stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 28, 2023 9:08:42 GMT
Yes but how much of those pipelines and rigs have been brought along. If it was only the land territories and waters linking to islands like the Shetlands and Orkney's or even a 12 mile limit then those connections and facilities will be gone. If its the entire EEZ then it is a different matter.
That is my intention - and I didn't put any specific limits upon it!
Ah if you mean by that that the EEZ is included then that is a different matter.
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575
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Post by 575 on Sept 28, 2023 17:10:20 GMT
That is my intention - and I didn't put any specific limits upon it!
Ah if you mean by that that the EEZ is included then that is a different matter.
Indeed - I all the time intended this as from AHcom I understood that the pipeline(s) came ashore in Scotland.
More's to come.
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575
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Post by 575 on Oct 2, 2023 20:05:20 GMT
First decade Issues: (next will be events more on politics in that one - is beginning to take on a life of its own)
Europe – overland connect. Its doable in Central Europe though its a long way from Switzerland to Spain. Some boaters would try going up the Rhine to the Bodensee, Switzerland to establish contact. The Swiss hooked themselves up to the German Rhine River Traffic system being established. The early trips was quite exploratory as nobody really knew where the river had been going in this new World. The River was however navigable and the Swiss reassured they had reconnected to civilization.
Build some kind of supranational institution to link up Nations with trade and communications.
Danish Minority in Schleswig-Holstein may decide for exodus to Jutland.
Native Americans perhaps going into the Great unknown in the path of their Ancestors.
North Sea oil – Scotlands extracting, Sweden may want part of Norway to do so too and support the Danish Nation builders in Jutland in doing so too. Germany will want its share too. North Sea Council need be set up to finalize the rules.
A major problem is the lack of computerchips – most of the industry was in the China's but South Korea and the US States have been working to remedy the situation. Singapore's computer industry is eagerly wanting to step up production but still numbers of chips are low. Nobody have been having a new smartphone or laptop for years and a large industry of refurbishing have emerged. The lack of an Internet is a real bother as some industry tries building a new on phone networks but this is also lacking and really only working within some countries.
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575
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Post by 575 on Oct 4, 2023 13:37:39 GMT
Something just researched and written - should have preceeded prior post but here goes:
Armed Forces There had been some initial confusion in the partially ISOT Nations. Some time during the first weeks the Scots, Germans and US had been establishing their assets of military – better to plan for tomorrow than get surprised and mainly because of the local politicians – PM of Scotland, local German Länder governments and US Governors wanted to know the loyalty of such assets in this new situation
Scotland: Army, The Royal Regiment of Scotland: 2. Light Infantry, 3. Infantry, 6. Infantry, 7. Infantry Battalions, Balaklava Company of 5. Infantry Battalion, 32. Signals Regiment, Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, 23. SAS Reserve, 39., 71. Engineer Regiment, 51. MI Company, RAF: Lossiemouth Station – 4x Typhoon Sqd.s, 1 Maritime Recce. Sqd. Boeing Poseidon(737-800), RAF Regiment Sqd., Kirknewton Station – 661. Gliding Sqd. (don't laugh it may become important) RN: HMNB Clyde – 4 Vanguard class SSBN, 1 Trafalgar class SSN, 7? Astute class SSN, Minesweepers, Patrolboats and Commando Protection Unit, Diving Group, Training Unit, Armaments Depot at Coulport.
Germany – Saarland: 1 Airborne Brigade in Saarlouis, Sachsen: Heer/Army Training Command in Leipzig, practical training, Sachsen-Anhalt: 1. Logistics Regiment, Schleswig-Holstein: Navy/Marine Flotilla 1. - 5x Brauschweig class Corvettes, 6x 212 Class Submarines and Training Facility plus 5 Support Ships, Light Units, Operations Centre, Marine Special Forces 350 troops, Marine/Sea Battalioon 1100 troops, Navy NCO School - no numbers, Navy Medical School, Navy Damage Control Training, Technical Service Unit 71, Army 4. Coy/1. Jäger Regiment - Light Infantry only some 125 (guess) but real troops and light infantry consider themselves the BEST, 6. Reconnaisance Battalion - Bundeswehr real deal - Fennek Armoured Reconnaisance Vehicles and Airbus UAV, 164. Special Engineers Regiment which is training the Home Guard 2 Coy's each 150 troops? and work in fuellogistics such as pipelines as well as general logistics, 5. Coy/ 7. CW-protection Battalion - very specialist but still Army troops 911. EW Battalion - as above though mixed establishment Bundesluftwaffe: 51. Immelmann Group with 37 Tornadoes and 8 Heron UAVs - get some kit onto those to do recce missions, NCO School - no numbers,(I don't say they're as good as we were kicking the butt of the Reccesqn. of Guards Hussar Reg. back in 1981 AND it had Air Support!) but hey its an NCO School and those guys and girls will be MOTIVATED, AA Wing, Missiles, 26. AA Group, Missiles, 61. AA Group, MANTIS Ground Armoured Unit and Tracked Missile Unit. Two munitions depots - back in the day these were HUGE – probably still is destined to cater to German Danish Polish Corps; Medical Service, COMINT Unit.
USA – South Dakota: Ellsworth AFB, 28. Bomb Wing B-1B Lancer, 12. Air Division and 99. Strategic Weapons Wing training units, 89. Attack Sqd. MQ-9A Reaper, 114. Fighter Wing ANG F-16, Joe Foss ANG Station/Souix Falls Airport. Army National Guard Fort Meade, 196th Maneuver Enhancement Brigade – Artillery and support assets, 1x Beechcraft C-12 Huron, 196th Regiment – Training Institute, SD State Guard – inactive. South Carolina: Shaw AFB, 20. Fighter Wing 3 Sqd. F-16, 9. Air Force HQ, 25. Attack Group 2 Sqd. MQ-9A Reaper, Charleston Joint Base, USAF - 315., 437. Airlift Wing C-17, 5x Coast Guard Cutters, 2x Coast Guard Patrol Boats, US Army – Corps of Engineers, ANG – 218. Maneuver Enhancement Brigade, 118. Inf. Regiment – 2x Battalions, Support, Signals, Chemical, Transport Units, Marine Corps Reserve Center, USN – 1 Lafayette class 1 Daniel Webster class SSBM, 2 Los Angeles class SSN, Naval Operations Support Centre, EOD-unit, 6x Roll-on Roll-off Transports. Marine Corps – USMC Recruit Depot Parris Island, MCAirStation Beaufort/Fighter Town East Marine Air Group 31, 4x Attack Sqd. F/A-18, Attack Sqd. F-35. US Central Command, USAF, US Army, 16. Airforce – information warfare. US Army Ft. Jackson , 165. and 193. Brigades Basic Training Center, Drill Sergeant School, 81. Readiness Division HQ.
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575
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Post by 575 on Oct 6, 2023 10:46:45 GMT
First Decade events: Northern-Central Europe Scotland, Sweden, settler Denmark (Jutland) and Germany are working together on the North Sea oil and gas extraction – Scotland having the off-shore industry is the real leader in the endevour though Saarland is the producer along Sweden. Aluminium is imported from Surinam but all wants to buy and Surinam is working to enlarge its production. Surinam with US blessing have begun building a colony in Jamaica to extract Bauxite for the production. Spain initially wanted in on the North European group but the annexation of Gibraltar Rock annoyed some Scotsmen and also the US States as well as the Slovenians though the odd small Sudanese boat at times calling in at the Baleares were happy to see foreign faces. The case of the Slovenians wanting to cooperate with the North Europeans certainly the Germans but also the Swiss served to piss off the Serbs as well as Spanish. However the Spanish seemed to know quite some of what was going on in the Eastern Med due to its Navy having units there on mostly permanent station which made for much operational time for the Juan Carlos Amphibious Ship and its small Airgroup of AV-8s and Helicopters. Those Sudanese anchoring at the Baleares ofter would see Spanish Dassault Falcon 900 or Airbus 400's flying East to do reconnaisance over Syria. It had been the high-handed treatment of Gibraltar Strait by Spain which served to have the German Länder come closer to the Swiss and Slovenia, these almost German Slavs! The difficult thing would be tying Slovenia up with Switzerland or Sachsen though as all agreed to the mining of the Erzgebirge of southern Sachsen made for development of former Czech borderlands so doing this and build a road through Bohemia down south to the Danube – at which point the Swiss pointed to the much easier Po River Plain from the Western Slovene border to what had been Milan and then into the Alpes to Chiasso south of Lugano. Of course the last part would be the difficult one but the Swiss would of course throw everything in there and they DID have experience working in those mountains which were the lesser in that area and anyway the difficult part would be from Chiasso to the southern shore of Lake Como and then it would be a piece of cake to Milan. Said the Swiss. The Slovenes had also aired a concern about getting too close to the Slovak border in Bohemia so that settled the issue. For starters the Slovenes had already for some time been navigating the Po River from its mouth on the Adriatic up to the Lambro which then went almost up to San Bernardino. The river was quite different from what was known with the main channel being in some other channels partially but navigable by rivercraft. The Lambro would also be navigated up to the site of Milan. The Germans was sorry about the loss of Autobahn to Ljubljana but shrug their shoulders. The Slovenes had because of the navigation of River Po buildt a very small colony slightly inland from the mouth of the Po to secure themselves though only once had the Spanish Armada paid a visit to their port of Koper in Istria though occasional Spanish recce flight did occur. The Serbs had of course been moving into Kosovo – with no Kosovo State or IFOR it was no problem and the Serbs YEARNED for Kosovo Polje! Even the Slovaks were a little disturbed by this Serb activity. That the Slovaks began building a road into Bohemia didn't bother the Serbs as they expected their ally to just claiming that rich land. The Slovaks had an insurance in mind though Bohemia as such was nice to have though they entered in VERY secret negotiations with the German Länder about Bohemia. Just the first installment under the heading Still very much interested in feedback and ideas.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 6, 2023 14:13:10 GMT
First Decade events: Northern-Central Europe Scotland, Sweden, settler Denmark (Jutland) and Germany are working together on the North Sea oil and gas extraction – Scotland having the off-shore industry is the real leader in the endevour though Saarland is the producer along Sweden. Aluminium is imported from Surinam but all wants to buy and Surinam is working to enlarge its production. Surinam with US blessing have begun building a colony in Jamaica to extract Bauxite for the production. Spain initially wanted in on the North European group but the annexation of Gibraltar Rock annoyed some Scotsmen and also the US States as well as the Slovenians though the odd small Sudanese boat at times calling in at the Baleares were happy to see foreign faces. The case of the Slovenians wanting to cooperate with the North Europeans certainly the Germans but also the Swiss served to piss off the Serbs as well as Spanish. However the Spanish seemed to know quite some of what was going on in the Eastern Med due to its Navy having units there on mostly permanent station which made for much operational time for the Juan Carlos Amphibious Ship and its small Airgroup of AV-8s and Helicopters. Those Sudanese anchoring at the Baleares ofter would see Spanish Dassault Falcon 900 or Airbus 400's flying East to do reconnaisance over Syria. It had been the high-handed treatment of Gibraltar Strait by Spain which served to have the German Länder come closer to the Swiss and Slovenia, these almost German Slavs! The difficult thing would be tying Slovenia up with Switzerland or Sachsen though as all agreed to the mining of the Erzgebirge of southern Sachsen made for development of former Czech borderlands so doing this and build a road through Bohemia down south to the Danube – at which point the Swiss pointed to the much easier Po River Plain from the Western Slovene border to what had been Milan and then into the Alpes to Chiasso south of Lugano. Of course the last part would be the difficult one but the Swiss would of course throw everything in there and they DID have experience working in those mountains which were the lesser in that area and anyway the difficult part would be from Chiasso to the southern shore of Lake Como and then it would be a piece of cake to Milan. Said the Swiss. The Slovenes had also aired a concern about getting too close to the Slovak border in Bohemia so that settled the issue. For starters the Slovenes had already for some time been navigating the Po River from its mouth on the Adriatic up to the Lambro which then went almost up to San Bernardino. The river was quite different from what was known with the main channel being in some other channels partially but navigable by rivercraft. The Lambro would also be navigated up to the site of Milan. The Germans was sorry about the loss of Autobahn to Ljubljana but shrug their shoulders. The Slovenes had because of the navigation of River Po buildt a very small colony slightly inland from the mouth of the Po to secure themselves though only once had the Spanish Armada paid a visit to their port of Koper in Istria though occasional Spanish recce flight did occur. The Serbs had of course been moving into Kosovo – with no Kosovo State or IFOR it was no problem and the Serbs YEARNED for Kosovo Polje! Even the Slovaks were a little disturbed by this Serb activity. That the Slovaks began building a road into Bohemia didn't bother the Serbs as they expected their ally to just claiming that rich land. The Slovaks had an insurance in mind though Bohemia as such was nice to have though they entered in VERY secret negotiations with the German Länder about Bohemia. Just the first installment under the heading Still very much interested in feedback and ideas.
A lot going on and a bit surprised about how Spain has been isolated by occupying the empty Gib. Scotland doesn't really have any interest in the region and neither does what's left of the US. Also I would expect that there's a lot more grabbing of now empty lands with Spain for instance moving into Portugal, southern parts of France and probably also some of the Med islands as Sicily especially would give them access to southern Italy and a Tunisia here that could be a lot less desolute than OTL as well as controlling both exists to the western Med. Ditto with many other areas by other countries.
Not sure why Sudanese would be anchoring off the Balarics. Their in prime position to settle and develop an unsettled Egypt and possibly also moving along the coasts either way. Unless your referring to some Sudanese who are anchored off there prior to the ISOT?
Interesting idea of the Slovenes working their way into N Italy to link up with the Swiss and the rump German states.
Not surprised that Serbia is after Kosovo as its so historically important to them as well. Suspect it would also be pushing either westward or more likely possibly southwards to get to the sea. IIRC their the only Orthodox state so they might go after the straits as well with the idea of establishing a Serbian Constantinople.
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575
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Post by 575 on Oct 6, 2023 21:46:19 GMT
First Decade events: Northern-Central Europe Scotland, Sweden, settler Denmark (Jutland) and Germany are working together on the North Sea oil and gas extraction – Scotland having the off-shore industry is the real leader in the endevour though Saarland is the producer along Sweden. Aluminium is imported from Surinam but all wants to buy and Surinam is working to enlarge its production. Surinam with US blessing have begun building a colony in Jamaica to extract Bauxite for the production. Spain initially wanted in on the North European group but the annexation of Gibraltar Rock annoyed some Scotsmen and also the US States as well as the Slovenians though the odd small Sudanese boat at times calling in at the Baleares were happy to see foreign faces. The case of the Slovenians wanting to cooperate with the North Europeans certainly the Germans but also the Swiss served to piss off the Serbs as well as Spanish. However the Spanish seemed to know quite some of what was going on in the Eastern Med due to its Navy having units there on mostly permanent station which made for much operational time for the Juan Carlos Amphibious Ship and its small Airgroup of AV-8s and Helicopters. Those Sudanese anchoring at the Baleares ofter would see Spanish Dassault Falcon 900 or Airbus 400's flying East to do reconnaisance over Syria. It had been the high-handed treatment of Gibraltar Strait by Spain which served to have the German Länder come closer to the Swiss and Slovenia, these almost German Slavs! The difficult thing would be tying Slovenia up with Switzerland or Sachsen though as all agreed to the mining of the Erzgebirge of southern Sachsen made for development of former Czech borderlands so doing this and build a road through Bohemia down south to the Danube – at which point the Swiss pointed to the much easier Po River Plain from the Western Slovene border to what had been Milan and then into the Alpes to Chiasso south of Lugano. Of course the last part would be the difficult one but the Swiss would of course throw everything in there and they DID have experience working in those mountains which were the lesser in that area and anyway the difficult part would be from Chiasso to the southern shore of Lake Como and then it would be a piece of cake to Milan. Said the Swiss. The Slovenes had also aired a concern about getting too close to the Slovak border in Bohemia so that settled the issue. For starters the Slovenes had already for some time been navigating the Po River from its mouth on the Adriatic up to the Lambro which then went almost up to San Bernardino. The river was quite different from what was known with the main channel being in some other channels partially but navigable by rivercraft. The Lambro would also be navigated up to the site of Milan. The Germans was sorry about the loss of Autobahn to Ljubljana but shrug their shoulders. The Slovenes had because of the navigation of River Po buildt a very small colony slightly inland from the mouth of the Po to secure themselves though only once had the Spanish Armada paid a visit to their port of Koper in Istria though occasional Spanish recce flight did occur. The Serbs had of course been moving into Kosovo – with no Kosovo State or IFOR it was no problem and the Serbs YEARNED for Kosovo Polje! Even the Slovaks were a little disturbed by this Serb activity. That the Slovaks began building a road into Bohemia didn't bother the Serbs as they expected their ally to just claiming that rich land. The Slovaks had an insurance in mind though Bohemia as such was nice to have though they entered in VERY secret negotiations with the German Länder about Bohemia. Just the first installment under the heading Still very much interested in feedback and ideas.
A lot going on and a bit surprised about how Spain has been isolated by occupying the empty Gib. Scotland doesn't really have any interest in the region and neither does what's left of the US. Also I would expect that there's a lot more grabbing of now empty lands with Spain for instance moving into Portugal, southern parts of France and probably also some of the Med islands as Sicily especially would give them access to southern Italy and a Tunisia here that could be a lot less desolute than OTL as well as controlling both exists to the western Med. Ditto with many other areas by other countries.
Not sure why Sudanese would be anchoring off the Balarics. Their in prime position to settle and develop an unsettled Egypt and possibly also moving along the coasts either way. Unless your referring to some Sudanese who are anchored off there prior to the ISOT?
Interesting idea of the Slovenes working their way into N Italy to link up with the Swiss and the rump German states.
Not surprised that Serbia is after Kosovo as its so historically important to them as well. Suspect it would also be pushing either westward or more likely possibly southwards to get to the sea. IIRC their the only Orthodox state so they might go after the straits as well with the idea of establishing a Serbian Constantinople.
Well I'd guess any such move as to try closing off a waterway even if as wide as the Gib Strait might stir up sentiments. My general idea was that Spain may view itself the major World power at try secure its position sitting at the end of waters leading to a troubled part of the World. After all besides South Korea and Sweden they may be the one fully functional state and able to project power though not yet in a Word Wide Way. May incite the most grounded into doing odd stuff.
The Sudanese are establishing a trade route from home to civilization - as there is no Aswan Dam around they go by ship - more of this later but this part is growing. Think I'd better post it as is by now which may clear some issues.
I have the view that the Slovenes think of themselves belonging to Central - North Europe - may be faulty but it used to be part of Carinthia in the olden days. The alternative Serbia I don't think the Slovenes would consider. More on this next installment. Also refer to my idea on Spain.
The Serbs will be going further south than Kosovo - to the Straits. See next installment.
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575
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Post by 575 on Oct 6, 2023 21:46:50 GMT
Even though most expected it to happen – though mostly peoples within administration and intelligence services – Syria's Ruling Asad Regime took some time to evaporate even missing the Wagner Mercenaries. In the end lack of sufficient ammunition decided it even Saudi Arabia abandoning it as it still wanted to build the sustainable City of Tomorrow in the desert. However money had become sparse and trade networks as well as global infrastructures gone. So had BRICS though South Africa still being around. Saudi Arabia however wasn't going to drag South Africa out of its mud. The USA had been doing a little flying over Syria to reconnoiter whats going on but that slowly petered out as the US had more pressing problems at home with developing the transport corridor along the Mississippi/Missouri River system to link up the two States. The USAF had withdrawn from Saudi Arabia and they themselves had difficulty in reconnoitering aerially and not less on the ground as their dialect gave them off – which You didn't want in that unhealthy Syrian environment. The first event had been an emergency landing which had ended up mounting a large expedition to extract Crew and information. It was carried out though not without loss and not something to be relived.
USA as Germany was working with riverine sailing anew – both nations had build small Colonies at the mouth of the major Rivers the Rhine and Mississippi to control those and the eventual foreign traffic up them.
In the Caribbean – South America not much so was taking place as Surinam was busy helping the few Caribbean Nations along. A lot having changed without organized crime being much of an issue in the area by now. The local Aluminium production made Surinam a VERY interesting trade partner World wide though mainly with USA, European and Asian Nations though Saudi Arabia and South Africa also did trade. Because of this Surianam was enlarging production as much as possible soon needing skilled labour which proved as in many other places a real challenge.
In Surinam as in a lot of other places having to rebuild a lot of local industry from scratch if only to avoid dependance on other Nations out of sheer inability to compete in trading through lack of local wanted raw materials or just because having no such was taking a toll. At some point somebody realized that resources was out there but for a number of the Nations extracting was a real problem. Not necessarily because of lack of resources but lack of skilled workers or lack of tools for running complicated separating processes of various ore. As with BRICS some initial steps were taken – Scotland, Sweden, German Länder and USA was out early with Spain coming around but also the Central European States wanted in. The Asians of Singapore and South Korea had a lot of hardware and Sri Lanka decided it had quite some workers in need of work. What started as a need for getting on developed into a trade network and slowly a political too as a lot of negotiating was necessary. Without a common World wide market running banking and all other more immaterial tools had to be developed – which called for the politicians.
And those got something to talk about – thanks to a general lack of World Wide Media not much came out of the Sudans. Syria had been ugly and still was – the Sudans turned out like. The recent enmity of the two Sudans reemerged as the warring fractions in Sudan had prevailed. Some years later a probe from South Sudan regarding traffic on the Nile apparently blew the lid off. Suffice to say it was mainly a Medieval Swords and Sorcery battle which dragged on and on. Seeing nobody doing anything from outside the Saudi's decided it had become enough and mediated the parties to just bring an end to violence. (Think Rwanda between Nations!)
During the Saudi work in the Sudans something surfaced about the Serbs having set up check points on Gallipoli and Bosporus narrows. It wasn't supposed to have leaked out. The Saudi's had attained relations with Serbia and other European Nations which had led to something about events in Syria finding its way north. Seemed a Caliphate had been set up in Syria and the Saudi's nor the Serbs were in any way pleased about it but not at the time ready to mount anything on it – so it grew.
The Serbians and Slovaks had been busy building a highway from Slovenia through the Pannonian Plain east of the Danube with Belgrade and Bratislava eventually to be connected. At first and most of this decade still for stretches a dirt track untill sufficient tarmac would be produced.
The Pacific was another place on the fringe – South Korea and Singapore had endeavoured to search the area for any traces of Nations of course by now something starting with S which brought them south of New Guinea to the Solomon Isles and all east to Samoa – about as far as you could go. In both Nations not much had happened besides taking up the life of before the arrival of Europeans or Asian traders living on the Islands and the Ocean. Actually the first sight of life had been Singaporean Explorers sighting a large outrigger Canoe west of the Solomons and establishing contact. Not many traces of European headed Civilization remained but the Nation had pulled through – not without loss but it had worked and did. Population was in recess which a dose of modern medicine helped a lot though the old new way of life was more unforgiven than prior but it had become the new normal. Actually Samoa had already been sighted by the Solomons though little trade was done – not much else. As the Ocean being huge there was plenty room for all (or few – whatever You like). Shortly – within two years Samoa was back on the grid as had the Solomons come though initially only with a solar and windgenerator driven radio.
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575
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Post by 575 on Oct 7, 2023 7:10:40 GMT
Thisonly served to highten Spanish feelings of superiority - launching a re-usuable rocket Miura-1 from the Atlantic coast at Huelva of Spain. Spanish Century anyone?
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575
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Post by 575 on Oct 7, 2023 7:27:24 GMT
Longer term Issues: German Länder – rebuild Germany, claim some North Sea area to build a petrolchemical industry and begin drilling for oil. Alternative build a road and railway to Galizia to start extraction there – only need to brush off the Slovaks.
The various nations have to convince their populations of building Colonies in areas with needed raw materials to support the Nation – Propaganda/Myth building to entice going out.
Serbia wanting Romanian Oil – Ploesti perhaps in a venture with Slovakia if these isn't looking North to Galizia. Serbia was also striving to build a port in the location of Thessalonika but everything had to be done from scratch and Serbia having close to no shipbuilding or navigation experience besides its Danube Flotilla would be in deep water! Mainly so with Slovenia rejecting to help out and Spain being more than lukewarm towards the project the Serbs forged on.
Spain began building a Word Wide Web by putting a Communications Satellite into orbit. It only worked for at few years with users having to use burst's of messages and data transmission due to the low orbit and was a mixed blessing mainly because the Spanish Space Agency had problems finding the funds for building vehicle that would allow such Satellites to be put into Geostationary Orbit – though Spain kept going.
Sao Tome et Principe may go for Colonizing the Guinea Bay coast or at least Fernanco Po to be able to entice Saudi Arabia or the Europeans or South Koreans/Singapore to build oil extraction. SA may perhaps be interested if they haven't gone down the drain in an effort to monopolized Oil production – SK/Singapore may find it attractive possibly better than getting into the Persian Gulf and whatever is going on there. The Spanish may think of Algerian Oil or Libya which will be close to home.
USA States – rebuilding America!
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575
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Post by 575 on Oct 7, 2023 9:27:01 GMT
Africa – outside the Sudans:
South Africa besides its interior problems decided to help out Sao Thome and Principe and offered aid to Senegal and Sierra Leone as well as Somalia though the latter was done with some apprehension and cautiously as cynically time was expected to change the situation within that. It did but the Somalians were somewhat off that though with little to offer the ISOT World it realized once everybody had run out of explosives and ammunition and some Warrior tribes had been defeated a quasi-Democratic Government emerged that would accept some aid if something could be exported in return.
South Africa had seen its own trouble though with nowhere to go for the Afrikaaner and British-etnic population the initial problems this time adverse to Caucasian Peoples having been running out of steam as had happened in other places saw a four party state emerge with an African, a Zulu, an Afrikaaner a British and an Indian etnicity which tried breaking down barriers once again. In the process a large part of the Zulu etnicity decided to go settling for a new Nation; at first in Lesotho and Eswatini but ultimately relocated to Zimbabwe and Zambia. Some Indian etnic peoples had a dream of migration to the Subcontinent and a small group did go but the majority stayed on. With a large well educated fraction they played a large role in negotiating a new Constituation once the most trouble some Zulu had gone settlers even with a clause of allowing Zulu resettling to as inclusive as possible. As always the Afrikaaner was dubious of this but aquised to follow the majority.
With an economy already in shambles at ISOT South Africa took a long time following the initial troubles of recovering.
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575
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Post by 575 on Oct 7, 2023 9:31:10 GMT
In the memory of mankind: Oft it is said that this goes back no further than last year however in the ISOT of S things seemed different the immediate obvious being the Serb annexation of Kosovo area and Macedonia as well as putting up outpost's on the Dardanelles and Bosporus and try rebuilding the port of Thessalonika. The less obvious to other nations was that of the Danish Minority of Schleswig-Holstein which began as driplets into Jutland a few years following the ISOT but the real kick came with the increased political talks of the Nations, Home Ruled areas and Länder and US States as Sweden aired its intention of colonizing Sjælland for starters the area of Copenhagen west to Lejre. Sweden already had begun some infiltration into Norway (former polity names uses frequently as everybody would be aware of whats meant) to secure farmland in Eastfold and generally Viken – lands surrounding the Oslo Fiord but also on the North Sea – Atlantic Coast to get a foothold on the North Sea oil talks. So far so good but the mentioning of LEJRE!!! It was obvious to their German neigbours that their Danish minded countrymen was never before seen in such fury ”OF ALL THAT'S SACRED” - it even surpassed any Spanish expressions of their feelings of superiority and National aspirations to some sounding like Crusade. Next thing happening was all Danish farms and firms not sold would see caretagers organized and then an Exodus to forested Denmark – a large group going directly for Copenhagen and Roskilde areas. The Swedes totally baffled couldn't find what to say and strived for being polite and in-offensive in best Swedish way even to offer aid to the Danish Settlers which was promtly REJECTED! Slam Bam No Thank You Ma'am! Somebody even suggested setting up a Danish Military Legion to be the Firebrigade of the free World – a suggestion that only received a light headshake of ”no” from the Danish. It would befall the Danish Minority Party of Schleswig to console the Swedes that they should not really be scared and leave the Danes to themselves - ”In a few Centuries they'll be talking to You” said the DMP leader to the Swedish Premier. And so in a matter of less than a decade almost the entirety of the Danish Minority of Germany had resettle in their Ancestral Sacred Nation. Spain didn't really know what they did when they moved onto the Rock of Gibraltar when even Scots and Americans denounced their action. It took a Hispanic from South Carolina to explain it in Spanish to the Spanish that this is just over the hill and even then the Spanish Premier looked flappergasted and still would be adamant even though Spain already HAD a presence across the Strait of Gibraltar in Africa by their territory of Melilla. The building of Military manned Radar and other surveillance stations on the Rock didn't do anything to console anybody but with time things calmed down. One of the popular changes which nobody didn't really notice untill somebody said so on National News was the longevity of News – peoples would due to the lack of international news changing from day to day take a great interest in whats going on and continue discussing untill something new would pop up perhaps a couple of weeks later. Some elderly persons would tell their internet-hungry younger family members of days way past when news in contrast to just before the ISOT would have been well researched and argued by the News Media (of course a sentimental view far from proven reality) just as now. The Spanish efforts to put Satellites into Geo-stationary orbit was much followed and discussed and with only sporadic news served by badly translations from Spanish discussions would venture far and wide in scope. The Spanish themselves also had plans besides the Rock which didn't recieve much if any press – settlers moving into Portugal and Septimania in Southern France. The Spanish Tourist Industry was moving along albeit in slower pace than pre-ISOT as Sun-hungry Scots and Swedes would still go for the Sun there as later in Septimania though the Germans were fewer as spending Your Summer Vacation in Istria was seen as proper and decent and anyways the locals were practically Germans. Some Airlines or remnants thereof still would charter to do so in season though the opening of the cross Po Plain Highway (no Autobahn) would see German return to their much missed Autoborne Holiday habits cruising from Kiel to Pula though of course with proper ferrying along the Rhine which later would see a Highway all the way to Switzerland. In South Dakota part of the large First Nations/American Indians took to the Plains outside the state to take up the way of life of their Ancestors. By some lauded by others ridiculed and by others wished for the migration took on slowly as the emigrees had established themselves and would welcome newcomers who weren't all First Nations/American Indian – all howevers were welcome. Some Rednecks had been rather active during the opening years but lack of Gas for their Trucks and rationing of Rifle Ammunition did slowly curtail their activities which was also condemmed by the Governor and Lawenforcement offices directed to take action. It was late however as the First Nations/American Indian settlers had moved furter into the plains to escape unwanted attention and initiatives were put forward mainly by Conservationist's argueing to protect the pristine World around us from just ruining it all once again. Counter argument being of course that it would take forever to make 356 Mill. Humans do the damage of 7 Bill. to the World. However the Youth Movements of Ecology and Climate protection did climb the Social Ladder if only because they grew older and those holding outdated views of Protecting the World slowly would leave positions in society or die out made room. It wasn't just South Dakota but also in South Carolina with the local Preservationist Groups seeing influence in protecting the Ecology of the Coast as well as Florida's Swamplands to the south and the Allegheny Mountains and stretching furter to Europe even in Spain and the Far East. *** Thus far I'll pause - should I get any ideas I'll post them. Still any input will be much welcome - I will have no problem in changing things or add stuff. Remember I have a North Eurocentric outlook of the World even though I've travelled far abroad thus don't know a lot or may have misunderstood things or processes. If You have some ideas don't post them - bring it forth and lets discuss.
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stevep
Fleet admiral
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Post by stevep on Oct 7, 2023 12:44:13 GMT
Well initial thoughts. I can't see Saudi surviving. Its lost a hell of a lot of its workforce, including both the bulk of the labourers and a fair number of the actual technical people - as opposed to the official Saudi managers. Also for a while at least their going to be pretty much cut off from a lot of their trading partners while with both the much smaller population and the fact that the North Sea oil is still in place that's going to be a lot easier for many consumers to reach. All this coupled with the loss of contact with neighbours is going to cause disruption and I think the regime will be unable to survive it. I fear the result will be a period of disorder probably succeeded by an even more fanatical religious group emerging from the chaos, along with a lot of deaths as largely isolated from the rest of the world too many parts of the complex economy will be lost. - If it doesn't or even before while it is collapsing I wouldn't be surprised if there's also an attempt to 'reclaim' the 3rd holiest site in Sunni Islam, namely the location of Jerusalem. Albeit that others could be interested in that region.
With Spain it could become one of the dominant powers of the new world as its probably the most populated - other than possibly S Korea - of the stable economies. A lot would depend on its stability and how it handles the challenges and opportunities.
One thing it and other European nations could be involved in would be a restored Papacy as that's likely to be of interest to what Catholics are in this new world. I suspect it would probably be located in Spain at least for a while as the largest Catholic nation left, although possibly relocated to a rebuilt Rome at some time in the uture. What they will do about selecting new cardinals, let alone a new Pope I don't know but I think there will be some attempt as such.
Sorry to disagree with your Danish characters but I can't really see a Danish state of any size emerging. Sweden and possibly also the Scheswig Germans are too large in terms of local population and the core of Denmark too rich in potential not to draw in settlers.
In terms of climate, all other things being equal the new world will be somewhat colder than what their used to. Both in terms of the lower levels of CO2 and CH4 but also because of the large areas of plant and ice cover. Possibly not significantly so but it will be cooler. - There are suggestions that the development of agriculture by humanity, especially paddy fields in E and S Asia because of the CH4 production may have saved the world from another ice age, or at least significant period of cooling. If that was the case it would be a lot colder but that would make for too much complexity in the story.
On a related issue without humans there are likely to be a lot of mega-fauna across much of the virgin lands, which will create problems and opportunities, at least as long as they last.
S Africa may develop as you suggest, although that assumes both the Zulu's being willing to abandon their ancestral lands totally, rather than just expanding into empty lands on their borders and a fair bit of desire among the other groups to actually work together and to do so intelligently. I fear its far more likely to see a lot of bloodshed as the blame game is likely, with the country largely isolated from the rest of the world, to be more popular among many people.
In terms of the US I wonder how long the idea of a unified US will exist. You have two largely isolated populated regions that while they - especially in S Carolina - have a lot of military power for the moment are likely to struggle to keep in contact let alone have the same interests.
S Korea and Singapore will both have massive opportunities for expansion as they have plenty of room although initial isolation could be an issue and also in the former case their serious demographic problems.
Anyway initial thoughts.
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575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Oct 7, 2023 15:01:28 GMT
Well initial thoughts. I can't see Saudi surviving. Its lost a hell of a lot of its workforce, including both the bulk of the labourers and a fair number of the actual technical people - as opposed to the official Saudi managers. Also for a while at least their going to be pretty much cut off from a lot of their trading partners while with both the much smaller population and the fact that the North Sea oil is still in place that's going to be a lot easier for many consumers to reach. All this coupled with the loss of contact with neighbours is going to cause disruption and I think the regime will be unable to survive it. I fear the result will be a period of disorder probably succeeded by an even more fanatical religious group emerging from the chaos, along with a lot of deaths as largely isolated from the rest of the world too many parts of the complex economy will be lost. - If it doesn't or even before while it is collapsing I wouldn't be surprised if there's also an attempt to 'reclaim' the 3rd holiest site in Sunni Islam, namely the location of Jerusalem. Albeit that others could be interested in that region.
With Spain it could become one of the dominant powers of the new world as its probably the most populated - other than possibly S Korea - of the stable economies. A lot would depend on its stability and how it handles the challenges and opportunities.
One thing it and other European nations could be involved in would be a restored Papacy as that's likely to be of interest to what Catholics are in this new world. I suspect it would probably be located in Spain at least for a while as the largest Catholic nation left, although possibly relocated to a rebuilt Rome at some time in the uture. What they will do about selecting new cardinals, let alone a new Pope I don't know but I think there will be some attempt as such.
Sorry to disagree with your Danish characters but I can't really see a Danish state of any size emerging. Sweden and possibly also the Scheswig Germans are too large in terms of local population and the core of Denmark too rich in potential not to draw in settlers.
In terms of climate, all other things being equal the new world will be somewhat colder than what their used to. Both in terms of the lower levels of CO2 and CH4 but also because of the large areas of plant and ice cover. Possibly not significantly so but it will be cooler. - There are suggestions that the development of agriculture by humanity, especially paddy fields in E and S Asia because of the CH4 production may have saved the world from another ice age, or at least significant period of cooling. If that was the case it would be a lot colder but that would make for too much complexity in the story.
On a related issue without humans there are likely to be a lot of mega-fauna across much of the virgin lands, which will create problems and opportunities, at least as long as they last.
S Africa may develop as you suggest, although that assumes both the Zulu's being willing to abandon their ancestral lands totally, rather than just expanding into empty lands on their borders and a fair bit of desire among the other groups to actually work together and to do so intelligently. I fear its far more likely to see a lot of bloodshed as the blame game is likely, with the country largely isolated from the rest of the world, to be more popular among many people.
In terms of the US I wonder how long the idea of a unified US will exist. You have two largely isolated populated regions that while they - especially in S Carolina - have a lot of military power for the moment are likely to struggle to keep in contact let alone have the same interests.
S Korea and Singapore will both have massive opportunities for expansion as they have plenty of room although initial isolation could be an issue and also in the former case their serious demographic problems.
Anyway initial thoughts.
My initial thought was that the Saudi's might survive but thinking about their building projects for the future which they won't be able to finish and possible spillover from Syria I tend to agree with You. I'd expect them to go out within the first half of the first decade then perhaps earlier. Trying to reclaim Jerusalem could be the deciding factor if the Syrians or some sect out of there are going for it too. Thing is will Sudan go down that route too? Singapore may view that from a far as there is also followers of Islam there.
Which of course lead to the other major religion - well I haven't given religion much thought. A temporary Rome somewhere in Spain is an absolute possible along the Spanish dreams of hegemony it ties in nicely. Ok - so religion: Islam Syria, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Somalia, Senegal, Sierra Leone 77%, Singapore 15% Christianity: Catholisism Spain, USA, Slovenia, Slovakia, Switzerland 36,5% - reformed/protestants 24,4%, other religions Christian sects, Islam, Judaism etc., USA, Singapore large Christian group, Saarland, Surinam 22%, South Korea 6% Eastern Orthodoc Serbia,
Protestant Schleswig-Holstein, Sachsen-Anhalt, Sachsen, Scotland/Church of Scotland, Sweden, Surinam 26%, South Korea 17%, Sierra Leone 22% mix, South Africa
Coptic South Sudan,
Buddhism Singapore, Sri Lanka, South Korea 16%,
No affiliation South Korea 60%
So of course religion will be an issue.
Well the Danish minority is going anyway even if they have become subjects of Sweden - the horror - or stay Germans, well at least that is a known factor!
My thoughts on South Africa is there may well be some bloodshed even a lot - thing is would the Zulus decide to up and go? I'm uncertain but something will happen. I could see those wanting the Republic to stay afloat Afrikaner, Br - no mustn't use that - well you know who, Africans not Zulu and Indians/Asians may form one front Zulus the other.. I just expect the Zulus will have to go or get thrown out if they don't want to cooperate. That would be nasty.
At least Singapore is close to Sri Lanka though they won't like too much cooperation - guess they think the Sri Lankans too unorganized bordering on primitive when I think of the highly streamlined Singapore. Thought South Korea would be in a better state..
USA - yes I feared that too.
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575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
Posts: 2,739
Likes: 4,116
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Post by 575 on Oct 7, 2023 15:20:37 GMT
Well initial thoughts. I can't see Saudi surviving. Its lost a hell of a lot of its workforce, including both the bulk of the labourers and a fair number of the actual technical people - as opposed to the official Saudi managers. Also for a while at least their going to be pretty much cut off from a lot of their trading partners while with both the much smaller population and the fact that the North Sea oil is still in place that's going to be a lot easier for many consumers to reach. All this coupled with the loss of contact with neighbours is going to cause disruption and I think the regime will be unable to survive it. I fear the result will be a period of disorder probably succeeded by an even more fanatical religious group emerging from the chaos, along with a lot of deaths as largely isolated from the rest of the world too many parts of the complex economy will be lost. - If it doesn't or even before while it is collapsing I wouldn't be surprised if there's also an attempt to 'reclaim' the 3rd holiest site in Sunni Islam, namely the location of Jerusalem. Albeit that others could be interested in that region.
With Spain it could become one of the dominant powers of the new world as its probably the most populated - other than possibly S Korea - of the stable economies. A lot would depend on its stability and how it handles the challenges and opportunities.
One thing it and other European nations could be involved in would be a restored Papacy as that's likely to be of interest to what Catholics are in this new world. I suspect it would probably be located in Spain at least for a while as the largest Catholic nation left, although possibly relocated to a rebuilt Rome at some time in the uture. What they will do about selecting new cardinals, let alone a new Pope I don't know but I think there will be some attempt as such.
Sorry to disagree with your Danish characters but I can't really see a Danish state of any size emerging. Sweden and possibly also the Scheswig Germans are too large in terms of local population and the core of Denmark too rich in potential not to draw in settlers.
In terms of climate, all other things being equal the new world will be somewhat colder than what their used to. Both in terms of the lower levels of CO2 and CH4 but also because of the large areas of plant and ice cover. Possibly not significantly so but it will be cooler. - There are suggestions that the development of agriculture by humanity, especially paddy fields in E and S Asia because of the CH4 production may have saved the world from another ice age, or at least significant period of cooling. If that was the case it would be a lot colder but that would make for too much complexity in the story.
On a related issue without humans there are likely to be a lot of mega-fauna across much of the virgin lands, which will create problems and opportunities, at least as long as they last.
S Africa may develop as you suggest, although that assumes both the Zulu's being willing to abandon their ancestral lands totally, rather than just expanding into empty lands on their borders and a fair bit of desire among the other groups to actually work together and to do so intelligently. I fear its far more likely to see a lot of bloodshed as the blame game is likely, with the country largely isolated from the rest of the world, to be more popular among many people.
In terms of the US I wonder how long the idea of a unified US will exist. You have two largely isolated populated regions that while they - especially in S Carolina - have a lot of military power for the moment are likely to struggle to keep in contact let alone have the same interests.
S Korea and Singapore will both have massive opportunities for expansion as they have plenty of room although initial isolation could be an issue and also in the former case their serious demographic problems.
Anyway initial thoughts.
Indeed but this is a world of 356 mill. peoples with modern farming - looked that up - Global population like that of 1100 when there was a climate optimum the Medieval so I don't expect them to freeze. Now You are the pessimist! Granted a decade may go before the change make it. Still they're not gonna perish in the frostlands. Edit - no the two ain't interconnected but we don't know the present climate in this pristine world - prior to agriculture the World experienced climate changes too.
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