ukron
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"Beware of the French"
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Post by ukron on Aug 28, 2023 14:22:23 GMT
The idea of building a circular warship isn't necessarily a bad one, if we follow the example of the Scotsman John Elder ("assistant" to the famous Edward Reed (1830-1906)), who wanted to assign such vessels to river-style operations in the obvious context of colonization. Elder never developed his circular ships, since in the end, nobody really needed them.
But Imperial Russia was to develop the same idea, a "logical" choice for the Russian navy, disarmed in the Black Sea after the Crimean War: Admiral Andrei Popov thus proposed the construction of a circular ship (theoretically double-armored, in this case with a 229mm thick belt) to act as a firing platform, thus ensuring the defense of the fort of Sebastopol. Ignoring the rather important question of roll, this ship, whose construction began in 1871 and was completed in 1874, was theoretically to be classified as a naval fortress (disregarding the Paris Naval Disarmament Treaty) to defend the Crimea and the Dnieper. This fake naval fortress rests on six steam engines, each delivering 3,000 horsepower, and is transformed in rough seas into a semi-submersible (the deck is entirely covered) with a respectable "punch" (two 279mm cannons, 2 86mm cannons and 16 37mm cannons, each independent); the snag being that the ship's stability was.....chaotic (and it's quite a miracle that none of the three ships built sank). Before she was even completed, Tsar Alexander II was thinking big and considered it necessary to build 10 units within the "Vitse-Admiral Popov" class; in the end, only three ships were completed and struck off the naval register in 1903, obviously without any prestigious service record. |
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575
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Post by 575 on Aug 28, 2023 15:55:23 GMT
Well, yes remember seeing a drawing of one many, many moons ago when none the better we would know as a lot was done this way.. but my first thought being WTF!
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 28, 2023 17:25:40 GMT
The idea of building a circular warship isn't necessarily a bad one, if we follow the example of the Scotsman John Elder ("assistant" to the famous Edward Reed (1830-1906)), who wanted to assign such vessels to river-style operations in the obvious context of colonization. Elder never developed his circular ships, since in the end, nobody really needed them. But Imperial Russia was to develop the same idea, a "logical" choice for the Russian navy, disarmed in the Black Sea after the Crimean War: Admiral Andrei Popov thus proposed the construction of a circular ship (theoretically double-armored, in this case with a 229mm thick belt) to act as a firing platform, thus ensuring the defense of the fort of Sebastopol. Ignoring the rather important question of roll, this ship, whose construction began in 1871 and was completed in 1874, was theoretically to be classified as a naval fortress (disregarding the Paris Naval Disarmament Treaty) to defend the Crimea and the Dnieper. This fake naval fortress rests on six steam engines, each delivering 3,000 horsepower, and is transformed in rough seas into a semi-submersible (the deck is entirely covered) with a respectable "punch" (two 279mm cannons, 2 86mm cannons and 16 37mm cannons, each independent); the snag being that the ship's stability was.....chaotic (and it's quite a miracle that none of the three ships built sank). Before she was even completed, Tsar Alexander II was thinking big and considered it necessary to build 10 units within the "Vitse-Admiral Popov" class; in the end, only three ships were completed and struck off the naval register in 1903, obviously without any prestigious service record.
For the rest, interesting. |
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ukron
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"Beware of the French"
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Post by ukron on Aug 29, 2023 12:27:42 GMT
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 29, 2023 13:41:29 GMT
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Post by Max Sinister on Sept 1, 2023 23:18:02 GMT
Was this the same round ship which would spin so much that it'd even make experienced sailors seasick?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 2, 2023 10:52:07 GMT
Was this the same round ship which would spin so much that it'd even make experienced sailors seasick?
That's what I've heard IIRC although how bad the problem was and under what circumstances I don't know.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 2, 2023 10:55:38 GMT
Drachinifel made a good article about them.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 2, 2023 11:24:20 GMT
Drachinifel made a good article about them.
Interesting thanks. Sounds like some of the comments I've read were exaggerated but it was definitely an odd ship and more of a coastal defence battleship than a sea going warship. I'm also wondering about how vulnerable the gun crews would have been in that open mounting to enemy fire and it does look like arcs of fire are restricted somewhat by the funnels and what looks like a bridge to the rear. However interesting solution to the very slow turning arc of just ignoring the rudder and using the engines to turn, albeit that sounds like it was too successful on full power.
I didn't realise how early the design was, in the early 1870's as I vaguely thought they were built later.
Drach did confuse matters somewhat by talking about Russia building up their Baltic fleet - where the two ships were based - while showing a map of the Black Sea! Then later on talking about them playing no role in the later war with the Turks, which isn't surprising as they would have to sail from the Baltic through the N Sea, Channel, eastern fringe of the Atlantic and then across the Med to where they would be facing the Turks without any support or base.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 2, 2023 11:29:44 GMT
without any support or base. Not the last time the Russians did that. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 2, 2023 12:08:05 GMT
without any support or base. Not the last time the Russians did that.
If your thinking of their Baltic fleet in the war against Japan they did have - if they could have reached it - Vladivostok as a base from which to operate from. Unfortunately for them the Japanese caught them before they could reach it. A Russian fleet in 1878 would have had to force the straits to get into the Black Sea to reach a Russian port.
IIRC Russia did have a fleet operating against the Turks in the 18thC but wooden sailing ships are a lot easier to support and they probably had some friendly or at least neutral ports they could get food and water from.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 2, 2023 12:15:52 GMT
Not the last time the Russians did that. If your thinking of their Baltic fleet in the war against Japan they did have - Thanks for getting it, toughed you would not see it. |
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