Zyobot
Fleet admiral
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Posts: 17,134 
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 3, 2023 16:47:40 GMT
Compared to war, culture, and geopolitics, food and food preparation tend to be widely overlooked in AH circles. But as in all things, the butterflies let loose by different PODs — such as farmland being either developed or destroyed, sudden economic booms or busts, and different trade routes that pass along new items and ingredients being opened or closed — would no doubt affect the supply chains and agricultural bounty of peoples and cultures the world over, too. Eventually, this would trickle down into different tastes, recipes, and ingredients that might catch OTL observers by surprise. For instance, one post-1900 example I can think of is Cambodia's Kampot Pepper, which nearly went extinct under the Khmer Rouge alongside a host of other recipes and traditional culinary wisdom, no thanks to Pol Pot's purges wiping out lots of chefs, farmers, and knowledgeable elders, while his "Super Great Leap Forward" left farmland either rotting away or ruined by idiotic farming practices enforced at gunpoint. Only after Pol Pot was deposed did farmers who had fled return to restore the vines that grew Kampot Peppers. Fortunately, they're making a gradual comeback now, though progress is currently slow-going. Naturally, it's easy to imagine ATL where Pol Pot never rises to power enables Cambodia to not only develop much more nicely, but also ensures that Kampot Peppers (and lots of other recipes and culinary wisdom wiped out IOTL, for that matter) remain widespread and in no immediate danger of going extinct. Certainly, I doubt Vietnamese "counterfeit" peppers would have nearly as much success, especially since Vietnam is already a dominant regional pepper producer, as is. Probably the case under Communist regimes in general, too, courtesy of the much more frugal and austere tastes of Red Poland, East Germany, and of course, Soviet Russia itself. Of course, those are post-1900 PODs, and most examples of cuisine diverging wildly seem to be pre-1900, if the examples listed in AH.com's Alternate Food and Drinks Thread are any indication. That said, there's still more than enough post-1900 material here, so feel free to share if you've got something. At any rate, lots of ways you can tinker with ATL cuisine and culinary practices, since tastes, recipes, and the availability of certain items and ingredients would vary wildly, depending on the POD and its runoff consequences for agriculture, hunting, and supply chains — all of which determine which foods make it and which ones don't. Thank you in advance, Zyobot |
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Jun 4, 2023 7:42:29 GMT
Let me give this a try:
An earlier unification of the Kingdoms of Portugal, Castile and Aragon has resulted in Portugal being more focused on the New World, neglecting their other eastern explorations. The task of finding a more eastern sea route to Asia fell to France, as a result of the Italian Wars being butterflied due to Girolamo Savonarola deciding to not push his luck in attempting his revolution in Florence. As a result, the spice route to Asia would eventually be built by the French, resulting in its exposure to the various spices that it has acquired in its pit stops in southern India, modern day Sri Lanka and eventually making their way to Japan and the Ryukyu Kingdom.
The cultural and culinary interaction between French explorers and merchants, and their Japanese and Ryukyuan counterparts had resulted in France's introduction of sheep domestication to the Ryukyu Kingdom, which had a more lax attitude towards meat consumption, compared to their Japanese cousins. Goat cultivation was also introduced at the same time, though with the Japanese, they only accepted tradition of raising sheep and goats for their wool and milk respectively. In turn, the French would adopt the taro for most of their culinary diets, as well as seitans (wheat gluten).
1) Blanquette de Boisson: Based on the Blanquette de Veau, but it is substituted with herring or other kinds of fish normally found on France's northern coasts. However, its most unique feature is the inclusion of taro acquired from the Ryukyu Kingdom and Seitan from the rest of East Asia. Luffa is sometimes used in place of taro, though the cuisine itself didn't really catch on until the late 19th century.
2) Rice flour baguette: Based on the French baguette, but using grounded rice flour instead of wheat, rice flour baguette has become a rather popular staple food among Ryukyuans as it was easy to make and easy to carry by fishermen while out on the sea. While the storage of cooked rice would sometimes be more of a liability if it should go bad, rice flour baguette can be eaten warm or cold. A popular food has emerged from the use of rice flour baguette, in the form of a Tarama.
3) Tarama: Grab a rice flour baguette, and slice it into halves, but not fully sliced. Then place fresh seaweed inside, and put sliced raw gurukun or sorero fish, or tofu, on top of the seaweed. Alternatively, one could also placed smoked fish into the rice flour baguette.
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Post by Max Sinister on Jun 6, 2023 22:50:59 GMT
While we're at Japanese and European cuisine cross-pollinating: I used to think that tempura was genuinely Japanese, having eaten it so often in Japanese restaurant, but it's influenced from Portugese cuisine. If the Japanese never let them in, or a different power - no tempura. Even if it'd be a sad thing.
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Jun 7, 2023 1:43:51 GMT
While we're at Japanese and European cuisine cross-pollinating: I used to think that tempura was genuinely Japanese, having eaten it so often in Japanese restaurant, but it's influenced from Portugese cuisine. If the Japanese never let them in, or a different power - no tempura. Even if it'd be a sad thing. On the plus side, a different European power being influential in Japan would have a possible influence on the cuisines that can come out of it. It's sad that there isn't a fusion between Dutch and Japanese cuisines, given the Dutch controlling the floating port of Dejima. |
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Post by Max Sinister on Jun 7, 2023 2:29:34 GMT
While we're at Japanese and European cuisine cross-pollinating: I used to think that tempura was genuinely Japanese, having eaten it so often in Japanese restaurant, but it's influenced from Portugese cuisine. If the Japanese never let them in, or a different power - no tempura. Even if it'd be a sad thing. On the plus side, a different European power being influential in Japan would have a possible influence on the cuisines that can come out of it. It's sad that there isn't a fusion between Dutch and Japanese cuisines, given the Dutch controlling the floating port of Dejima. Not to mention all the time they spent in Nagasaki.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jun 7, 2023 13:16:22 GMT
This is absolutely one of my areas and passions, so I do intend to post here when I get a day over the weekend.
To begin: Halford's Leicester sauce continues on, becoming something of a rival to Lea and Perrin's Worcestershire sauce.
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Zyobot
Fleet admiral
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Posts: 17,134
Likes: 7,189
|
Post by Zyobot on Jun 7, 2023 22:48:44 GMT
This is absolutely one of my areas and passions, so I do intend to post here when I get a day over the weekend. To begin: Halford's Leicester sauce continues on, becoming something of a rival to Lea and Perrin's Worcestershire sauce. Very well; I look forward to your future posts, then. 👍
When you're free, I don't suppose you have any recommended reading on food history specifically? Have some "smatterings" of knowledge here and there, but not a very "substantial" or "wholistic" understanding of how certain cuisines or national palettes have evolved over time.
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Jun 8, 2023 4:41:56 GMT
Speaking of which, there's one other thing that I would also like to ask:
How likely is it that there would be a kind of development of what we now call authentic Chinese food in a Taiping Rebellion that ended in a Balkanized China? Given that Xinjiang and Mongolia would break off, while there would be a rump Qing state based in Manchuria and northern China, would that actually have a positive or negative effect on the evolution of Chinese culinary tradition?
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Post by simon darkshade on Jun 19, 2023 2:42:08 GMT
This is absolutely one of my areas and passions, so I do intend to post here when I get a day over the weekend. To begin: Halford's Leicester sauce continues on, becoming something of a rival to Lea and Perrin's Worcestershire sauce. Very well; I look forward to your future posts, then. 👍
When you're free, I don't suppose you have any recommended reading on food history specifically? Have some "smatterings" of knowledge here and there, but not a very "substantial" or "wholistic" understanding of how certain cuisines or national palettes have evolved over time.
I've got a quick 5 minutes now, so can attempt to answer the second part a bit: - The Food of a Younger Land by Mark Kurlansky is an excellent one on early 20th century American food - The best generalist histories in my view are the Time Life Foods of the World series from the late 1960s and early 1970s en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foods_of_the_WorldGorgeous photography, excellent writing and good historical background on development. Quite a few should be on Scribd for free, for starters |
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Zyobot
Fleet admiral
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Posts: 17,134
Likes: 7,189
|
Post by Zyobot on Jun 19, 2023 17:33:55 GMT
Very well; I look forward to your future posts, then. 👍
When you're free, I don't suppose you have any recommended reading on food history specifically? Have some "smatterings" of knowledge here and there, but not a very "substantial" or "wholistic" understanding of how certain cuisines or national palettes have evolved over time.
I've got a quick 5 minutes now, so can attempt to answer the second part a bit: - The Food of a Younger Land by Mark Kurlansky is an excellent one on early 20th century American food - The best generalist histories in my view are the Time Life Foods of the World series from the late 1960s and early 1970s en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foods_of_the_WorldGorgeous photography, excellent writing and good historical background on development. Quite a few should be on Scribd for free, for starters Thanks for recommendations. I will investigate those further shortly. |
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