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Post by Max Sinister on Jul 8, 2023 20:50:33 GMT
The premise of this timeline is: What if humanity had developed on a tilted Earth, more specifically, on Jaredia from World Dream Bank? The features of Jaredia: The North Pole now is in Africa, which is mostly covered by an ice cap bigger than OTL Antarctica, so the sea level is 40 meters lower - which means that Java-Sumatra, Britain, Ceylon and Sakhalin-Japan become Eurasian capes, there's a land bridge between New Guinea and Australia, and most important: Asia and the Americas are also connected! This creates a long strip of land with similar climate all around the Pacific - which means, if Jared Diamond's theories are right, that domesticable plants and animals can spread easily along the west-east directions. Note: Other than some other worlds from World Dream Bank, the climate isn't completely stable - Ice Ages are possible. One premise: Although it won't make sense at all, I'll use place names and peoples' names and common names for persons from OTL. So there'll be crypto-Chinese developing in China, crypto-Spaniards in Spain, and so on. Later in history, that is, because I'll start with the development of humanity, 5 million years in the past. (This doesn't mean that anything but their names will be similar as OTL! Their culture, technology and even look will be completely different - there could be black Vietnamese ITTL, for example.)
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575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Jul 8, 2023 22:27:56 GMT
Did read it on AHcom lately - very interesting, will be following. Really like the work of WDB and surely why not take it into alternate-timelines territory and flesh it out.  |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 9, 2023 11:14:35 GMT
The premise of this timeline is: What if humanity had developed on a tilted Earth, more specifically, on Jaredia from World Dream Bank? The features of Jaredia: The North Pole now is in Africa, which is mostly covered by an ice cap bigger than OTL Antarctica, so the sea level is 40 meters lower - which means that Java-Sumatra, Britain, Ceylon and Sakhalin-Japan become Eurasian capes, there's a land bridge between New Guinea and Australia, and most important: Asia and the Americas are also connected! This creates a long strip of land with similar climate all around the Pacific - which means, if Jared Diamond's theories are right, that domesticable plants and animals can spread easily along the west-east directions. Note: Other than some other worlds from World Dream Bank, the climate isn't completely stable - Ice Ages are possible. One premise: Although it won't make sense at all, I'll use place names and peoples' names and common names for persons from OTL. So there'll be crypto-Chinese developing in China, crypto-Spaniards in Spain, and so on. Later in history, that is, because I'll start with the development of humanity, 5 million years in the past. (This doesn't mean that anything but their names will be similar as OTL! Their culture, technology and even look will be completely different - there could be black Vietnamese ITTL, for example.)
Well that's a blast from the past. Haven't looked at that site for years but still have a link somewhere and some very interesting ideas.
Not going to be good for the British here as we're pretty much arctic but as you say the overall population could be larger and better off and with horizontal movement - making transfer of plants and domesticated animals easier - could mean a lot faster spread of ideas and animals/plants of use. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. |
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Post by Max Sinister on Jul 13, 2023 10:07:22 GMT
Well that's a blast from the past. Haven't looked at that site for years but still have a link somewhere and some very interesting ideas.
Not going to be good for the British here as we're pretty much arctic but as you say the overall population could be larger and better off and with horizontal movement - making transfer of plants and domesticated animals easier - could mean a lot faster spread of ideas and animals/plants of use. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Oh, the British aren't arctic, just sub-arctic, so there's a place for civilized people there. You'll see.
So here's the beginning of the TL:
~5 mil BCE: An ape in the steppe around the area of OTL Urga discovers the secret of stones: If you take a stone, you can hit somebody with it.
4 mil BCE: Australopithecus enters the scene. (ITTL probably differently named, since Mongolia isn't exactly in the South. Centralopithecus?)
2.7 mil BCE: Change of Ice Ages and interglacial ages begins.
2.6 mil BCE: Paranthropus develops in Inner Mongolia. Instead of soft fruits and leaves, they can also eat hard plants - quite useful in the savanna.
2.4 mil BCE: Equivalent to Homo rudolfensis evolves in Sinkiang. They use pebbles with sharp edges, for example to cut carrion meat - they're the first ones to do so.
2.2 mil BCE: Populations of Homo rudolfensis and Paranthropus clash, leading to a division of Mongolia between those two.
2 mil BCE: Australopithecus disappears, crowded out by the other, more advanced pre-humans.
At the same time, Homo habilis appears - they've made carrion (which is softer than fresh meat) a common part of their meals.
The older Paranthropi also face the competition, so small groups of them leave Mongolia for Manchuria, a small group also to Central Asia, which both have the most similar climate.
1.8 mil BCE: Homo ergaster (tool-making human) develops. They invent choppers, cleavers and of course hand axes made of flint.
1.7 mil BCE: Homo erectus (upright human) enters the scene.
1.6 mil BCE: The remains of Homo rudolfensis and Homo habilis have been forced out to SE Siberia, Turkestan, North China and Manchuria. Homo ergaster and Homo erectus have settled all of Mongolia.
1.5 mil BCE: Early humans (this means Homo ergaster and Homo erectus) leave Mongolia, go to neighboring lands. Maybe the climatic change has to do something with it - the jungle is shrinking, the savannah is growing. Homo rudolfensis and Homo habilis are slowly replaced and pushed back by them. This again pushes the Paranthropi further back to Ustyurta (island in the Inland Sea, the united Caspian-Aral, about Britain's size), Korea and Sakhalin-Japan.
1.35 mil BCE: Homo rudolfensis and Homo habilis disappear, completely replaced by younger human species.
1.25 mil BCE: Homo ergaster also disappears, maybe caused by a big Ice Age happening at that time.
1.2 mil BCE: Early humans go outside NE / Central Asia, settle Korea peninsula, North Siberia (except Kamchatka and Chukchi) - starting with the Lena valley, South China, along the northern, southern and eastern shores of Inland Sea. The mountain chain of Himalaya and Persian-Afghan mountains is stopping them, at least for the moment.
1 mil BCE: Paranthropus reduced to Sakhalin-Japan and Ustyurta, which aren't easily accessible without boats.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 13, 2023 16:46:05 GMT
Well that's a blast from the past. Haven't looked at that site for years but still have a link somewhere and some very interesting ideas.
Not going to be good for the British here as we're pretty much arctic but as you say the overall population could be larger and better off and with horizontal movement - making transfer of plants and domesticated animals easier - could mean a lot faster spread of ideas and animals/plants of use. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Oh, the British aren't arctic, just sub-arctic, so there's a place for civilized people there. You'll see.
So here's the beginning of the TL:
~5 mil BCE: An ape in the steppe around the area of OTL Urga discovers the secret of stones: If you take a stone, you can hit somebody with it.
4 mil BCE: Australopithecus enters the scene. (ITTL probably differently named, since Mongolia isn't exactly in the South. Centralopithecus?)
2.7 mil BCE: Change of Ice Ages and interglacial ages begins.
2.6 mil BCE: Paranthropus develops in Inner Mongolia. Instead of soft fruits and leaves, they can also eat hard plants - quite useful in the savanna.
2.4 mil BCE: Equivalent to Homo rudolfensis evolves in Sinkiang. They use pebbles with sharp edges, for example to cut carrion meat - they're the first ones to do so.
2.2 mil BCE: Populations of Homo rudolfensis and Paranthropus clash, leading to a division of Mongolia between those two.
2 mil BCE: Australopithecus disappears, crowded out by the other, more advanced pre-humans.
At the same time, Homo habilis appears - they've made carrion (which is softer than fresh meat) a common part of their meals.
The older Paranthropi also face the competition, so small groups of them leave Mongolia for Manchuria, a small group also to Central Asia, which both have the most similar climate.
1.8 mil BCE: Homo ergaster (tool-making human) develops. They invent choppers, cleavers and of course hand axes made of flint.
1.7 mil BCE: Homo erectus (upright human) enters the scene.
1.6 mil BCE: The remains of Homo rudolfensis and Homo habilis have been forced out to SE Siberia, Turkestan, North China and Manchuria. Homo ergaster and Homo erectus have settled all of Mongolia.
1.5 mil BCE: Early humans (this means Homo ergaster and Homo erectus) leave Mongolia, go to neighboring lands. Maybe the climatic change has to do something with it - the jungle is shrinking, the savannah is growing. Homo rudolfensis and Homo habilis are slowly replaced and pushed back by them. This again pushes the Paranthropi further back to Ustyurta (island in the Inland Sea, the united Caspian-Aral, about Britain's size), Korea and Sakhalin-Japan.
1.35 mil BCE: Homo rudolfensis and Homo habilis disappear, completely replaced by younger human species.
1.25 mil BCE: Homo ergaster also disappears, maybe caused by a big Ice Age happening at that time.
1.2 mil BCE: Early humans go outside NE / Central Asia, settle Korea peninsula, North Siberia (except Kamchatka and Chukchi) - starting with the Lena valley, South China, along the northern, southern and eastern shores of Inland Sea. The mountain chain of Himalaya and Persian-Afghan mountains is stopping them, at least for the moment.
1 mil BCE: Paranthropus reduced to Sakhalin-Japan and Ustyurta, which aren't easily accessible without boats.
True its more the Med part of OTL Southern Europe that really suffers.
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Post by Max Sinister on Jul 15, 2023 22:01:03 GMT
Indeed it does. Not to mention Africa, and Hawaii... but now, back to the TL. 1.4 mil BCE: First kinda-knife invented in Lena valley. Somewhen between 1 million years BCE and 100k BCE: Hominids develop real language. 900k BCE: Paranthropi on Ustyurta island eradicated. 800k BCE: Fire first controlled by humans, at the edge of the Persian-Afghan mountain range. Homo erectus crosses the isthmus of Alaska. 600k BCE: Homo heidelbergensis appears in Central Siberia. They invent scrapers, i.e. one-bladed tools. 500k BCE: Handaxes invented in Central Siberia. Shelters invented in Yukon valley. 500k-100k BCE: Clothing invented. (I rule it happens in Alaska.  ) 400k BCE: Spears invented in Lena valley. Use of pigments (like ochre) invented in North China. Throwing sticks invented in Korea. Homo heidelbergensis goes to Tortolia (OTL North America). Clactonian technique of making flint tools invented in Chukchia. The fertility cult starts to develop: Humans collect stones similarly formed as Venus figurines. 350k BCE: Proto-Neanderthals appear in Alaska. 280k BCE: Spears with stone blades invented in the Rockies (~Saskatchewan). 250k BCE: Spears with fire-hardened points invented in Lena Valley. 200k BCE: Homo neanderthalensis has developed, starts spreading over East Siberia and Tortolia. Humans in OTL Montana start to bury their dead. 200k BCE or earlier: Digging stick invented (place unknown - wood tends to rot). Unknown: Sling invented as a long-range weapon. 130k BCE: The Middle Paleolithic begins. Handaxe-knives invented in California. 100k BCE: Homo erectus dies out. |
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Post by Max Sinister on Jul 27, 2023 5:16:45 GMT
100k BCE: Homo stockholmiensis (TTL equivalent to OTL homo floriensis - you know, the "hobbits") appear in, well, OTL Sweden.
First jewellery made (bracelets and necklaces with shells).
Humans produce hand-axes and such in "factories", using the Levallois technique.
90k BCE: Archaic homo sapiens appears in the valleys in the area of OTL Burma/Thailand.
80k BCE: First weapons made of combined stones and wood, using pitch as glue.
First petroglyphs.
60k BCE: First ships built.
50k BCE: Humans produce the first musical instrument, a flute.
44k BCE: Mining
40k BCE: Young Paleolithic starts. Humans have developed more complex/abstract language. First rock paintings.
40-35k BCE: Humans invent tools like drills, burins, points.
34k BCE: Humans start to produce tools made from bones, horns and ivory.
33k BCE: Humans improve their tools by giving them denticulated edges.
32k BCE: First cave paintings.
30k BCE: Knives with real blades and blunt back produced.
"Shoes" invented.
28k BCE: First ceremonial burial of people.
First real Venus figurines produced.
26k BCE: People develop pointed blades.
25k BCE: First harpoons (several pointy stones pitched onto a piece of wood).
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Post by Max Sinister on Jul 30, 2023 0:30:50 GMT
The world 25k BCE - 10k BCE:
20k BCE: Kylie invented.
20-15k BCE: Boots develop out of shoes.
19k BCE: Needles with eyes invented.
18k BCE: Pressure-flaking invented to make even better stone tools (similar to Clovis points).
17k BCE: Spear-thrower / atlatl invented.
15k BCE: Tents invented.
15-10k BCE: Blade industries.
13k BCE: First roof-like structure in Central Siberia.
12.8k BCE: A new weapon revolutionizes the Stone Age world - bow and arrow. These bows have flat arms and a D-shaped midsection. The center section is biconvex. The complete bow is 1.50 m (5 ft) long.
12k BCE: Microliths invented, to further improve weapons and tools.
Primitive clubs develop into more dangerous maces studded with flint or obsidian.
11k BCE: Start of agriculture.
First villages in the Lena valley.
11-9.5k BCE: Sickle invented in China, along the Huanghe.
10.5k BCE: Pottery invented to make vessels.
Somewhen before 10k BCE: Shamanism appears as the first religion.
(Honestly, I'm a bit bored by the Stone Age stuff too. Fortunately, from now on we get more interesting times.)
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Post by Max Sinister on Aug 2, 2023 22:19:57 GMT
10000 BCE: Dog domesticated by hunters in North Siberia (OTL west Siberia).
Microburins (residual products of the creation of microliths) used in Kamchatka.
Fishing develops (in several places).
Granary invented in the lower Yenissei valley.
11-8000 BCE: Holocene mass extinction. Many species die out due to overhunting. Although sad in itself, this is a necessary precondition for the development of agriculture.
9500 BCE: Proto-farmers in the lower Yenissei valley begin to select and cultivate food plants with desired characteristics.
9000 BCE: Farming develops independently in China.
First megalith in Novaya Semlya - one millennium before the most famous of TTL, which stands in Hokkaido.
8500 BCE: Flake-adzes invented in Utah.
First town founded: Yugh near the mouth of Yenissei. This marks the begin of the Neolithic age.
8000 BCE: Yugh builds its city wall.
Grinding stones invented in Yakutia to grind seeds.
Mat weaving (with stiff fibres) invented in Java.
7700 BCE: Plaster invented in Yugh.
7600-6000 BCE: Mudbricks, limestone floors in Yakutsk. Equivalent of Pre-pottery Neolithic B.
7500 BCE: First metals (copper, silver, gold) used.
7400 BCE: Bovines domesticated in Ontario.
7200 BCE: People in OTL Indiana start with animal husbandry (i.e. breeding livestock)
7000 BCE: Bow drill (firemaking, woodworking, dental surgery, later even other applications) invented.
Fishing hook invented in Alaska.
6600 BCE: First cloth woven from flax fiber
6500 BCE: Naalebinding (a kind of needlework) invented in Vietnam.
Painted pottery invented in Mongolia.
Potter's wheel invented in Lena valley.
6400 BCE: First map made (yay!)
6000 BCE: Dugout boats introduced in Greater Java. Humans start to migrate to Borneo, later Papua-Australia.
Farming develops independently in the Mississippi valley.
Rice cultivated for the first time.
5700 BCE: Dugout boats used for the first time in the Central Sea (that's OTL North Polar Sea).
After the people in the Yenissei valley have destroyed too many of their forests, they invent irrigation to water their crops instead.
5600 BCE: Linear Pottery culture in Lena valley.
5500 BCE: Dugout boats everywhere in use on the supercontinent. Humans start to migrate to Caribbean islands, Greenland, Ireland, Polynesia, Maledives. Only Africa and Tropica stay (yet) empty.
Scratch-ploughs invented in the Mississippi valley.
The settlement of Sangar (where Vilyuy river meets Lena) becomes the world's first city.
5200 BCE: Farming develops again independently in the Orinoco valley.
Maize cultivated for the first time.
5000 BCE: Proto-script develops.
4800 BCE: Bread baked for the first time in OTL Bangladesh.
4600 BCE: Beer invented at the same place.
4100 BCE: Copper pins are made; they are the first metal tools.
4000 BCE: Wheel invented in Siberia.
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Post by Max Sinister on Aug 5, 2023 12:33:06 GMT
Short interlude: The continental drift of Jaredia - prerequisition for the development of animals and plants Here's a good overview: Historical perspective by the USGSNote: Jaredia's North Pole in the time when humanity develops is in Africa - on the maps behind the link above you find it in the central sector, in the third segment counted from above, in the center of the left half. (I also assume that continental drift didn't go a different way, which could happen of course, with continental ice in different places, pressing continents down, closer to the hot core. But in that case, we probably wouldn't get Earth looking like that, so we have to assume it.) So the climatological development of the continents in the 225 million years since the start went about like that: Africa-Arabia: While the northern half always was close to the North Pole, the South (incl. Madagascar) had a better climate 225 mya, almost tropical. During the millennia, it moved further and further north, and went colder and colder, and today only parts of South Africa are not covered completely by ice. India: In the past, warmer and wetter (being an island) than today. But if you measure the distance to the North Pole on the map, you'll see that it went closer to the Pole too - not as much as Africa, however. Today it's temperate in the west (as seen IOTL - on Jaredia, that'd be north!) and mostly desert in the south. (Monsoon blowing the wrong way, apparently.) Europe: In Jaredia's past, even colder than today, and mostly under an ice sheet. Today, only OTL South is frozen; the center is taiga, and Scandinavia + Russia are even temperate. Australia: Went quite a long way, as IOTL - but ITTL, the distance to the Pole didn't change much. North (OTL West) is warm, south (OTL East) is temperate, in between is some desert. Antarctica / Tropica: Distance to the North Pole stayed similar too. So the continent is reliably tropical / subtropical. North America / Tortolia: 225 mya, very cold in the north and at best temperate in the south. OK, Alaska may even be subtropical, but still. Thus, it went a long way - today it's mostly tropical rainforest, or savannah between the Rockies, and maybe subtropical in the Canada-Appalachia region. Parts of Greenland even may be temperate. South America / Amazonia: Went from temeprate-subtropical to a tropical-subtropical continent. Asia: The important continous warm zone from Java-Sumatra-Malaya to Kamchatka always existed. In the past, the continent may have been a bit cooler, esp. East Siberia. Another important fact: The Asian-American land bridge, Jaredia's trademark, came into existence not that long ago - a few million years, maybe. Same with the connection between North and South America. So although the flora and fauna of both supercontinents could mix freely, they were seperated for quite some time - with interesting results. But let's still say it existed five million years ago, so the animals everywhere in the world had time to learn to fear humans. |
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Post by Max Sinister on Aug 9, 2023 16:08:54 GMT
Before we continue the history of the various homines, at first I have to do another thing: The plants and animals.
At first, we'll take a look on the habitats. There are a few big ones and some more smaller ones.
The Big One: Indonesia-East Asia-East Siberia-North America / Tortolia-South America / Amazonia. Mostly tropical rainforest, but between the Rockies you also can find savanna.
Turkestan-West Siberia-Eastern Europe-Scandinavia: temperate.
Tortolia north (OTL east) of the Appalachians plus most of Canada, subtropical.
The smaller ones:
Gobi (savanna)
Britain-Central Europe (pine forest)
Arabia-South Europe (Tundra)
Persia-Oman (pine forest mixed with mountains)
Tibet (high icy mountains)
East India-Birma (desert)
West India-Pakistan (temperate)
South Africa (Tundra and a bit of pineforest)
Madagascar (similar, but more forest)
Sertao / OTL NE Brazil (subtropical, a bit drier)
Greenland (center desert, north temperate, south subtropical)
Tropica / Antarctica (tropical, parts desert or subtropical)
Borneo (tropical too)
Australia-New Guinea (center desert, north tropical, south subtropical to temperate)
New Zealand (temperate or cooler)
Which plants and animals do we find there? Let's take a look at one after another...
Ice: Quite big, but nothing lives there, so it's unimportant.
Tundra: Place four. In Africa, you have mammoths and giant sloths, penguins and sea lions; in Europe, there are polar bears, mountain hares, musk oxen and caribous. (And that might be too much diversity for that place already.)
Pine forest: Not much around. There'll be bears and elks/mooses, but not that many other animals. No useful plants either.
Desert: Quite small, and not very fertile. Only fruit you find there are cactus fruits (no date palms here).
For now, here are the other domesticable animals of the world:
(I had to think up some new ones, and change some old ones - there aren't any domesticable animals in OTL tropics, but I need them. Otherwise, the great W-O area of Jaredia would be useless, if you don't have livestock that can easily spread everywhere.)
Temperate zone:
Horses (Turkestan)
Rabbits (West Siberia)
Subtropical zone:
Goats (Central Siberia)
Pigs (Appalachians)
Cows (Ontario)
Donkey (Central Siberia)
Llama (Rockies)
Alpaca (Andes)
Water buffalo (North China)
Mountain areas:
Yaks (Tibet)
Tropical zone:
Giant tapirs (Amazonas)
Yarks (looks like the chocobos from Final Fantasy; East Siberia)
Zebra (ITTL domesticable; Nunavut)
Capybara (also eats plants, which makes them less picky and thus more useful ITTL; Argentine)
Armadillo (dito; Florida)
Aardvark (again; Korea)
Paka (and again; SE Asia)
Water deer (South China)
Shmoo (see at wikipedia; they're mammals ITTL, not as useful as in the strip, but more like realistic livestock; Kansas)
All these animals will survive and not go extinct due to hunting. Future looks good for mankind.
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Post by Max Sinister on Aug 16, 2023 23:10:01 GMT
Development of the human "races":
Africa and Tropica aren't settled early in history.
Siberia and East Asia (and thus, probably Australia too) are settled by blacks. Yep, we've got black Chinese, Vietnamese, and so on.
Further north, in West Siberia and Europe, live the whites. For the lack of a geographical barrier (like OTL Sahara), there is no definite border, but a gradual change between blacks and whites, from African-looking blacks at Asia's Pacific coast over blacks with more Caucasian features at the Lena and Egyptian-/Arab-like people at the Ob, Southern Europeans in most of European Russia and blonde Northern Europeans in Central Europe.
India and Persia are seperated by high mountains from the rest of the world; here, TTL Mongolids developed.
The Americas are a special case: Here, the Neanderthals survived.
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