lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 4, 2023 15:23:52 GMT
Sometimes I wonder if I'm not clear enough. I thought I had been, what with the orbats and so forth. No you are clear, but it seems i am one of those person who likes to ask while i also can read if the answer is already there, as always, my apologies. |
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Post by simon darkshade on May 4, 2023 15:33:23 GMT
That's alright; I thought I might have missed something.
I'm going to add some more bits on the weekend, as a means of changing up from a research assignment, and a few more bits later tonight.
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Post by lordroel on May 4, 2023 15:40:00 GMT
Sometimes I wonder if I'm not clear enough. I thought I had been, what with the orbats and so forth. In OTL Normandy, by the end of August, the Allied Expeditionary Force numbered over 2 million men and 39 divisions (22 US, 12 British, 3 Canadian, 1 Polish and 1 French). In the sixth post in this thread, there are 97 operational and 10 training divisions assigned to Home Forces in 1943 - 68 British, 16 Canadian, 6 Polish, 6 Australian, 4 Indian, 3 South African, 2 New Zealand, 1 Rhodesian and 1 Newfoundland. A further 64 divisions are detailed here alternate-timelines.proboards.com/post/180882 (54 British, 4 Polish, 4 Gurkha, 2 Imperial). The total British Army is somewhere in the vicinity of 6.4 million men, not counting British forces serving with the Indian Army or seconded to Imperial units, such as the African Army and the West Indian divisions (which haven't made the jump as of this time), and the various Home Guard elements. So the answer is simply: Yes. They have sufficient troops to 'do' the Normandy campaign of @ off their own bat. The British, Commonwealth and Polish divisions assigned to the DE Overlord campaign were to be joined by 64 US divisions and 18,000 USAF aircraft, along with 8 French divisions, 2 Dutch and 2 Belgian divisions. Does DE Britain more favor beach landing ore a combined beach and airborne landing like OTL. |
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Post by simon darkshade on May 4, 2023 15:59:38 GMT
The ISOTed DE won’t be needing to do any assault landing, as the French were persuaded to not collapse in a heap in one of the last instalments. Administrative landings are a lot quicker.
Prior to that, the idea was for airborne landings combined with hitting the beaches.
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Post by lordroel on May 4, 2023 16:07:44 GMT
The ISOTed DE won’t be needing to do any assault landing, as the French were persuaded to not collapse in a heap in one of the last instalments. Administrative landings are a lot quicker. Administrative landings with some minor speed bums towards Berlin to remove i presume. |
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Post by simon darkshade on May 4, 2023 16:42:28 GMT
The plan is to land forces in Brittany and Normandy, build up supplies, fuel and ammunition, then slam a reverse Sichelschnitt through Paris to Sedan, cutting off any Germans within France by one army group. Another AG goes up the Rouen-Amiens-Lille-Antwerp axis and a third right between them through Brussels. Each will have two field armies.
Once in Belgium, the coastal force pushes on to Amsterdam and bounces the Rhine into Northern Germany, the middle AG takes the Ruhr and goes straight for Berlin, whilst from Sedan, one AG swings for Cologne, Central Germany and Leipzig. The issue is that once Jerry is cut off in France, he collapses hard and fast.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 4, 2023 17:00:23 GMT
The plan is to land forces in Brittany and Normandy, build up supplies, fuel and ammunition, then slam a reverse Sichelschnitt through Paris to Sedan, cutting off any Germans within France by one army group. Another AG goes up the Rouen-Amiens-Lille-Antwerp axis and a third right between them through Brussels. Each will have two field armies. Once in Belgium, the coastal force pushes on to Amsterdam and bounces the Rhine into Northern Germany, the middle AG takes the Ruhr and goes straight for Berlin, whilst from Sedan, one AG swings for Cologne, Central Germany and Leipzig. The issue is that once Jerry is cut off in France, he collapses hard and fast. Does the DE Chiefs of Staff Committee (if the CSC is the same as OTL) speak about weeks or months before te total collapse of Germany and its forces in occupied Europe. |
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Post by simon darkshade on May 4, 2023 17:11:52 GMT
That will come out in the next few instalments, but there is a general desire to finish the war with Germany in 1940.
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Post by simon darkshade on May 19, 2023 16:04:09 GMT
Northern France
The men of the 152nd and 153rd Brigades had been force marched for the better part of three days now. They were driven at a relentless pace by their German captors , who had beat them with rifle butts and kicked and abused the stragglers, whilst some who had fallen behind the column had been picked up and never seen again. The harsh summer sun beat down upon them and the Germans did not deem to supply them water.
Now, however, the column came to a halt. Some of their escort had driven past them to investigate the hold up over the crest of the next hill. There, they discovered something they did not expect.
Arrayed across the road in front of them and stretching out into the fields on either side were two dozen strange tanks, bigger than any of the familiar Panzers, and artillery pieces between them. Holding the shocked German reconnaissance troops and others at gunpoint were dozens of Tommies, whilst hundreds more rose up out of the fields on both sides, along with strange hovering autogyros that made no sound. Oberst Bauernknopfer blanched at the sight before him.
”Resistance is useless, Herr Oberst. We have you under our guns and your troops are are surrounded by a crack airborne division and a tank brigade.” said a British general atop one of the tanks, his voice impossibly loud and strangely overwhelming. “We have come for our men and mean to have them. It is up to you to prevent any unnecessary bloodshed.”
”Very well. May I have the privilege of knowing to whom I am surrendering?”
“Major General George Hopkinson, 1st Airborne Division. You and your men are to be gathered over there in the field, whilst we look to our men and get them loaded on our transport.”
”What transport?”
”That transport.” indicated General Hopkinson as a shadow covered them both.
Bauernknopfer looked up to see an enormous shape bearing down upon them, like a ship in the sky.
”Don’t worry. We’ve got room enough for guests.”
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 19, 2023 16:52:42 GMT
Northern France The men of the 152nd and 153rd Brigades had been force marched for the better part of three days now. They were driven at a relentless pace by their German captors , who had beat them with rifle butts and kicked and abused the stragglers, whilst some who had fallen behind the column had been picked up and never seen again. The harsh summer sun beat down upon them and the Germans did not deem to supply them water. Now, however, the column came to a halt. Some of their escort had driven past them to investigate the hold up over the crest of the next hill. There, they discovered something they did not expect. Arrayed across the road in front of them and stretching out into the fields on either side were two dozen strange tanks, bigger than any of the familiar Panzers, and artillery pieces between them. Holding the shocked German reconnaissance troops and others at gunpoint were dozens of Tommies, whilst hundreds more rose up out of the fields on both sides, along with strange hovering autogyros that made no sound. Oberst Bauernknopfer blanched at the sight before him. ”Resistance is useless, Herr Oberst. We have you under our guns and your troops are are surrounded by a crack airborne division and a tank brigade.” said a British general atop one of the tanks, his voice impossibly loud and strangely overwhelming. “We have come for our men and mean to have them. It is up to you to prevent any unnecessary bloodshed.” ”Very well. May I have the privilege of knowing to whom I am surrendering?” “Major General George Hopkinson, 1st Airborne Division. You and your men are to be gathered over there in the field, whilst we look to our men and get them loaded on our transport.” ”What transport?” ” That transport.” indicated General Hopkinson as a shadow covered them both. Bauernknopfer looked up to see an enormous shape bearing down upon them, like a ship in the sky. ”Don’t worry. We’ve got room enough for guests.” Two question, how does the DE Britain treat Whermacht soldiers compared to SS. Second question, what the heck is that thing, a giant zeppelin. |
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Post by simon darkshade on May 20, 2023 2:27:10 GMT
1.) According to the Geneva Conventions and other laws and customs of warfare.
2.) A skyship.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 20, 2023 10:12:06 GMT
Northern France The men of the 152nd and 153rd Brigades had been force marched for the better part of three days now. They were driven at a relentless pace by their German captors , who had beat them with rifle butts and kicked and abused the stragglers, whilst some who had fallen behind the column had been picked up and never seen again. The harsh summer sun beat down upon them and the Germans did not deem to supply them water. Now, however, the column came to a halt. Some of their escort had driven past them to investigate the hold up over the crest of the next hill. There, they discovered something they did not expect. Arrayed across the road in front of them and stretching out into the fields on either side were two dozen strange tanks, bigger than any of the familiar Panzers, and artillery pieces between them. Holding the shocked German reconnaissance troops and others at gunpoint were dozens of Tommies, whilst hundreds more rose up out of the fields on both sides, along with strange hovering autogyros that made no sound. Oberst Bauernknopfer blanched at the sight before him. ”Resistance is useless, Herr Oberst. We have you under our guns and your troops are are surrounded by a crack airborne division and a tank brigade.” said a British general atop one of the tanks, his voice impossibly loud and strangely overwhelming. “We have come for our men and mean to have them. It is up to you to prevent any unnecessary bloodshed.” ”Very well. May I have the privilege of knowing to whom I am surrendering?” “Major General George Hopkinson, 1st Airborne Division. You and your men are to be gathered over there in the field, whilst we look to our men and get them loaded on our transport.” ”What transport?” ” That transport.” indicated General Hopkinson as a shadow covered them both. Bauernknopfer looked up to see an enormous shape bearing down upon them, like a ship in the sky. ”Don’t worry. We’ve got room enough for guests.”
It sounds like magic is already starting to leak out from the UK to the continent. Possibly also what makes the skyship able to function. The DE people have to be careful they don't reach too far too fast with magic items until it affects the entire world but it gives them another massive boost.
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Post by simon darkshade on May 20, 2023 14:17:05 GMT
There is magic being used.
1.) The voice amplification and persuasive effect is a fairly elementary charm/command spell applied to fairly basic circumstances.
2.) There is also illusion, as there hasn't been deployment of a full airborne division and tank brigade, but rather 16 tanks and an airborne brigade; their numbers are swollen by illusion in the same way that the Ride of the Rohirrim in The Return of the King was 'amplified' by CGI.
3.) Skyships function through a combination of magitech (focused lifting spells) and cavorite.
The first two are the functions of wizards casting spells. Their abilities don't fade away as they move out from the British Isles. The third, being a magical artifact of sorts, operates in a broadly similar fashion - it flies and carries cargo and men.
None of them 'leak' or are capable of 'leaking' as neither wizards nor magical items work on a principle like radiation.
They aren't reaching too far or too fast, as although a wizard with spells can do a lot, they can't turn the tide of a war by themselves; although a magical artifact like a skyship can do certain things, it isn't a whole new category of capacity.
The limited number of skyships are going to be used for:
- Airlifting troops to Egypt and Malta, then to other locations as outlined upthread
- Taking a high level delegation across the Atlantic for a bit of a visit to the USA to show off (which will have a mixture of effects)
- Depending on the enemy U-Boat threat, they could be used for Trans-Atlantic trade that cannot be interdicted
- However, as the KM has limited assets, they are more likely to be used en masse for shifting men and equipment to France
At about the size and dimensions of the historical HMS Dreadnought, each can carry 5000t cargo, 2500 men or 50 tanks over a transoceanic trip, or a lot more overload for a very short hop like this one. In 1960/61, the US has 52 in the USAF and 20 in the USN, whilst the RAF has 41 and the RN 16; in 1943, the RAF had 25 (+ 4 building) and the RN 11 (+ 1 building), along with 6 of Imperial Airways, 4 of the East India Company and 2 of the Royal Space Force. They cost an awful lot to build, enchant and operate and take time to manufacture so aren't used willy-nilly, but rather are conserved as national assets, like capital ships.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 21, 2023 9:53:23 GMT
There is magic being used. 1.) The voice amplification and persuasive effect is a fairly elementary charm/command spell applied to fairly basic circumstances. 2.) There is also illusion, as there hasn't been deployment of a full airborne division and tank brigade, but rather 16 tanks and an airborne brigade; their numbers are swollen by illusion in the same way that the Ride of the Rohirrim in The Return of the King was 'amplified' by CGI. 3.) Skyships function through a combination of magitech (focused lifting spells) and cavorite. The first two are the functions of wizards casting spells. Their abilities don't fade away as they move out from the British Isles. The third, being a magical artifact of sorts, operates in a broadly similar fashion - it flies and carries cargo and men. None of them 'leak' or are capable of 'leaking' as neither wizards nor magical items work on a principle like radiation. They aren't reaching too far or too fast, as although a wizard with spells can do a lot, they can't turn the tide of a war by themselves; although a magical artifact like a skyship can do certain things, it isn't a whole new category of capacity. The limited number of skyships are going to be used for: - Airlifting troops to Egypt and Malta, then to other locations as outlined upthread - Taking a high level delegation across the Atlantic for a bit of a visit to the USA to show off (which will have a mixture of effects) - Depending on the enemy U-Boat threat, they could be used for Trans-Atlantic trade that cannot be interdicted - However, as the KM has limited assets, they are more likely to be used en masse for shifting men and equipment to France At about the size and dimensions of the historical HMS Dreadnought, each can carry 5000t cargo, 2500 men or 50 tanks over a transoceanic trip, or a lot more overload for a very short hop like this one. In 1960/61, the US has 52 in the USAF and 20 in the USN, whilst the RAF has 41 and the RN 16; in 1943, the RAF had 25 (+ 4 building) and the RN 11 (+ 1 building), along with 6 of Imperial Airways, 4 of the East India Company and 2 of the Royal Space Force. They cost an awful lot to build, enchant and operate and take time to manufacture so aren't used willy-nilly, but rather are conserved as national assets, like capital ships.
Ah I thought from an earlier post that the magic and other supernatural elements of DE were initially limited to the transported British Isles but would gradually spread outwards over the world. Possibly mis-read the section under control. It sounds like such factors, such as magic and cavorite can be used anywhere as long as, for magic at least, the spell itself is case inside the UK?
What would happen if a supernatural creature, dragon, vampire, ogre or whatever which can't exist in our world sought to move outside the UK? Would have thought that would be dubious as that would breach the laws of nature here? Mind you I find it rather strange that cavorite will work in OTL Earth. If the UK has a monopoly on such supernatural abilities but can use them anywhere in the world - or even beyond which would give Britain a free run in the space 'race' that is a massive and lasting advantage.
I was a bit dubious about the number of forces that had been landed in France. Makes a lot more sense that its an illusion but enough to deceive the small guard for the prisoners and enable their release.
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Post by simon darkshade on May 21, 2023 12:47:57 GMT
The misapprehension may just be a function of different interpretations. My meaning was that the DE British Isles were transported, rather than any extraterritorial magical circumstances, locations, creatures or people.
For clarification, cavorite and the like can be used across the world, but there aren't any deposits. 'Magical' creatures can move anywhere across this new 'amalgam' world.Magic can be cast anywhere in the world, but there will be a few complicating factors that crop up; my intent with the story is not to delve too deeply into things or map out a long term postwar world, but just put together a bit of a fun yarn.
The French rescue is a simple case of using that oldest of military tactics - bluffing the enemy through telling them fibs.
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