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Post by American hist on Feb 13, 2023 0:17:08 GMT
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raunchel
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Post by raunchel on Feb 14, 2023 8:13:09 GMT
Without the attack on Fort Sumter, chances are that one of the other violent events that were going on at the time would light the match. There was no way that there could be a peaceful resolution once the southern states had declared independence. So I don't see anything changing really, except that some different people die and the usual butterfly things. By that time the course was very firmly set to war.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 14, 2023 12:58:10 GMT
Without the attack on Fort Sumter, chances are that one of the other violent events that were going on at the time would light the match. There was no way that there could be a peaceful resolution once the southern states had declared independence. So I don't see anything changing really, except that some different people die and the usual butterfly things. By that time the course was very firmly set to war.
Would agree. After all, apart from anything else in Lordorel's day by day for the USCW yesterday - 13th Feburary - had Lincoln say
I can't see the south being happy with union attempts to retake forts that one way or another came under southern control. Nor how it could collect tariff, which were the major source of revenue for the central government and a bitter point of contention with many states outside the broader NE region without seeking to blockade southern ports?
I suspect if the south didn't open fighting by an attack on Fort Sumter or elsewhere then war would probably come from something like this. It might leave the south in a better position as they might have more time to prepare for a war and also the north might be less united on the issue but I can't see war being avoided.
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autochrome
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Post by autochrome on Feb 14, 2023 18:38:45 GMT
Maybe there could be some possible butterflies with the states that seceded. There were states that had not seceded yet from the Union when the attack on Fort Sumter on April 11th, and the last state seceded on May 20th. Possibly they would stay in the Union longer with the Civil War being delayed a little?
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Post by American hist on Feb 14, 2023 20:36:41 GMT
Another issue we have not explored yet would be if the confederates ordered to blockade or stop through surrounding the coast of the fort with artillery barrage.
(Wikipedia and national park service)
April 12 he presented them with his answer: he calculated that he would evacuate at noon on Monday, April 15, unless he were resupplied by that time. That proved unacceptable, for the Confederates wanted to prevent the arrival of the supplies and end the crisis.
12 of April
U.S. steamship Baltic, under Gustavus Fox, U.S.S. Pawnee, Commander Rowan, and Harriet Lane, Captain Faunce, USRM, arrived off Charleston to reinforce Fort Sumter. But, as Fox observed, "war had commenced" and he was unable to carry out his mission.
Under secret orders from Secretary of the Navy Welles carried by Lieutenant Worden, Fort Pickens was reinforced by landing of troops under Captain Israel Vogdes, 1st U.S. Artillery, and Marines under First Lieutenant John C. Cash, from the squadron composed of U.S.S. Sabine, Captain H. A. Adams, Senior Officer Present, U.S.S. Brooklyn, Captain W. S. Walker, U.S.S. St. Louis, Commander Charles H. Poor, and U.S.S. Wyandotte, Lieutenant J. R. Madison Mullany.
13 Fort Sumter surrendered by Major Anderson. Troops were evacuated the next day by Fox's expedition. U.S.S. Sabine, Captain Adams, blockaded Pensacola Harbor.
If the union can’t resupply Sumter then Anderson offers his surrender to be the CSA. Considering thoroughly squadron the aDavid aid for being attacked, and makes me think lthat they would risk their vessels to be sunk when the routs are being shelled.
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Post by American hist on Feb 14, 2023 23:16:28 GMT
Maybe there could be some possible butterflies with the states that seceded. There were states that had not seceded yet from the Union when the attack on Fort Sumter on April 11th, and the last state seceded on May 20th. Possibly they would stay in the Union longer with the Civil War being delayed a little? That's what I think is that not attacking forts allow months of peace
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raunchel
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Post by raunchel on Feb 15, 2023 8:26:11 GMT
Maybe there could be some possible butterflies with the states that seceded. There were states that had not seceded yet from the Union when the attack on Fort Sumter on April 11th, and the last state seceded on May 20th. Possibly they would stay in the Union longer with the Civil War being delayed a little? That's what I think is that not attacking forts allow months of peace And yet, arsenals and the like we're already being stormed. Of course, a delay to the war could certainly happen, but that actually wouldn't change anything on a larger scale because the underlying issues that led to war would still be there and even with slightly less motivation at first, that would certainly come later once the fighting got underway.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 15, 2023 16:13:02 GMT
Maybe there could be some possible butterflies with the states that seceded. There were states that had not seceded yet from the Union when the attack on Fort Sumter on April 11th, and the last state seceded on May 20th. Possibly they would stay in the Union longer with the Civil War being delayed a little?
True and important ones, including Virginia and North Carolina IIRC. They only joined the confederacy after what they deemed Lincoln's agression when he called for volunteers to force the south back into the union. This may well be delayed some time in which case those states won't leave for the moment either.
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Post by American hist on Feb 16, 2023 17:19:33 GMT
At the height of the bombardment, Fox’s relief flotilla at last hove into sight from the north. To the federals’ dismay, however, Fox’s ships continued to wait off the coast, beyond range of rebel guns: their captains hadn’t bargained on finding themselves in the middle of an artillery duel. The sight of reinforcements so tantalizingly close was maddening to those on Sumter. But even Doubleday admitted that had the ships tried to enter the harbor, “this course would probably have resulted in the sinking of every vessel.” (Smithsonian magazine) and while I do not know when the ships saw the fort the four probably saw the attack after 10 AM on the 12th www.americancivilwar.com/authors/Joseph_Ryan/Articles/Lincoln-Instigated-War/The-Buried-Fact-Record.html
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Post by American hist on Mar 26, 2023 20:56:51 GMT
I think if the Confederates had additional ammunition then fort summer is the souths but in reality, the south can call the artillery barrage blockade not feasible because they would run out of ammunition before the deadline
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Post by American hist on Apr 11, 2023 15:39:44 GMT
Jefferson Davis decision regarding fort SumterIf the Confederates had enough ammunition this barrage would stop the union fleet just as the attack on fort sumter did in actual history. This move would show the upper south they mean business but it would affect northern sympathy negatively thorough not as much as a outright attack on the fort. I believe it would be premature for Lincoln to call for the suppression of the rebellion over this incident as a bloody shirt. Jefferson Davis whether he was president in this Tl or he is secretary of war would note that the situation with fort sumter was different than the situation at Fort Pickens. Howell Cobb or Robert Toombs or whoever the CSA president would be would be in a better position of shoeing the upper south they mean business but don't wish to rock the boat with the union by allowing the other forts to be supplied in hopes to avoid open conflict. The rest of the Union forces and Confederate waters were not nearly as important as Charleston and Lamb and were relatively far away from reaches such as fort picking and other forts in the Florida Keys. Messages fort Sumter was right where we cannot have ignore the frat by the other for it so we can ignore the thread we wanna be like go offignored the frat by the others for it of peace or goodwill Interesting facts!
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Post by American hist on Apr 11, 2023 16:58:18 GMT
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