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Post by raharris1973 on Jun 26, 2023 11:34:20 GMT
Well spiegel and gillan1220 , 'future knowledge' will be there for 1934 Chiang Kai-Shek and the 1954 Kuomintang to take advantage of, against both the Communists and the Japanese. The Philippines and ROC-Taiwan had decent cooperative relations in 1954 with official and non-official travelers going back and forth. Many Filipinos associated with the Magsaysay government would have their own experiences of reform and counterinsurgency in defeating the Huk rebels to share, and would be aware of the contemporary reforms in ROC-Taiwan of the day, as well as at least all the basics of the history of the Chinese Civil War and Sino-Japanese War between 1934 and 1949. So the 1934 ChiNat's can profit if they are of a mind to listen and learn. Which can be challenging, because they are under a lot of immediate, day-to-day pressures, and can be easily distracted. The Philippines in 1954 recognized the ROC as the legitimate Chinese government. Yes, the AFP would have COIN strategies to share to the KMT on how to combat communist insurgents. Probably, Magsaysay can convinced DT FDR to push for arming the NRA. Unfortunately, the KMT has do deal with massive corruption and incompetence that would hinder COIN operations against Mao Zedong and his forces. The DT ROC is different from the 1954 ROC. The communists too weren't much of a threat to the U.S. and Asia as a whole. They only became threat in the 1950s because of the Domino Theory and the Truman Doctrine. 1934 KMT was still savaging the CCP and beating it hard despite the KMT's problems...and this was without any American aid at all. This was the year the KMT cleaned up all the CCP's south and central China base areas and forced the CCP to go on the Long March where they lost 90% of their strength. Because of some flaws in execution, probably corruption, and unreliability of warlord troops assigned to block retreats, the leadership and 10% still survived, but the KMT wasn't doing so bad at this time. |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jun 26, 2023 12:52:53 GMT
The Philippines in 1954 recognized the ROC as the legitimate Chinese government. Yes, the AFP would have COIN strategies to share to the KMT on how to combat communist insurgents. Probably, Magsaysay can convinced DT FDR to push for arming the NRA. Unfortunately, the KMT has do deal with massive corruption and incompetence that would hinder COIN operations against Mao Zedong and his forces. The DT ROC is different from the 1954 ROC. The communists too weren't much of a threat to the U.S. and Asia as a whole. They only became threat in the 1950s because of the Domino Theory and the Truman Doctrine. 1934 KMT was still savaging the CCP and beating it hard despite the KMT's problems...and this was without any American aid at all. This was the year the KMT cleaned up all the CCP's south and central China base areas and forced the CCP to go on the Long March where they lost 90% of their strength. Because of some flaws in execution, probably corruption, and unreliability of warlord troops assigned to block retreats, the leadership and 10% still survived, but the KMT wasn't doing so bad at this time. Therefore, it would be the best time to eradicate the communists. Unfortunately, China still won't be democracy. It would still be an authoritarian state under the KMT. |
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Post by raharris1973 on Jun 26, 2023 13:21:30 GMT
1934 KMT was still savaging the CCP and beating it hard despite the KMT's problems...and this was without any American aid at all. This was the year the KMT cleaned up all the CCP's south and central China base areas and forced the CCP to go on the Long March where they lost 90% of their strength. Because of some flaws in execution, probably corruption, and unreliability of warlord troops assigned to block retreats, the leadership and 10% still survived, but the KMT wasn't doing so bad at this time. Therefore, it would be the best time to eradicate the communists. Unfortunately, China still won't be democracy. It would still be an authoritarian state under the KMT. Most certainly- ROC 1934 wasn’t a democracy, ROC 1954 wasn’t a democracy. Heck ROC 1984 wasn’t even a democracy. The alt ROC won’t be democracy any time soon. |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jun 27, 2023 0:21:43 GMT
Therefore, it would be the best time to eradicate the communists. Unfortunately, China still won't be democracy. It would still be an authoritarian state under the KMT. Most certainly- ROC 1934 wasn’t a democracy, ROC 1954 wasn’t a democracy. Heck ROC 1984 wasn’t even a democracy. The alt ROC won’t be democracy any time soon. It took until 1996 for the ROC to be a true functional democracy in the Far East. Compare it to South Korea which was authoritarian until the 1980s. The ROC only became a democracy with events cascading from retreating to Taiwan all the way to the death of Chiang Kai Shek in 1975. If the KMT continued to control the mainland, I doubt it would not be democracy by the time the 1990s rolls around. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 27, 2023 12:39:28 GMT
Most certainly- ROC 1934 wasn’t a democracy, ROC 1954 wasn’t a democracy. Heck ROC 1984 wasn’t even a democracy. The alt ROC won’t be democracy any time soon. It took until 1996 for the ROC to be a true functional democracy in the Far East. Compare it to South Korea which was authoritarian until the 1980s. The ROC only became a democracy with events cascading from retreating to Taiwan all the way to the death of Chiang Kai Shek in 1975. If the KMT continued to control the mainland, I doubt it would not be democracy by the time the 1990s rolls around.
You have a double negative in there so just to clarify do you mean you believe a KMT controlled China would be a democracy by the 1990's or it wouldn't? I suspect the latter given it would lack the pressure on OTL Taiwan as a small state, increasingly diplomatically isolated and faced with a steadily more powerful mainland had strong pressure to become more democratic. Both to secure the loyalty of the general population and to win support overseas, most especially from the US so it didn't lose its only real supporter.
A KMT China would lack that incentive, there would be a lot more scope for continued corruption and the KMT could be every bit as imperialist as the communist and would have claims on Tibet, Xinjiang and other areas and that would also be another incentive to avoid democratic reforms.
Steve
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jul 5, 2023 10:12:23 GMT
What do you guys think of the leftover jets at Clark and Subic? The DT U.S. Army Air Corps and U.S. Navy would definitely want to see and study it. If the USS Enterprise (CV-6) is on harbor in Subic, the Navy would want to study it for future carrier-based aircraft.
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