:46:24 GMT
Which will be completely outclassed by the FW190.
There are no recorded instances of a Hurricane shoot down a 190, that I know of.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 13, 2018 9:42:40 GMT
Which will be completely outclassed by the FW190. There are no recorded instances of a Hurricane shoot down a 190, that I know of. But in turn the RAF will have the Spitfire Mk IX.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 11:19:45 GMT
The Spitfire IX entered service in late 1942, the Spitfire V was outclassed by the FW190A and the Bf109F
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Post by lordroel on Feb 13, 2018 11:21:27 GMT
The Spitfire IX entered service in late 1942, the Spitfire V was outclassed by the FW190A and the Bf109F So nothing the RAF has to outfight the Germans with.
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Post by stevep on Feb 13, 2018 11:29:42 GMT
If there is a BoB. The additional year to catch up with German rearament and the problems the German economy has without further quick conquests you may avoid the fall of France altogether.
Plus even if France still falls Britain will have a stronger position at sea. Especially in production of escort vessels that would make the Battle of the Atlantic somewhat better for them. [Working on the assumption that Hitler continues to support large capital ships more than subs and especially if he wastes more resources on the Graz Zeppelin and the H class Bismarck follow ones. ]
Definitely agree that the P-51 is likely not to appear in TTL. Both because the British are unlikely to make the order in the 1st place and even if the US produces such a design if it has the historical engine that's unlikely to be upgraded to a Merlin so its performance will be poor.
A lot of course will depend on who takes over in Britain once Chamberlain dies and that's difficult to see. Almost certainly won't be Churchill, although if war follows on quickly from Chamberlain's death he could get a promotion then. Doubt it would be Halifax either given his status as a peer but not sure who else might be in the running in those circumstances.
Plus, you might just see one of the many assassination attempts on Hitler actually succeed which would release a hell of a lot of mammoth sized butterflies.
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Post by lordroel on Feb 13, 2018 19:00:53 GMT
If there is a BoB. The additional year to catch up with German rearament and the problems the German economy has without further quick conquests you may avoid the fall of France altogether. Plus even if France still falls Britain will have a stronger position at sea. Especially in production of escort vessels that would make the Battle of the Atlantic somewhat better for them. [Working on the assumption that Hitler continues to support large capital ships more than subs and especially if he wastes more resources on the Graz Zeppelin and the H class Bismarck follow ones. ] Definitely agree that the P-51 is likely not to appear in TTL. Both because the British are unlikely to make the order in the 1st place and even if the US produces such a design if it has the historical engine that's unlikely to be upgraded to a Merlin so its performance will be poor. A lot of course will depend on who takes over in Britain once Chamberlain dies and that's difficult to see. Almost certainly won't be Churchill, although if war follows on quickly from Chamberlain's death he could get a promotion then. Doubt it would be Halifax either given his status as a peer but not sure who else might be in the running in those circumstances. Plus, you might just see one of the many assassination attempts on Hitler actually succeed which would release a hell of a lot of mammoth sized butterflies. So a much more bloodier BoB than then OTL.
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Post by stevep on Feb 13, 2018 21:37:13 GMT
If there is a BoB. The additional year to catch up with German rearament and the problems the German economy has without further quick conquests you may avoid the fall of France altogether. Plus even if France still falls Britain will have a stronger position at sea. Especially in production of escort vessels that would make the Battle of the Atlantic somewhat better for them. [Working on the assumption that Hitler continues to support large capital ships more than subs and especially if he wastes more resources on the Graz Zeppelin and the H class Bismarck follow ones. ] Definitely agree that the P-51 is likely not to appear in TTL. Both because the British are unlikely to make the order in the 1st place and even if the US produces such a design if it has the historical engine that's unlikely to be upgraded to a Merlin so its performance will be poor. A lot of course will depend on who takes over in Britain once Chamberlain dies and that's difficult to see. Almost certainly won't be Churchill, although if war follows on quickly from Chamberlain's death he could get a promotion then. Doubt it would be Halifax either given his status as a peer but not sure who else might be in the running in those circumstances. Plus, you might just see one of the many assassination attempts on Hitler actually succeed which would release a hell of a lot of mammoth sized butterflies. So a much more bloodier BoB than then OTL. If it still occurs then quite possibly. There is likely to be larger and more advanced forces on both sides. The defenders should still win because of the advantages they have plus by that time the defensive installation is likely to be more complete and if the empire training programme is in place the RAF will be markedly better off for pilots. The Germans will still have to work from impromptu air bases in occupied France and unless they have massively enlarged their training programme they will be markedly weaker in terms of pilot numbers. [Which of course is especially bad when fighting over Britain as the RAF will get many of it downed pilots back unlike the Germans. Another big factor would be what happens with Stalin and the Soviets? If the alliance with Germany is delayed then until then the Red Army will be watching the Germans closely and will be being built up fairly rapidly as Russia finally comes out of the purge period. Its still going to be untested and likely to have unpleasant shocks when it attacks eastern Poland and also Finland, if that occurs. However in turn TTL Barbarossa won't occur until 42 so the Germans in turn could suffer some nasty shocks. The Red Army will have a lot more T-34s and other such equipment and won't be in the middle of a massive refit. The Germans will still have some dramatic successes but their likely to suffer markedly worse casualties even in that 1st campaign. This could mean that the war, although starting later could still end in about 45. Possibly with a more powerful position for the Soviets in Europe. The other factor of course is that while an additional year might give the IJN two additional CVs its going to give the USN a hell of a lot more. Japan could actually go down 1st in TTL although it could be a hell of a lot bloodier for both powers if it means a full on invasion of Japan rather than B-29 fire-bombing or nukes, as the latter especially is likely to be delayed.
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Post by lordroel on Feb 14, 2018 4:08:29 GMT
So a much more bloodier BoB than then OTL. The Red Army will have a lot more T-34s and other such equipment and won't be in the middle of a massive refit. And i wonder if the Panther and Tiger I and IIs will still be build.
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Post by stevep on Feb 14, 2018 9:30:52 GMT
The Red Army will have a lot more T-34s and other such equipment and won't be in the middle of a massive refit. And i wonder if the Panther and Tiger I and IIs will still be build. Very likely they, or something similar but as I understand it they were triggered largely by the clashes with the heavy Soviet tanks - including to some degree the well armoured T-34 which is basically a medium tank - so serious work on such designs is likely to be delayed by about a year. [Arguably improving the Panzer IV, along with a few heavy tank destroyers might be a better option as the big tanks were huge resource sinks and never really got the bugs out that effectively whereas the IVs and the TDs with decent training did manage the bulk of the armoured clashes quite well.] The heavies only really had a significant impact in the west where they proved somewhat more resistant to allied air power.
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