mrsticka
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Post by mrsticka on Apr 16, 2023 0:24:47 GMT
What if in 1492-93 when Columbus first discovered America, he did not mistake the indigenous people there for Indians? He still doesn't know where he is, but he knows he's not in India and therefore doesn't call them Indians. Instead, he just calls them Natives and that's what they've been known as ever since. So as the years and centuries go by, the indigenous people of America are commonly known as Natives and not Indians.
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Apr 16, 2023 2:55:15 GMT
What if in 1492-93 when Columbus first discovered America, he did not mistake the indigenous people there for Indians? He still doesn't know where he is, but he knows he's not in India and therefore doesn't call them Indians. Instead, he just calls them Natives and that's what they've been known as ever since. So as the years and centuries go by, the indigenous people of America are commonly known as Natives and not Indians. Why not "Taino"? That is what they called themselve. Columbus had friars who recorded this fact which is how we know it. |
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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 16, 2023 3:36:54 GMT
The thing is, he was dead sure he was in India even if he wasn't, so why should he of all people insist on not calling them Indians?
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mrsticka
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Post by mrsticka on Apr 16, 2023 4:52:18 GMT
The thing is, he was dead sure he was in India even if he wasn't, so why should he of all people insist on not calling them Indians? Because they're not Indians. |
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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 16, 2023 6:31:41 GMT
The thing is, he was dead sure he was in India even if he wasn't, so why should he of all people insist on not calling them Indians? Because they're not Indians. Yeah, we all know - but he mistook them. Or their country. Both of them.
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mrsticka
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Post by mrsticka on Apr 16, 2023 8:00:20 GMT
I could ask why they didn't just correct him, but I won't. I think I already know the answer. It's probably because they didn't speak English. Columbus was a human being. And like all human beings, he made a mistake. People make mistakes. Nobody's perfect. His mistake was thinking the indigenous people of America were Indians.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 16, 2023 12:32:30 GMT
I could ask why they didn't just correct him, but I won't. I think I already know the answer. It's probably because they didn't speak English. Columbus was a human being. And like all human beings, he made a mistake. People make mistakes. Nobody's perfect. His mistake was thinking the indigenous people of America were Indians. English, he spoke Spanish and Portuguese, not English, |
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Apr 16, 2023 13:06:07 GMT
I could ask why they didn't just correct him, but I won't. I think I already know the answer. It's probably because they didn't speak English. Columbus was a human being. And like all human beings, he made a mistake. People make mistakes. Nobody's perfect. His mistake was thinking the indigenous people of America were Indians. English, he spoke Spanish and Portuguese, not English, Italian? (Ligurian) He was born in Genoa and grew up in that region. We know that he learned Portuguese, the hard way, and wrote in that language by age 22 which would be about 1477 by their calendar? Spanish must have been shortly thereafter. |
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Apr 16, 2023 18:06:07 GMT
I could ask why they didn't just correct him, but I won't. I think I already know the answer. It's probably because they didn't speak English. Columbus was a human being. And like all human beings, he made a mistake. People make mistakes. Nobody's perfect. His mistake was thinking the indigenous people of America were Indians. English, he spoke Spanish and Portuguese, not English,
He visited Southhampton in 1477. He may have picked up some rudimentary English there as he was part of a purchasing expedition. He certainly had to know how to communicate with the British when he tried to get them to back his expedition later, P.S. It took me a while to find that. I knew I had read that he visited England at least once. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 16, 2023 18:07:54 GMT
English, he spoke Spanish and Portuguese, not English,
He visited Southhampton in 1477. He may have picked up some rudimentary English there as he was part of a purchasing expedition. He certainly had to know how to communicate with the British when he tried to get them to back his expedition later, 1477 English is as strange to us as Modern English is to those living in 1477. But i think we a drifting away from the OP of the thread. |
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Apr 16, 2023 18:15:38 GMT
Book
He visited Southhampton in 1477. He may have picked up some rudimentary English there as he was part of a purchasing expedition. He certainly had to know how to communicate with the British when he tried to get them to back his expedition later, 1477 English is as strange to us as Modern English is to those living in 1477. But I think we a drifting away from the OP of the thread. On that subject, I think we can ascertain that Columbus RAPIDLY knew he had goofed as those same friars I mentioned actually deciphered the Taino language and TAUGHT it to their fellow Spaniards. Thus it was triply impossible for Columbus to be deluded about the identity of inhabitants and geography of region. Not to mention that any stellar navigation that he used to reach there would have disabused him, or it should have. |
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575
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Post by 575 on Apr 19, 2023 6:54:23 GMT
Read somewhere that ancient knowledge (Greeks etc.) had it that everything to the east of Persia was "Indian" hence naturally Columbus would call the peoples Indians as part of the Region "India"; though a lot would know that others such as Chinese etc. would live in said Region.
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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 20, 2023 2:39:20 GMT
According to a story I read, he had a translator with him who knew Hebrew, Chaldaean, and a bit of Arab. Don't ask me why he thought that'd help in China, India, or Cipangu.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 20, 2023 2:46:00 GMT
According to a story I read, he had a translator with him who knew Hebrew, Chaldaean, and a bit of Arab. Don't ask me why he thought that'd help in China, India, or Cipangu. Always follow "The 4 Rules Of Planning" by Leonard Snart. |
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