|
|
Post by simon darkshade on Apr 22, 2023 16:07:06 GMT
The other unit I forgot to mention is the Light Division, an elite unit drawn from the various Rifle regiments and the various light infantry units. It is close to Commando standards in training and has combat experience in Norway over several years.
On another note, the two brigades of the 51st Highland Division captured at St.Valery-en-Caux were marched through France and Belgium before being put onto coal barges to Germany and thence to Thorne in Poland. That puts them well within range for a rescue.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,031 
Likes: 49,431
|
Post by lordroel on Apr 22, 2023 17:45:14 GMT
The other unit I forgot to mention is the Light Division, an elite unit drawn from the various Rifle regiments and the various light infantry units. It is close to Commando standards in training and has combat experience in Norway over several years. So it is a badge of honor for a Rifle men of the various Rifle regiment to be allowed and to pass the training for the Light Division. |
|
|
|
Post by simon darkshade on Apr 22, 2023 17:55:44 GMT
It isn’t a competitive thing, as men don’t get to choose their division; certain battalions have been attached to the relevant brigades of the division since it was activated and men are assigned to them through their regiments. There is no specific training for the division itself, but the replacement drafts are always from the best men.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,031
Likes: 49,431
|
Post by lordroel on Apr 22, 2023 17:59:29 GMT
BC is put to work on the Ruhr DE Britain version of the Dambusters. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Member is Online
Posts: 24,856
Likes: 13,235
|
Post by stevep on Apr 22, 2023 18:45:19 GMT
BC is put to work on the Ruhr DE Britain version of the Dambusters.
I think both that and a more general bombing campaign against industrial targets. Although with 1943 technology - probably plus some especially if they can use magic - against 1940 German defences - i.e. very little - its going to be nasty for those beneath it.
|
|
|
|
Post by simon darkshade on Apr 23, 2023 1:45:51 GMT
BC is put to work on the Ruhr DE Britain version of the Dambusters. No, just the version of BC - in other words BC. The numbers being talked about and maximum efforts et al suggest more than a few intrepid Lancs conducting a daring low level mission. There is also a specific reference to going after the dams in Part 2; the story isn’t that long to forget it all yet, is it? Rather than pick out individual lines to quote, it might be an idea to read their context and even review the limited amount of actual instalments up thread. |
|
|
|
Post by simon darkshade on Apr 23, 2023 1:47:41 GMT
DE Britain version of the Dambusters.
I think both that and a more general bombing campaign against industrial targets. Although with 1943 technology - probably plus some especially if they can use magic - against 1940 German defences - i.e. very little - its going to be nasty for those beneath it.
Correct, cogent and deductive. The big targets such as the Krupp Works will be the first aim, initially at night, but then possibly in daytime once the relative weakness of the Luftwaffe is exposed. |
|
|
|
Post by simon darkshade on Apr 23, 2023 16:54:16 GMT
The last day had not been at all combobulated for Ambassador Joseph Kennedy. On the morning of the 14th, he had awoken at his official residence at Prince’s Gate and driven to the Embassy in Grosvenor Square as usual, but shortly before midday, he had come over quite faint in a most uncharacteristic manner. That was when whatever happened had occurred, he had now decided.
The early afternoon had seen a flurry of issues with embassy telephones and telegraph connections and a great deal of activity on the other side of the square at Number 20 for some reason. Then the British came calling and the world had turned upside down. After a lot of work, he had spoken with Sir Anthony Eden, or this version of him. The attitude of the man had changed; the British position had changed from falling over backwards to get whatever possible from the USA to…something different.
The explanation they had given was plain crazy, Kennedy had thought - a ruse by a government on the edge of being made to say uncle by Hitler. Then he had driven home that evening and seen the tanks on the streets and guns in Hyde Park unlike any others, not to mention a different skyline, with a tower and statue off in the distance! In the skies above there had been planes moving impossibly fast and…other things…
He had read his papers, many of which had been delivered by this ‘new’ English government, late into the night. He had also been drafting what would be one hell of a cable back to Washington; the brief telephone connections had been quite garbled. These English seemed determined to go on and not come to sensible terms with Germany, that was for sure. There was something very, very wrong going on as well, what with them referring to Ireland as part of their country.
Now, on the new morning of the 15th, after a fitful and failed attempt at sleep, he was in the waiting room at Number 10 Downing Street. Some crazy fool in robes and a stupid hat had been at the door, like some stage magician in an obvious attempt to put him off!
”The Prime Minister will see you now, Ambassador.”
Churchill sat behind an expansive desk and rose as his guest entered.
”Mr. Kennedy. We meet again, as it were. A long time for me, but not, I think, quite so long for you. There is much for us to discuss. You have, I trust, acquainted yourself with the information we provided?”
”I have, Prime Minister. I must say -“
”There is much we both must say, Mr. Ambassador, much indeed, but for now, I fear I must prevail upon you to permit me to speak.”
Kennedy nodded. What other choice did he have?
”Your staff has been most efficient in appraising us of the general situation insofar as they understood it. I shall endeavour to speak with President Roosevelt at the earliest possible opportunity to assuage his willingness to accept a direct mission from us to work towards what needs to be done in the war and the postwar world.”
Postwar world? Was he that delusional?
”Before that, though, it would be best if certain matters could be broached with your government in an expedited fashion. We will have no need for the arms or planes that apparently are currently on order in the United States, nor do we require the mooted transfer of surplus rifles, small arms and artillery. I am given to understand that there has been some correspondence regarding the transfer of destroyers; that too is quite unnecessary for our requirements. In the words of an acquaintance of mine, we have been given the tools; now we will finish the job.”
”I will of course relay whatever you wish me to my Government.”
“Excellent. Matters are going to be moving quite quickly, Mr. Ambassador. By this afternoon, we will be beginning our aerial strikes against the Germans in Northern France and rescuing a division of our men from the talons of the Nazis. By tomorrow, should the French be in agreement, we will begin moving our armies back to France, and sinking the German fleet in Norway. But tonight, Mr. Kennedy…tonight will be something that will give the Nazis pause.
For we go to Berlin and burn his black heart out.”
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Member is Online
Posts: 24,856
Likes: 13,235
|
Post by stevep on Apr 23, 2023 18:33:53 GMT
So somehow the US ambassador is 'our' Joe K from 1940. If he thinks he's shocked now he ain't see nothing yet. 
Its going to be an interesting dynamic between 1940 US and DE 1943 UK. Going to be a shock for the OTL dominions as well and much of the empire. However less of a shock that for Berlin, Rome and Tokyo.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,031
Likes: 49,431
|
Post by lordroel on Apr 23, 2023 18:37:29 GMT
The last day had not been at all combobulated for Ambassador Joseph Kennedy. On the morning of the 14th, he had awoken at his official residence at Prince’s Gate and driven to the Embassy in Grosvenor Square as usual, but shortly before midday, he had come over quite faint in a most uncharacteristic manner. That was when whatever happened had occurred, he had now decided. The early afternoon had seen a flurry of issues with embassy telephones and telegraph connections and a great deal of activity on the other side of the square at Number 20 for some reason. Then the British came calling and the world had turned upside down. After a lot of work, he had spoken with Sir Anthony Eden, or this version of him. The attitude of the man had changed; the British position had changed from falling over backwards to get whatever possible from the USA to…something different. The explanation they had given was plain crazy, Kennedy had thought - a ruse by a government on the edge of being made to say uncle by Hitler. Then he had driven home that evening and seen the tanks on the streets and guns in Hyde Park unlike any others, not to mention a different skyline, with a tower and statue off in the distance! In the skies above there had been planes moving impossibly fast and…other things… He had read his papers, many of which had been delivered by this ‘new’ English government, late into the night. He had also been drafting what would be one hell of a cable back to Washington; the brief telephone connections had been quite garbled. These English seemed determined to go on and not come to sensible terms with Germany, that was for sure. There was something very, very wrong going on as well, what with them referring to Ireland as part of their country. Now, on the new morning of the 15th, after a fitful and failed attempt at sleep, he was in the waiting room at Number 10 Downing Street. Some crazy fool in robes and a stupid hat had been at the door, like some stage magician in an obvious attempt to put him off! ”The Prime Minister will see you now, Ambassador.” Churchill sat behind an expansive desk and rose as his guest entered. ”Mr. Kennedy. We meet again, as it were. A long time for me, but not, I think, quite so long for you. There is much for us to discuss. You have, I trust, acquainted yourself with the information we provided?” ”I have, Prime Minister. I must say -“ ”There is much we both must say, Mr. Ambassador, much indeed, but for now, I fear I must prevail upon you to permit me to speak.” Kennedy nodded. What other choice did he have? ”Your staff has been most efficient in appraising us of the general situation insofar as they understood it. I shall endeavour to speak with President Roosevelt at the earliest possible opportunity to assuage his willingness to accept a direct mission from us to work towards what needs to be done in the war and the postwar world.” Postwar world? Was he that delusional? ”Before that, though, it would be best if certain matters could be broached with your government in an expedited fashion. We will have no need for the arms or planes that apparently are currently on order in the United States, nor do we require the mooted transfer of surplus rifles, small arms and artillery. I am given to understand that there has been some correspondence regarding the transfer of destroyers; that too is quite unnecessary for our requirements. In the words of an acquaintance of mine, we have been given the tools; now we will finish the job.” ”I will of course relay whatever you wish me to my Government.” “Excellent. Matters are going to be moving quite quickly, Mr. Ambassador. By this afternoon, we will be beginning our aerial strikes against the Germans in Northern France and rescuing a division of our men from the talons of the Nazis. By tomorrow, should the French be in agreement, we will begin moving our armies back to France, and sinking the German fleet in Norway. But tonight, Mr. Kennedy…tonight will be something that will give the Nazis pause. For we go to Berlin and burn his black heart out.” What about DE Britain embassies that where already present. |
|
|
|
Post by simon darkshade on Apr 23, 2023 22:19:17 GMT
It is only the US embassy of 1940; everything else is DE 1943.
|
|
oscssw
Senior chief petty officer
Posts: 967
Likes: 1,575
|
Post by oscssw on Apr 24, 2023 13:22:30 GMT
June 14 1940 Paris had fallen. The City of Light was now under the Nazi jackboot and the armies of France collapsed inexorably to the south, streaming away towards defeat and whatever was then to come. Yet, as the triumphant soldiers of the Wehrmacht goosestepped through the Arc de Triomphe, a curious occurrence happened. In the West, there was a bright flash out on the horizon and a brief rumble like very distant thunder. Strange.It was probably nothing, though, thought Leutnant Verausdeutung. Probably just nothing. But he was wrong. ……………… “What do you mean a new island? Have you lost your mind, Pluskat?” ………… “Oberst Sündenbock, these reports have been very confused. What can you give me?” General der Flieger Hugo Sperrle adjusted his monocle and fixed an inquisitive stare on the colonel from Luftwaffe intelligence. ”More confusion, Herr General, or rather nothing that makes sense. Firstly, our fighter patrols over the Calais area report English planes of unknown types and frankly incredible speeds of 1000 kilometres an hour, as well as what seem to be Spitfires, also faster than previous experience. Secondly, our own airfields in Northern France have be overflown by other unknown twin engine aircraft, some at low level and unprecedented speeds and others…at 14000 metres. As said, frankly incredible.” ”So, the English have some aeroplanes we do not know about. No Great matter.” ”On their own, perhaps, Herr General. The third and fourth matters are a bit more disturbing.” ”In what way?” ”After the Calais incidents, a schwarm of our Ju-88s was assigned to conduct a reconnaissance flight. One made it back, reporting having encountered up to a hundred English planes, none of which seemed to have propellers or ordinary engines. The RAF let them go; there was no pursuit.” ”And what of this fourth matter?” ”An unconfirmed piece from the Kriegsmarine, Herr General. One of their U-Boats sighted a Tommy battleship coming down from the north near Scarborough.” ”Why didn’t they sink it?” ”Going too fast, apparently. And…” ”And what?” ”It was the size of the Queen Mary. ………………. ”What do you mean, giant zeppelins? Have you been drinking, Leutnant?” ………………. “This is the second pilot I’ve had to relieve today, Herr Oberst. Yes, complete hysteria, the both of them. He was shouting about dragons of all things as they drove him away. Mad, I tell you!” …………………. “General Brooke? Telephone call for you from London. In Hindustani.” ”Again? General Dill?” ”Field Marshal Ironside, it would seem.” Strange.”Very well.” ……………. ”Marshal Weygand.” ”General. Your message was quite insistent, but I am afraid there is nothing further that we can discuss so soon; much needs to be done to ensure that an armistice can be secured.” ”I can quite understand, Marshal. I have just spoken with…my superiors…in London. The circumstances have changed. Somewhat.” ”I think you had better explain.” And so he did. ……………… ”What forces do we have available, Field Marshal?” ”Insofar as the Army is concerned, aside those units outside the British Isles which have no yet made contact, we have 52 British infantry, 12 armoured and 4 airborne divisions; 10 Canadian infantry, 4 armoured and 1 airborne; the 3 Australian infantry and 2 armoured and the 2 New Zealand infantry; 3 South African, 1 Rhodesian and 4 Indian divisions. Out of all the exiles, we only have the two Polish corps.” ”None of the French or Americans.” ”We can state with certainty now that none of their men have come with us, nor their own equipment. Our stocks of American weapons are still present, and, with the build up for Overlord next year, we have the capacity to equip further forces as we can raise them.” “It will depend on France. In any event, we’ll get General Brooke and his men back; I’m sure he’ll be very interested to meet you.” “Very droll, Prime Minister.” “Now, Admiral Pound, can you confirm the better news regarding the Navy?” ”Yes, Prime Minister. All the major overseas fleets have now made contact - Somerville from the Med, Fraser and the Atlantic Fleet, Mountbatten and the East Indies Fleet and Cunningham with the Grand Fleet. They are all as confused as we are as to what is going on. We have also established communications with the other Navy - one of their carriers was stopped as it was coming in towards Scapa. They are…different…” ”What isn’t, Admiral?” Yep the Germans are screwed.
Considering the fact these are Hitler's boys. Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of butchers.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,031
Likes: 49,431
|
Post by lordroel on Apr 24, 2023 13:57:17 GMT
Yep the Germans are screwed.
Considering the fact these are Hitler's boys. Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of butchers. Think in 1940 the majority of the SS did not consist of young boys, could be wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by simon darkshade on Apr 24, 2023 15:03:40 GMT
Senior Chief, you are absolutely right. There were enough massacres of British and French prisoners to motivate a dark view of much of the German Armed Forces at this point even on that sole count, setting aside the atrocities of Rotterdam, the Polish Campaign and more. The SS units were fewer in number, but not in culpability.
|
|
|
|
Post by simon darkshade on May 1, 2023 7:20:41 GMT
Parsing through what arms the DE British Army c 1943 brings to the battle: - The SMLE battle rifle is derived from the 1930s work of Dieudonné Saive (of @'s Belgian Fabrique Nationale), specifically what would become the @ SLEM-1 and FN Model 1949. The .303" British is 7.7 x 68mmR rather than 7.7 x 56mmR, with ammunition production focused on rounds analogous to the Mark VIIIz. - Accompanying it in infantry sections is the Enfield automatic rifle and the Bren. The latter is very similar to the @ LMG, whilst the former is a magazine fed automatic rifle with a similar role and raison d'etre as the FG-42 - The Sten is broadly similar, save for many of them being in .455" Webley Auto; the 9mm production is for the SOE/Resistance models for the Continent - Perhaps the biggest difference in the armament of infantry sections and platoons is the addition of the Vickers general purpose machine gun, which was developed in the 1930s from a marriage of the Vickers K and Vickers Berthier. This belt fed gun is normally assigned at platoon level, but the Commandos, Paras, Rangers and Royal Marines all frequently field it at section level - The Vickers HMG is based on the historical Vickers Gun, but chambered in .625" and air cooled; the evolution is similar to the M1917 to the M1919 Browning. There is also the Vickers MMG or MG, which is the same gun design in .303" from the 1920s and 1930s and remains in stores and supporting service - The PIAT is described as a recoilless rifle deliberately, whilst the A-W rocket launcher is a 3.75" weapon developed along similar lines to the bazooka - The Maxim Gun is a 1"/25mm automatic cannon that serves as an all rounder for the British armed forces, in service with the infantry, AAA and armour on land, in the light short range AA/GP role at sea and various RAF aircraft - Lighter mortars are very similar to the @ late WW2 era weapons, whilst the 4.5" is noticeably longer ranged than the ML 4.2", with a range of 7000 yards. The 32lb shell is slightly lighter than the German 12cm Granatwerfer 42, which is not yet in German service. Rather than being operated by the Royal Engineers, the heavy 4.5" are directly attached at battalion level - The QF 25pdr field gun-howitzer is one of the key weapons of the British Army, with each division fielding three regiments of 32. They are not the @ 87.6mm weapons and have a rather interesting developmental history: Historical 25pdr The 25pdr emerged from the historical need to replace the 18pdr field gun and the 4.5" howitzer in the 1920s. This resulted in testing and development of a variety of weapons - a 3.9" gun and a 4.13" howitzer being the main ones competing in 1924. The primary requirements were weight and a range of 15000 yards, which later dropped to 12000 yards. The 4.1" howitzer came out in front and proceded with trials. At the same time, a 3.3" experimental field gun to range not less than 12000 yards, be capable of AT fire and be towed by a motor vehicle emerged between 1926 and 1928, with a request sent to Vickers in June 1929 for production of a design. There were discussions of the concept of a gun-howitzer from 1928, and a proposal was put forth in October 1933 for a 3.7" gun-howitzer firing a 25lb shell. This was followed by discussions with the General Staff in which the 25pdr was proposed as the sole field artillery equipment in place of the other two proposed models. This was reduced to 3.45" to make it possible to use 18pdr jackets, breech ring and mechanism and carriages. DE 25pdr A requirement developed in the early 1920s to replace the WW1 24pdr and 4.5" howitzer. This resulted in testing of a number of experimental weapons, including a 4.13" howitzer and a 3.7" field gun. The primary requirements were a range of 18,000 yards and a 'field weight'. Competing experimental designs were prepared by Vickers and Armstrong-Whitworth from 1925, with the Soviet War Scare of 1926-27 greatly boosting the Army budget and driving the development of certain new weapons. The range requirement was increased to provide a means of matching the (at the time) concerning Red Army 107mm field gun. A decision was made for the dual requirements to be filled by a gun-howitzer in late 1927, refined in 1928 as a 3.75" weapon firing a 25lb shell. Additional operational lessons from the 1920s militated in favour of a flexible, long range gun capable of secondary AT fire; this lead to it also replacing the Great War era 64pdr. From the beginning, it was envisaged that the weapon would be both towed and self-propelled, the latter being based on the experimental 24pdr Birch Gun. The project continued at high priority despite the circumstances of the Great Depression and production began in late 1932. It had an L/50 barrel of 15.5ft, a crew of 6, a weight of 5624lb and a range of 20,000 yards (24,000 yards with supercharges and long range shells was the norm from 1937/38). Perhaps the most striking feature of the 25pdr was its high maximum manual rate of fire of 12rpm (some highly trained crews were capable of 16 or even 18 rpm), which was driven in part by the need to counter the high rates of fire of rumoured Soviet 3" field pieces of the late 1920s and the established capabilities of the French 75mm; it was substantially higher than comparable German and American 105mm howitzers. By 1943, there were HE, AT, Smoke, Incendiary, Chemical, HEAT and HESH shells available; the HEAT/hollow charge round only began production in June. - The self propelled version in production as of the time of transition, the Sexton, is characterised by a 360 degree traversable turret and a markedly increased average maximum rate of fire; some experimental production had begun on a clip fed version that would later confuse the Germans in Normandy where, in concert with the doctrine and ability to concentrate massed numbers of guns on targets, it seemed as if a fully automatic field gun had been developed by the British. - The same factors that drove the shorter development period and earlier production of field artillery also lead to development of a new generation of medium and heavy artillery a lot earlier than January 1939 (5.5") and 1940 (the 7.2" stop gap). Development of 6"/40 and 8"/35 gun-howitzers began in 1927 in the aftermath of the Soviet War Scare, resulting in weapons entering production in 1931 and 1932 respectively; a 6"/50 heavy field gun began production in 1936 - The heaviest ordinary weapon produced for the DE British Army prior to the Second World War was the BL 9.2 inch superheavy howitzer, firing a 360lb shell out to a range of 32,000 yards, which began development in 1929 and entered production in 1935/36 - In anti-tank artillery, the 17pdr is being replaced by the 25pdr/90mm L65 anti-tank gun. This has a performance somewhat superior to the US 90mm en.wikipedia.org/wiki/90_mm_gun_M1/M2/M3 and is capable of penetrating the DE German Panther (100mm) and King Tiger tanks (185mm) - The QF 3.75" AA gun has been used as a field piece and anti-tank weapon by the British Army during WW2 not infrequently, but also not as often as the German 88mm was pressed into service. This is because of the availability of purpose built weapons - From the History of the Tank: 1.) 'The Crusader medium tank had its roots in a 1937 requirement for a new, heavier armoured tank to counter reported new German and Soviet designs. It was to be capable of carrying the improved anti-tank gun that was projected as replacing the QF 12pdr (itself an bored out version of the QF 6pdr) then entering service. A prototype was produced in June 1938 and the Crusader entered initial production in October 1939. With a top speed of 36mph powered by a 625hp Rolls Royce Meteor, it was substantially faster than any previous medium tank in British Army service. It was protected by up to 4” of sloped armour and armed with a QF 17pdr, a Vickers 0.5” heavy machine gun and two 0.303” machine guns.' 2.) 'The Churchill heavy tank entered service in February (1940) with home based regiments of the Royal Armoured Corps. It was exceptionally heavily protected and extremely reliable, with over 5” of sloped frontal armour and had a steady speed of 25mph over all types of terrain and carried an improved QF 120mm gun along with four machine guns. 12,564 Churchills would be built between 1940 and 1946, seeing service on every continent and with a variety of Allied armies.' 3.) 'The 79t Cromwell superheavy tank, which sported a QF 32pdr adapted from the famed 3.75” anti-aircraft gun, had a top speed of 18mph and was protected by over 6” of armour. It was an unwieldy, hulking brute of a vehicle, but proved extremely useful for leading urban assaults and heavy infantry offensives. It would only be built in comparatively small numbers due to the complex nature of its manufacture and just 1053 were built between 1941 and 1945.' (Modified TOG-2) 4.) 'The Iron Duke assault gun entered service in 1942, based on a Churchill chassis and armed with a 7.2” gun-howitzer. Independent regiments were attached at corps and army level, being attached to divisions in Italy, France and Germany for additional firepower as needed.' 5.) 'The Black Prince tank destroyer was equipped with a 5.25” naval gun and entered production in mid 1942. It was designed to engage and destroy Nazi heavy tanks from beyond the range of their 105mm and 128mm guns as well as providing overwatch for advancing medium tank regiments. It was capable of a longer range than any other direct fire weapon in service with the Royal Armoured Corps.' - The Catapult multiple rocket launcher is a halftrack with 32 4.5" rockets 25pdr Production 1932: 156 1933: 428 1934: 525 1935: 634 1936: 687 1937: 713 1938: 832 1939: 1026 1940: 2194 1941: 4925 1942: 5276 1943: 4529 (to August) 6" production 1931: 84 1932: 135 1933: 159 1934: 210 1935: 244 1936: 297 1937: 328 1938: 356 1939: 597 1940: 1214 1941: 1642 1942: 1785 1943: 1247 (to August) 8" production 1932: 52 1933: 87 1934: 96 1935: 102 1936: 108 1937: 125 1938: 156 1939: 234 1940: 420 1941: 503 1942: 524 1943: 367 (to August) |
|
