575
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Post by 575 on Mar 17, 2023 13:36:04 GMT
Steve Well I use it also for Artillery shells but I'd change the wording. As I understand yes we did build the shells ourselves. Seems I've been using rounds throughout the narrative for Artillery shells and grenades for Hand- and Riflegrenades. My bad. But then we have the 1864 Artillery which used a mix of solid balls, shells and canister - have termed that rounds to cover all.
OK thanks for clarifying. That's good that Denmark can produce its own shells else that artillery would have a somewhat limited effective life.
PS Think there's a small typo in the post following yours above with a best missing.
Sounds like the Colonel is very eager. Hopefully it works out for him and his men.
The Colonel was all for resisting the German occupation and did everything to cross them. Concealing arms for later use and such. The man will soon pop.
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575
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There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Mar 17, 2023 21:01:51 GMT
(a post that could have been a series but I decided to put it all in here. May seem a bit jumbled but there's just so much)
Government work on supply – exports and imports meeting 11 April 1940
Minister of Defence Christmas Møller had set up a Procurement Commission of Army Technical Corps and Navy Works that was making a list of whats needed and which local Industries and other works could be drawn upon. These included Carl Lunds Fabrikker - an Enamelware producer which since 1910 had also produced Handgrenades and Riflegrenades designed by Nils Waltersen Aasen, inventor of the Handgrenade, tested during the Balkan Wars. The Works had by 1932 been bought by competitor Glud & Marstrand A/S – the Defence Ministry wanted the works to continue producing munitions such as the already mentioned grenades but also CanisterShot for the muzzleloading guns of the 1864 Army to the specifications of the Ammunitions Arsenalet – Government Munitions Works.
The Commission had been going through famous inventor J.C. Ellehammer's projects and had asked him to start production of his kerosene Carburettor. Tested 1921 in an FF49 Aircraft of the Danish Navy – to be installed in cars as kerosene was thought to be easier obtainable in the 1864 world than Gasoline. That meant loss of power output but not as bad as a wood gas-generator would. The carburettor was also useable in cars – anything with an internal combustion engine. Ellehammer Helicopter project of 1912 was deemed outdated and superceded by the Autogyro's which the Army Airtroops possessed two of but the plans and ideas were copied for possible future use. Ellehammer radial engines for aircraft and car use as well as his electricengine for cars was another matter which should be looked into. The Navy Works with its experience in building in-line engines of reliability was tasked with close cooperation with Ellehammer in this sphere. It might prove a path to reliable radial engines for aircraft which was needed at present for the building of Army Fokker G-1 aircraft and for replacement of worn out or damaged engines in operation. The Navy Works was also tasked with looking into the Ellehammer sailing ALV (AirLubricatedVessel); did it make sailing more economic or faster? Could it be applied to large vessels for a benefit in economy; the present reliance on liquidfuel that was in scarce supply in the 1864 world was felt sorely. In that wein the Ellehammer dabbling in alcohol fuel for cars, windturbines and wave-turbines for electricity generation had also to be looked into. In this dire time where the country was about to run out of fuel and basic metals anything that could contribute to keep the national engine running should be tested or made work. Of course it needed be reliable solutions. Christmas Møller asked Minister of Trade Ole Bjørn Kraft to submit personnel to the commission to work with issues more related to the general public than just Military users but also to work on issues relating to import.
Triangel Truck and Rail works had been called upon for continued production of its trucks and buses as well as railway material and engines. Christmas Møller also asked Ole Bjørn Kraft to work on this with the Ministry of Defence on the sideline mostly interested in getting Trucks for the operational units and spareparts as needed; as Triangel also produced the half-track's for Army Trucks this was vital to be continued in a world lacking of paved roads.
In that wein was the various shipbuilding Wharfs scattered around the country with Burmeister and Wain at Copenhagen the major one which also produced combustion, diesel, steam-engines as well as steel. The latter needing import of iron to continue. Besides Triangel the Frichs works at Aarhus produced railroad and other engines while Scandia at Randers, Jutland, build waggons of different kinds for the railways. All these heavy industries needed metals of various kinds and power to keep going. The output of these would also be export items such as steamengines and railway equipment. The railway rolling stock was thought to be a possible export to Europe still in the infancy of railway building. Steam thought to be the most obvious choice though also a number of dieselelectric or gasoline driven motortrains could be a possibility. Some Stephenson and Esslingen steamlocomotives were running on local private Railways so a direct comparison possible within Denmark of the modern Litra E, H, R and S models with the Q switcher model for shorter lines. As the S and Q both had internal watertanks and coal storage a Litra V tender could be offered to extend their range.
The metals could be found in Sweden-Norway and Britain besides agricultural produce engines, steamlocomotives and ships ought to be the trade items.
Christmas Møller also had another card in his hand; wireless telegraphy – the Royal Navy would give its right arm for being able to continously stay in contact with every ship all over the World!
Modern Arms mainly so Artillery and Automatic weapons was to be held close until a later date.
Minister of Trade, Ole Bjørn Kraft, Conservative Party and Minister of Agriculture, Thomas Madsen-Mygdahl, Liberal Party both had a close cooperation with Christmas Møller as his needs were also the national needs. Fuel for heating, trains and cars were needed by all and also fabrication of other items where metals were an important raw material. Coffee a most indispensable commodity was on ration but access would surely secure public backing so had to be established which would entail dealing with South American nations such as Colombia and Brazil; the West Indies would be the natural treadstone in the Western Hemisphere. Oil, diesel, kerosene and gasoline could be obtained from Romania. USA was out of the question at the moment. The Middle East oilindustry hadn't been developed until the late 1920's and 30's and going into the Ottoman Empire with the knowledge of history wasn't deemed advisable at the moment. The import of the large Medical Industry would also need a lot of materials imports to thrive and supply the European market.
Thomas Madsen-Mygdal Minister of Agriculture informed that the planting of seeds had been delayed due to the situation though that meant the farmers saving the seeds for planting thus saving money on buying from abroad. Madsen-Mygdal informed Government that the real problem the agricultural sector faced was the loss of markets mainly in Europe – the sector had been tailored to producing beef, bacon, butter and eggs for export and needed importing foodstuffs for the animal production. This also meant that the major part of cereals for human consumption had been imported! Madsen-Mygdal looked around the table: ”I really really hate having to utter this but we may have to change the priorities of the Agricultural Sector – at least till we have come through this crisis..”
Stauning PM: ”I know how that hurts You Madsen-Mygdal and me too as the Agricultural Sector is generating the major income of the nation. But we have to see this through.”
Madsen-Mygdal: ”The consolation is in knowing that 1939 was a good harvest only smaller than 1838 which was a record one. Unfortunately the winter seeding have now been prolonged by 2 months which I fear will have a very negative impact on cereals.. though on the other hand this crisis may lead to less Dairycattle for the production of Butter which is most expensive – that would also made for beef to be sold a reasobable prices though I don't see Government subsidizing..”
Stauning PM: ”No – we all have to carry our part of the burden.”
Madsen-Mygdal: ”Regarding Horses and Cattle the vaccination of the South Jutland Horses last year seems a godsend today – usually Foot- and Mouth Disease would enter the country from the south. This will make for much relief I expect.”
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 17, 2023 21:06:06 GMT
(a post that could have been a series but I decided to put it all in here. May seem a bit jumbled but there's just so much) Government work on supply – exports and imports meeting 11 April 1940 Minister of Defence Christmas Møller had set up a Procurement Commission of Army Technical Corps and Navy Works that was making a list of whats needed and which local Industries and other works could be drawn upon. These included Carl Lunds Fabrikker - an Enamelware producer which since 1910 had also produced Handgrenades and Riflegrenades designed by Nils Waltersen Aasen, inventor of the Handgrenade, tested during the Balkan Wars. The Works had by 1932 been bought by competitor Glud & Marstrand A/S – the Defence Ministry wanted the works to continue producing munitions such as the already mentioned grenades but also CanisterShot for the muzzleloading guns of the 1864 Army to the specifications of the Ammunitions Arsenalet – Government Munitions Works. The Commission had been going through famous inventor J.C. Ellehammer's projects and had asked him to start production of his kerosene Carburettor. Tested 1921 in an FF49 Aircraft of the Danish Navy – to be installed in cars as kerosene was thought to be easier obtainable in the 1864 world than Gasoline. That meant loss of power output but not as bad as a wood gas-generator would. The carburettor was also useable in cars – anything with an internal combustion engine. Ellehammer Helicopter project of 1912 was deemed outdated and superceded by the Autogyro's which the Army Airtroops possessed two of but the plans and ideas were copied for possible future use. Ellehammer radial engines for aircraft and car use as well as his electricengine for cars was another matter which should be looked into. The Navy Works with its experience in building in-line engines of reliability was tasked with close cooperation with Ellehammer in this sphere. It might prove a path to reliable radial engines for aircraft which was needed at present for the building of Army Fokker G-1 aircraft and for replacement of worn out or damaged engines in operation. The Navy Works was also tasked with looking into the Ellehammer sailing ALV (AirLubricatedVessel); did it make sailing more economic or faster? Could it be applied to large vessels for a benefit in economy; the present reliance on liquidfuel that was in scarce supply in the 1864 world was felt sorely. In that wein the Ellehammer dabbling in alcohol fuel for cars, windturbines and wave-turbines for electricity generation had also to be looked into. In this dire time where the country was about to run out of fuel and basic metals anything that could contribute to keep the national engine running should be tested or made work. Of course it needed be reliable solutions. Christmas Møller asked Minister of Trade Ole Bjørn Kraft to submit personnel to the commission to work with issues more related to the general public than just Military users but also to work on issues relating to import. Triangel Truck and Rail works had been called upon for continued production of its trucks and buses as well as railway material and engines. Christmas Møller also asked Ole Bjørn Kraft to work on this with the Ministry of Defence on the sideline mostly interested in getting Trucks for the operational units and spareparts as needed; as Triangel also produced the half-track's for Army Trucks this was vital to be continued in a world lacking of paved roads. In that wein was the various shipbuilding Wharfs scattered around the country with Burmeister and Wain at Copenhagen the major one which also produced combustion, diesel, steam-engines as well as steel. The latter needing import of iron to continue. Besides Triangel the Frichs works at Aarhus produced railroad and other engines while Scandia at Randers, Jutland, build waggons of different kinds for the railways. All these heavy industries needed metals of various kinds and power to keep going. The output of these would also be export items such as steamengines and railway equipment. The railway rolling stock was thought to be a possible export to Europe still in the infancy of railway building. Steam thought to be the most obvious choice though also a number of dieselelectric or gasoline driven motortrains could be a possibility. Some Stephenson and Esslingen steamlocomotives were running on local private Railways so a direct comparison possible within Denmark of the modern Litra E, H, R and S models with the Q switcher model for shorter lines. As the S and Q both had internal watertanks and coal storage a Litra V tender could be offered to extend their range. The metals could be found in Sweden-Norway and Britain besides agricultural produce engines, steamlocomotives and ships ought to be the trade items. Christmas Møller also had another card in his hand; wireless telegraphy – the Royal Navy would give its right arm for being able to continously stay in contact with every ship all over the World! Modern Arms mainly so Artillery and Automatic weapons was to be held close until a later date. Minister of Trade, Ole Bjørn Kraft, Conservative Party and Minister of Agriculture, Thomas Madsen-Mygdahl, Liberal Party both had a close cooperation with Christmas Møller as his needs were also the national needs. Fuel for heating, trains and cars were needed by all and also fabrication of other items where metals were an important raw material. Coffee a most indispensable commodity was on ration but access would surely secure public backing so had to be established which would entail dealing with South American nations such as Colombia and Brazil; the West Indies would be the natural treadstone in the Western Hemisphere. Oil, diesel, kerosene and gasoline could be obtained from Romania or Russia. Galizia and the USA was out of the question at the moment. The Middle East oilindustry hadn't been developed until the late 1920's and 30's and going into the Ottoman Empire with the knowledge of history wasn't deemed advisable at the moment. The import of the large Medical Industry would also need a lot of materials imports to thrive and supply the European market. Thomas Madsen-Mygdal Minister of Agriculture informed that the planting of seeds had been delayed due to the situation though that meant the farmers saving the seeds for planting thus saving money on buying from abroad. Madsen-Mygdal informed Government that the real problem the agricultural sector faced was the loss of markets mainly in Europe – the sector had been tailored to producing beef, bacon, butter and eggs for export and needed importing foodstuffs for the animal production. This also meant that the major part of cereals for human consumption had been imported! Madsen-Mygdal looked around the table: ”I really really hate having to utter this but we may have to change the priorities of the Agricultural Sector – at least till we have come through this crisis..” Stauning PM: ”I know how that hurts You Madsen-Mygdal and me too as the Agricultural Sector is generating the major income of the nation. But we have to see this through.” Madsen-Mygdal: ”The consolation is in knowing that 1939 was a good harvest only smaller than 1838 which was a record one. Unfortunately the winter seeding have now been prolonged by 2 months which I fear will have a very negative impact on cereals.. though on the other hand this crisis may lead to less Dairycattle for the production of Butter which is most expensive – that would also made for beef to be sold a reasobable prices though I don't see Government subsidizing..” Stauning PM: ”No – we all have to carry our part of the burden.” Madsen-Mygdal: ”Regarding Horses and Cattle the vaccination of the South Jutland Horses last year seems a godsend today – usually Foot- and Mouth Disease would enter the country from the south. This will make for much relief I expect.” Now i have a question, when will this come.
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575
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There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Mar 17, 2023 21:13:04 GMT
(a post that could have been a series but I decided to put it all in here. May seem a bit jumbled but there's just so much) Government work on supply – exports and imports meeting 11 April 1940 Minister of Defence Christmas Møller had set up a Procurement Commission of Army Technical Corps and Navy Works that was making a list of whats needed and which local Industries and other works could be drawn upon. These included Carl Lunds Fabrikker - an Enamelware producer which since 1910 had also produced Handgrenades and Riflegrenades designed by Nils Waltersen Aasen, inventor of the Handgrenade, tested during the Balkan Wars. The Works had by 1932 been bought by competitor Glud & Marstrand A/S – the Defence Ministry wanted the works to continue producing munitions such as the already mentioned grenades but also CanisterShot for the muzzleloading guns of the 1864 Army to the specifications of the Ammunitions Arsenalet – Government Munitions Works. The Commission had been going through famous inventor J.C. Ellehammer's projects and had asked him to start production of his kerosene Carburettor. Tested 1921 in an FF49 Aircraft of the Danish Navy – to be installed in cars as kerosene was thought to be easier obtainable in the 1864 world than Gasoline. That meant loss of power output but not as bad as a wood gas-generator would. The carburettor was also useable in cars – anything with an internal combustion engine. Ellehammer Helicopter project of 1912 was deemed outdated and superceded by the Autogyro's which the Army Airtroops possessed two of but the plans and ideas were copied for possible future use. Ellehammer radial engines for aircraft and car use as well as his electricengine for cars was another matter which should be looked into. The Navy Works with its experience in building in-line engines of reliability was tasked with close cooperation with Ellehammer in this sphere. It might prove a path to reliable radial engines for aircraft which was needed at present for the building of Army Fokker G-1 aircraft and for replacement of worn out or damaged engines in operation. The Navy Works was also tasked with looking into the Ellehammer sailing ALV (AirLubricatedVessel); did it make sailing more economic or faster? Could it be applied to large vessels for a benefit in economy; the present reliance on liquidfuel that was in scarce supply in the 1864 world was felt sorely. In that wein the Ellehammer dabbling in alcohol fuel for cars, windturbines and wave-turbines for electricity generation had also to be looked into. In this dire time where the country was about to run out of fuel and basic metals anything that could contribute to keep the national engine running should be tested or made work. Of course it needed be reliable solutions. Christmas Møller asked Minister of Trade Ole Bjørn Kraft to submit personnel to the commission to work with issues more related to the general public than just Military users but also to work on issues relating to import. Triangel Truck and Rail works had been called upon for continued production of its trucks and buses as well as railway material and engines. Christmas Møller also asked Ole Bjørn Kraft to work on this with the Ministry of Defence on the sideline mostly interested in getting Trucks for the operational units and spareparts as needed; as Triangel also produced the half-track's for Army Trucks this was vital to be continued in a world lacking of paved roads. In that wein was the various shipbuilding Wharfs scattered around the country with Burmeister and Wain at Copenhagen the major one which also produced combustion, diesel, steam-engines as well as steel. The latter needing import of iron to continue. Besides Triangel the Frichs works at Aarhus produced railroad and other engines while Scandia at Randers, Jutland, build waggons of different kinds for the railways. All these heavy industries needed metals of various kinds and power to keep going. The output of these would also be export items such as steamengines and railway equipment. The railway rolling stock was thought to be a possible export to Europe still in the infancy of railway building. Steam thought to be the most obvious choice though also a number of dieselelectric or gasoline driven motortrains could be a possibility. Some Stephenson and Esslingen steamlocomotives were running on local private Railways so a direct comparison possible within Denmark of the modern Litra E, H, R and S models with the Q switcher model for shorter lines. As the S and Q both had internal watertanks and coal storage a Litra V tender could be offered to extend their range. The metals could be found in Sweden-Norway and Britain besides agricultural produce engines, steamlocomotives and ships ought to be the trade items. Christmas Møller also had another card in his hand; wireless telegraphy – the Royal Navy would give its right arm for being able to continously stay in contact with every ship all over the World! Modern Arms mainly so Artillery and Automatic weapons was to be held close until a later date. Minister of Trade, Ole Bjørn Kraft, Conservative Party and Minister of Agriculture, Thomas Madsen-Mygdahl, Liberal Party both had a close cooperation with Christmas Møller as his needs were also the national needs. Fuel for heating, trains and cars were needed by all and also fabrication of other items where metals were an important raw material. Coffee a most indispensable commodity was on ration but access would surely secure public backing so had to be established which would entail dealing with South American nations such as Colombia and Brazil; the West Indies would be the natural treadstone in the Western Hemisphere. Oil, diesel, kerosene and gasoline could be obtained from Romania or Russia. Galizia and the USA was out of the question at the moment. The Middle East oilindustry hadn't been developed until the late 1920's and 30's and going into the Ottoman Empire with the knowledge of history wasn't deemed advisable at the moment. The import of the large Medical Industry would also need a lot of materials imports to thrive and supply the European market. Thomas Madsen-Mygdal Minister of Agriculture informed that the planting of seeds had been delayed due to the situation though that meant the farmers saving the seeds for planting thus saving money on buying from abroad. Madsen-Mygdal informed Government that the real problem the agricultural sector faced was the loss of markets mainly in Europe – the sector had been tailored to producing beef, bacon, butter and eggs for export and needed importing foodstuffs for the animal production. This also meant that the major part of cereals for human consumption had been imported! Madsen-Mygdal looked around the table: ”I really really hate having to utter this but we may have to change the priorities of the Agricultural Sector – at least till we have come through this crisis..” Stauning PM: ”I know how that hurts You Madsen-Mygdal and me too as the Agricultural Sector is generating the major income of the nation. But we have to see this through.” Madsen-Mygdal: ”The consolation is in knowing that 1939 was a good harvest only smaller than 1838 which was a record one. Unfortunately the winter seeding have now been prolonged by 2 months which I fear will have a very negative impact on cereals.. though on the other hand this crisis may lead to less Dairycattle for the production of Butter which is most expensive – that would also made for beef to be sold a reasobable prices though I don't see Government subsidizing..” Stauning PM: ”No – we all have to carry our part of the burden.” Madsen-Mygdal: ”Regarding Horses and Cattle the vaccination of the South Jutland Horses last year seems a godsend today – usually Foot- and Mouth Disease would enter the country from the south. This will make for much relief I expect.” Now i have a question, when will this come. Here too!! also asked at AHcom - no it isn't. It was plates of soft steel used. Musket and Dreyse shots may not penetrate but it would be a waste of resources. BTW the roads outsiden Denmark is much too bad for such.
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575
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There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Mar 18, 2023 9:11:58 GMT
Copenhagen Ministry of Defence 11 April 1940
New Minister of Defence Christmas Møller meeting with Commanders – Vice-Admiral Rechnitzer was informed of the position of his senior Officers but also of the political want to perform immediately and vigorously which the situation demanded and which the MoD found the Vice-Admiral lacking in. Post meeting Christmas Møller informed Vice-Admiral Rechnitzer that he was relived of command and dismissed, Rear-Admiral Briand de Crevecoeur Commander Coastal Fleet promoted to Navy Commander, Captain Evers promoted Rear-Admiral Commander 2. Squadron and transferred to Niels Juel. Rear-Admiral Hammerich staying as Chief of Staff and head of Navy Office in the Ministry.
Army Commander General Prior expressed doubts about the abilities of his Chief of Staff Lieutenantgeneral Ebbe Gørtz in a war situation which called for determination as well as a sure grasp of the situation. Gørtz viewed an administrator not really up to the job during wartime and who had spend the night 8-9 April in his home instead of in office at such a crucial time. His operational planning also left much to be desired. General Prior asked Gørtz be sidelined someway like adjudant to his Majesty – a bit unusual post for a General officer. Instead General Prior asked Colonel C.D.O. Lunn commander 2. Artillery Regiment take the position of Chief of Staff. Lunn had headed the International Control Commission on the French-Spanish border during the Spanish Civil War upon French request. Lunn had been Secretary to the Turk-Syrian Border Commission 1926-30 and prior to that 1925 served with a French Artillery Regiment.
Christmas Møller thanked the General but found having Col. Lunn advance to Chief of Staff might be more than adviseable and instead decided to promote Majorgeneral H.A. Rolsted Commander Sjælland Division to Chief of Staff and Col. Lunn to Majorgeneral Commander Sjælland Division. Rolsted also an Artillery Officer who had served in France and attended École supérieure de Guerre written textbooks on Army Organization and Staff Fieldwork seemed the choice and Christmas Møller would avoid too much friction within the upper Officers echelon.
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stevep
Fleet admiral
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Post by stevep on Mar 18, 2023 11:57:50 GMT
(a post that could have been a series but I decided to put it all in here. May seem a bit jumbled but there's just so much) Government work on supply – exports and imports meeting 11 April 1940 Minister of Defence Christmas Møller had set up a Procurement Commission of Army Technical Corps and Navy Works that was making a list of whats needed and which local Industries and other works could be drawn upon. These included Carl Lunds Fabrikker - an Enamelware producer which since 1910 had also produced Handgrenades and Riflegrenades designed by Nils Waltersen Aasen, inventor of the Handgrenade, tested during the Balkan Wars. The Works had by 1932 been bought by competitor Glud & Marstrand A/S – the Defence Ministry wanted the works to continue producing munitions such as the already mentioned grenades but also CanisterShot for the muzzleloading guns of the 1864 Army to the specifications of the Ammunitions Arsenalet – Government Munitions Works. The Commission had been going through famous inventor J.C. Ellehammer's projects and had asked him to start production of his kerosene Carburettor. Tested 1921 in an FF49 Aircraft of the Danish Navy – to be installed in cars as kerosene was thought to be easier obtainable in the 1864 world than Gasoline. That meant loss of power output but not as bad as a wood gas-generator would. The carburettor was also useable in cars – anything with an internal combustion engine. Ellehammer Helicopter project of 1912 was deemed outdated and superceded by the Autogyro's which the Army Airtroops possessed two of but the plans and ideas were copied for possible future use. Ellehammer radial engines for aircraft and car use as well as his electricengine for cars was another matter which should be looked into. The Navy Works with its experience in building in-line engines of reliability was tasked with close cooperation with Ellehammer in this sphere. It might prove a path to reliable radial engines for aircraft which was needed at present for the building of Army Fokker G-1 aircraft and for replacement of worn out or damaged engines in operation. The Navy Works was also tasked with looking into the Ellehammer sailing ALV (AirLubricatedVessel); did it make sailing more economic or faster? Could it be applied to large vessels for a benefit in economy; the present reliance on liquidfuel that was in scarce supply in the 1864 world was felt sorely. In that wein the Ellehammer dabbling in alcohol fuel for cars, windturbines and wave-turbines for electricity generation had also to be looked into. In this dire time where the country was about to run out of fuel and basic metals anything that could contribute to keep the national engine running should be tested or made work. Of course it needed be reliable solutions. Christmas Møller asked Minister of Trade Ole Bjørn Kraft to submit personnel to the commission to work with issues more related to the general public than just Military users but also to work on issues relating to import. Triangel Truck and Rail works had been called upon for continued production of its trucks and buses as well as railway material and engines. Christmas Møller also asked Ole Bjørn Kraft to work on this with the Ministry of Defence on the sideline mostly interested in getting Trucks for the operational units and spareparts as needed; as Triangel also produced the half-track's for Army Trucks this was vital to be continued in a world lacking of paved roads. In that wein was the various shipbuilding Wharfs scattered around the country with Burmeister and Wain at Copenhagen the major one which also produced combustion, diesel, steam-engines as well as steel. The latter needing import of iron to continue. Besides Triangel the Frichs works at Aarhus produced railroad and other engines while Scandia at Randers, Jutland, build waggons of different kinds for the railways. All these heavy industries needed metals of various kinds and power to keep going. The output of these would also be export items such as steamengines and railway equipment. The railway rolling stock was thought to be a possible export to Europe still in the infancy of railway building. Steam thought to be the most obvious choice though also a number of dieselelectric or gasoline driven motortrains could be a possibility. Some Stephenson and Esslingen steamlocomotives were running on local private Railways so a direct comparison possible within Denmark of the modern Litra E, H, R and S models with the Q switcher model for shorter lines. As the S and Q both had internal watertanks and coal storage a Litra V tender could be offered to extend their range. The metals could be found in Sweden-Norway and Britain besides agricultural produce engines, steamlocomotives and ships ought to be the trade items. Christmas Møller also had another card in his hand; wireless telegraphy – the Royal Navy would give its right arm for being able to continously stay in contact with every ship all over the World! Modern Arms mainly so Artillery and Automatic weapons was to be held close until a later date. Minister of Trade, Ole Bjørn Kraft, Conservative Party and Minister of Agriculture, Thomas Madsen-Mygdahl, Liberal Party both had a close cooperation with Christmas Møller as his needs were also the national needs. Fuel for heating, trains and cars were needed by all and also fabrication of other items where metals were an important raw material. Coffee a most indispensable commodity was on ration but access would surely secure public backing so had to be established which would entail dealing with South American nations such as Colombia and Brazil; the West Indies would be the natural treadstone in the Western Hemisphere. Oil, diesel, kerosene and gasoline could be obtained from Romania or Russia. Galizia and the USA was out of the question at the moment. The Middle East oilindustry hadn't been developed until the late 1920's and 30's and going into the Ottoman Empire with the knowledge of history wasn't deemed advisable at the moment. The import of the large Medical Industry would also need a lot of materials imports to thrive and supply the European market. Thomas Madsen-Mygdal Minister of Agriculture informed that the planting of seeds had been delayed due to the situation though that meant the farmers saving the seeds for planting thus saving money on buying from abroad. Madsen-Mygdal informed Government that the real problem the agricultural sector faced was the loss of markets mainly in Europe – the sector had been tailored to producing beef, bacon, butter and eggs for export and needed importing foodstuffs for the animal production. This also meant that the major part of cereals for human consumption had been imported! Madsen-Mygdal looked around the table: ”I really really hate having to utter this but we may have to change the priorities of the Agricultural Sector – at least till we have come through this crisis..” Stauning PM: ”I know how that hurts You Madsen-Mygdal and me too as the Agricultural Sector is generating the major income of the nation. But we have to see this through.” Madsen-Mygdal: ”The consolation is in knowing that 1939 was a good harvest only smaller than 1838 which was a record one. Unfortunately the winter seeding have now been prolonged by 2 months which I fear will have a very negative impact on cereals.. though on the other hand this crisis may lead to less Dairycattle for the production of Butter which is most expensive – that would also made for beef to be sold a reasobable prices though I don't see Government subsidizing..” Stauning PM: ”No – we all have to carry our part of the burden.” Madsen-Mygdal: ”Regarding Horses and Cattle the vaccination of the South Jutland Horses last year seems a godsend today – usually Foot- and Mouth Disease would enter the country from the south. This will make for much relief I expect.”
Good and very detailed post. Highlights how many problems a country, even one generally thought of as fairly self-sufficient, has to maintain its economy and technological base even with a relatively short ISOT.
On medical matters how well is Denmark based? If nothing else it has a lot of basic knowledge about disease transmission and the like which could save millions of lives around the world. For instance on the cholera epidemics which were affecting a lot of the world at the time and the causes of malaria. Hence the importance of healthy living conditions with safer clean water and decent sewage and the like. Also probably the sterilization of foodstuffs like milk. I think its a few years before Louis Pasture proved that germs didn't spontaneously come into existence. It should be able to help the world a lot and hopefully have a number of vaccines and the like that could be sold. Not sure how much was known about penicillin at this point as it had been discovered but production was at a very low level but any anti-biotic would be a massive boost for the world at this period.
Also thinking about it they could possibly sell designs for refrigerated ships which would revolutionize the long range transportation of food. Although they might not have the capacity to product such ships in large numbers so selling designs, or possibly a deal with a major shipyard or two overseas might be profitable?
Denmark needs to make its useful if not essential to the 1864 world without transferring too much technology. Other, larger powers are going to catch up and then overtake it sooner or later but it needs to maintain a lead or at least a strong presence in a number of fields for a while to secure its future.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 18, 2023 12:03:18 GMT
Now i have a question, when will this come. Here too!! also asked at AHcom - no it isn't. It was plates of soft steel used. Musket and Dreyse shots may not penetrate but it would be a waste of resources. BTW the roads outsiden Denmark is much too bad for such. While not yet useful outside 1940 Denmark, they might be in the future.
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575
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Post by 575 on Mar 18, 2023 15:10:28 GMT
Here too!! also asked at AHcom - no it isn't. It was plates of soft steel used. Musket and Dreyse shots may not penetrate but it would be a waste of resources. BTW the roads outsiden Denmark is much too bad for such. While not yet useful outside 1940 Denmark, they might be in the future. Actually not. Sorry but the truck chassis wasn't made for this kind of thing and the plating too soft. Denmark is much better off letting the Navy handle the sea approaches and the Army fortifying the southern border - and then there's the question of Schleswig-Holstein- Saxe-Lauenburg Duchies.
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575
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Post by 575 on Mar 18, 2023 15:21:31 GMT
(a post that could have been a series but I decided to put it all in here. May seem a bit jumbled but there's just so much) Government work on supply – exports and imports meeting 11 April 1940 Minister of Defence Christmas Møller had set up a Procurement Commission of Army Technical Corps and Navy Works that was making a list of whats needed and which local Industries and other works could be drawn upon. These included Carl Lunds Fabrikker - an Enamelware producer which since 1910 had also produced Handgrenades and Riflegrenades designed by Nils Waltersen Aasen, inventor of the Handgrenade, tested during the Balkan Wars. The Works had by 1932 been bought by competitor Glud & Marstrand A/S – the Defence Ministry wanted the works to continue producing munitions such as the already mentioned grenades but also CanisterShot for the muzzleloading guns of the 1864 Army to the specifications of the Ammunitions Arsenalet – Government Munitions Works. The Commission had been going through famous inventor J.C. Ellehammer's projects and had asked him to start production of his kerosene Carburettor. Tested 1921 in an FF49 Aircraft of the Danish Navy – to be installed in cars as kerosene was thought to be easier obtainable in the 1864 world than Gasoline. That meant loss of power output but not as bad as a wood gas-generator would. The carburettor was also useable in cars – anything with an internal combustion engine. Ellehammer Helicopter project of 1912 was deemed outdated and superceded by the Autogyro's which the Army Airtroops possessed two of but the plans and ideas were copied for possible future use. Ellehammer radial engines for aircraft and car use as well as his electricengine for cars was another matter which should be looked into. The Navy Works with its experience in building in-line engines of reliability was tasked with close cooperation with Ellehammer in this sphere. It might prove a path to reliable radial engines for aircraft which was needed at present for the building of Army Fokker G-1 aircraft and for replacement of worn out or damaged engines in operation. The Navy Works was also tasked with looking into the Ellehammer sailing ALV (AirLubricatedVessel); did it make sailing more economic or faster? Could it be applied to large vessels for a benefit in economy; the present reliance on liquidfuel that was in scarce supply in the 1864 world was felt sorely. In that wein the Ellehammer dabbling in alcohol fuel for cars, windturbines and wave-turbines for electricity generation had also to be looked into. In this dire time where the country was about to run out of fuel and basic metals anything that could contribute to keep the national engine running should be tested or made work. Of course it needed be reliable solutions. Christmas Møller asked Minister of Trade Ole Bjørn Kraft to submit personnel to the commission to work with issues more related to the general public than just Military users but also to work on issues relating to import. Triangel Truck and Rail works had been called upon for continued production of its trucks and buses as well as railway material and engines. Christmas Møller also asked Ole Bjørn Kraft to work on this with the Ministry of Defence on the sideline mostly interested in getting Trucks for the operational units and spareparts as needed; as Triangel also produced the half-track's for Army Trucks this was vital to be continued in a world lacking of paved roads. In that wein was the various shipbuilding Wharfs scattered around the country with Burmeister and Wain at Copenhagen the major one which also produced combustion, diesel, steam-engines as well as steel. The latter needing import of iron to continue. Besides Triangel the Frichs works at Aarhus produced railroad and other engines while Scandia at Randers, Jutland, build waggons of different kinds for the railways. All these heavy industries needed metals of various kinds and power to keep going. The output of these would also be export items such as steamengines and railway equipment. The railway rolling stock was thought to be a possible export to Europe still in the infancy of railway building. Steam thought to be the most obvious choice though also a number of dieselelectric or gasoline driven motortrains could be a possibility. Some Stephenson and Esslingen steamlocomotives were running on local private Railways so a direct comparison possible within Denmark of the modern Litra E, H, R and S models with the Q switcher model for shorter lines. As the S and Q both had internal watertanks and coal storage a Litra V tender could be offered to extend their range. The metals could be found in Sweden-Norway and Britain besides agricultural produce engines, steamlocomotives and ships ought to be the trade items. Christmas Møller also had another card in his hand; wireless telegraphy – the Royal Navy would give its right arm for being able to continously stay in contact with every ship all over the World! Modern Arms mainly so Artillery and Automatic weapons was to be held close until a later date. Minister of Trade, Ole Bjørn Kraft, Conservative Party and Minister of Agriculture, Thomas Madsen-Mygdahl, Liberal Party both had a close cooperation with Christmas Møller as his needs were also the national needs. Fuel for heating, trains and cars were needed by all and also fabrication of other items where metals were an important raw material. Coffee a most indispensable commodity was on ration but access would surely secure public backing so had to be established which would entail dealing with South American nations such as Colombia and Brazil; the West Indies would be the natural treadstone in the Western Hemisphere. Oil, diesel, kerosene and gasoline could be obtained from Romania or Russia. Galizia and the USA was out of the question at the moment. The Middle East oilindustry hadn't been developed until the late 1920's and 30's and going into the Ottoman Empire with the knowledge of history wasn't deemed advisable at the moment. The import of the large Medical Industry would also need a lot of materials imports to thrive and supply the European market. Thomas Madsen-Mygdal Minister of Agriculture informed that the planting of seeds had been delayed due to the situation though that meant the farmers saving the seeds for planting thus saving money on buying from abroad. Madsen-Mygdal informed Government that the real problem the agricultural sector faced was the loss of markets mainly in Europe – the sector had been tailored to producing beef, bacon, butter and eggs for export and needed importing foodstuffs for the animal production. This also meant that the major part of cereals for human consumption had been imported! Madsen-Mygdal looked around the table: ”I really really hate having to utter this but we may have to change the priorities of the Agricultural Sector – at least till we have come through this crisis..” Stauning PM: ”I know how that hurts You Madsen-Mygdal and me too as the Agricultural Sector is generating the major income of the nation. But we have to see this through.” Madsen-Mygdal: ”The consolation is in knowing that 1939 was a good harvest only smaller than 1838 which was a record one. Unfortunately the winter seeding have now been prolonged by 2 months which I fear will have a very negative impact on cereals.. though on the other hand this crisis may lead to less Dairycattle for the production of Butter which is most expensive – that would also made for beef to be sold a reasobable prices though I don't see Government subsidizing..” Stauning PM: ”No – we all have to carry our part of the burden.” Madsen-Mygdal: ”Regarding Horses and Cattle the vaccination of the South Jutland Horses last year seems a godsend today – usually Foot- and Mouth Disease would enter the country from the south. This will make for much relief I expect.”
Good and very detailed post. Highlights how many problems a country, even one generally thought of as fairly self-sufficient, has to maintain its economy and technological base even with a relatively short ISOT.
On medical matters how well is Denmark based? If nothing else it has a lot of basic knowledge about disease transmission and the like which could save millions of lives around the world. For instance on the cholera epidemics which were affecting a lot of the world at the time and the causes of malaria. Hence the importance of healthy living conditions with safer clean water and decent sewage and the like. Also probably the sterilization of foodstuffs like milk. I think its a few years before Louis Pasture proved that germs didn't spontaneously come into existence. It should be able to help the world a lot and hopefully have a number of vaccines and the like that could be sold. Not sure how much was known about penicillin at this point as it had been discovered but production was at a very low level but any anti-biotic would be a massive boost for the world at this period.
Also thinking about it they could possibly sell designs for refrigerated ships which would revolutionize the long range transportation of food. Although they might not have the capacity to product such ships in large numbers so selling designs, or possibly a deal with a major shipyard or two overseas might be profitable?
Denmark needs to make its useful if not essential to the 1864 world without transferring too much technology. Other, larger powers are going to catch up and then overtake it sooner or later but it needs to maintain a lead or at least a strong presence in a number of fields for a while to secure its future.
Thanks - Denmark at this time have a large medical industry and very good doctors with gunshot wound experience from the Winter War. Also a lot of the various equipment is locally produced. Sanitation along desinfection is available. Vaccination is another issue. We had a cholera epidemic 1853 but learned about waterfiltration and didn't have any since.
At my early life polio was still a problem as was tuberculosis - countermeasures were available but it was all on a much more primitive level than today. We of 2023 (not You and I) have a serious problem in imagining the world of 80 years ago. The medicinal crafts of the time would be all thought of as hopelessly primitive and insufficient nowadays! In a 1940 setting things will come along - and way better than 1864. Another area not touched upon is Veterinarian sciences - Denmark had a huge export of livestock and ½ mio. horses still working in farming. That holds lots of potential as I used a lot in the 1914 ISOT.
Shipbuilding - Denmarks the mother of shipbuilding! Refrigerated ships - reefers - are around I'll be doing a post on shipping next just have to write it. They were apparently the envy of the World.
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575
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Post by 575 on Mar 18, 2023 15:54:15 GMT
The Merchant Marine of Denmark 11 April 1940/ 3 February 1864
MS Eleonora Maersk 16,000 TDW, sent a signal to its Shipping firm that Abadan was nothing but a village under Ottoman control. No possibility of picking up the petroleum that it had been sent for and the Captain asked for orders. Eleonora Maersk was detailled to turn home south of Africa as the Suez Canal hadn't been finished and anyway the Eleonora Maersk would be too large for the original Canal. The Captain look out the window - ”it'll have to be slow going to conserve fuel – Gnist (spark literally Danish slang for the Wireless operator) send a signal to anybody listening we will need fuel once we have rounded the Good Hope! Let me know when anybody answer – tell them to do so whatever their situation!”
Copenhagen Radio had sent an OXXO signal to all Merchantmen at sea on 9 April 1940 detailling the new situation. The signal had reached those ships at sea out of national waters – 3 mile limit – among these Eleonora Maersk. The ships Captain hadn't believed the signal and it wasn't until the ship reached Abadan that he contacted Maersk Shipping and turned around.
This had also been the case for several other of the 187 ships at sea among these the East Asiatic Company MS Kina 12,000 TDW that had delivered a cargo of cereals 8. April 1940 and immediately sailed off Copenhagen. The following day the OXXO signal reached the ship in waters between Norway and Scotland and the Captain was ordered by the EAC to return to Copenhagen with the SS Frigga of DFDS which had been off the northern Scots coast when receiving the OXXO signal.
MS Thyra of DS Orient had been east of Portugal when the OXXO message reached it and it changed course for home waters.
The signal from Eleonora Maersk was picked up by Copenhagen but also by a number of ships in the Indian Ocean – Chilean Reefer, Siam, Chile, EastAsiaticCompany Danmark and Africa going either east or west.
Among the 37 ships in the Atlantic at sea could be counted six loaded with animal fodder or corn at a total of around 20,000 metrictons, two tankers Emena and Marie Maersk with more then 13,000 mtons of oil, five other Maersk ships carrying some 10,000 mtons of phosphates, twenty-five other ships in ballast.
In the furthest sea away from home the Pacific the SS Nordhval carried oilfodder, SS Bintang 6,000 gasoline canisters, Inge Maersk 8,000 mtons of oil and four ships in ballast. These might not make it home.
Nicoline Maersk 8,000 mtons of Jute and SS Birgitte with 2,000 mtons of Rice had just left Alexandria in the Mediterranean. All these ships would not have been moving for Danish waters had not the ISOT occured and nobody had any idea of those in International waters being transported too. If the ships in the Pacific would make it home it would boost the numbers of ships at home from 246 to 301 and then also:
From Britain around 30 steamers would arrive carrying Coal – since the outbreak of War the Danish Government had insisted on any ship sailing from Britain in ballast to carry a load of Coal. These smaller vessels of some 2-3,000 mtons would carry such a load on the return journey. The Coal would unloaded and moved to warehouses at Frihavnen (Freeport) at Copenhagen Port area for stockpiling along the Agricultural produce that had been withheld from export since the start of War and some other imports to fill emergency stocks such as scrap iron.
The Hans Egede which was in transit in the North Atlantic to its home port in Godthåb, Greenland kept on travelling having affirmed it had received the OXXO call. It carried supplies to Greenland to stock up for Winter in excess of the ordinary stockpiles due to the wartime situation. Hans Egede tried calling Sydprøven on the southern tip of Greenlands but got no reply and carried on.
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575
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Post by 575 on Mar 19, 2023 10:06:30 GMT
Slesvig, Dannevirke Position 12 April 1940/4 February 1864 Weather: clear, temperatures falling – evening worsening with snow. Prussians reorganizing and preparing for crossing the Slie Fiord.
Danish Army building up position south of Dannevirke for assaulting the Austrian and Prussian Guards positions. Prussian 1. Corps still sitting in Svans Peninsular for crossing the Slie Fiord.
General Essemann had ordered 2., 7. Regiment and Jutish Dragoons supported by 8. Motorized Light Artillery Battalion to attack the Austrian positions at Flækkeby at drive them off. 2. Regiment would keep pressure on the Austrians to force them south while 7. Regiment and Jutish Dragoons would drive east to isolate the 1. Prussian Corps east of Kosel south of Mysunde. Army Airtroops would provide Air Observation for the Artillery. Jutish Dragoons would then skirt the Hüttener Berge to deny any enemy units retreat into the area. General du Plats 3. Division on the western flank of 2. Regiment east of Haddeby Nor supported by 3. Light Artillery Battalion was to turn the flank of the Austrian Corps south of Haddeby Nor and drive the Corps east or south to separate it as much as possible from the Prussian Guards Corps in the west. The Austrians should if possible be driven south towards Rendsburg. Following this force the 7. Motorized Heavy Artillery Battalion would move south around Haddeby Nor and continue to Flækkeby to be able to support both the move south but also a breakout of Mysunde next day by 1. Divisions 3. Brigade and 2. Anti-Tank Engineers Battalion to participate in the encirclement of 1. Prussian Corps.
West of Haddeby Nor General Steinmanns 2. Division would supported by 9. Light Artillery Battalion, 1. Anti-Tank Engineers Battalion and 4. Infantry Battalion 6. Regiment attack the Prussian Guards Corps and force it south.
The operations south of Schleswig would have the support of the Army Airtroops 1., 2., 3., and 5. Squadrons. The two Fighter Sqn's 2. and 5. had exchanged half their Gloster Gauntlets and Fokker D-XXI's for Fokker C-V's that would carry double the load in bombs as the fighter aircraft. General Essemann wanted as much out of his airarm as possible. The Airtroops would also act as Observers for the 1940 Artillery Battalions.
At Flækkeby sighting Aerial machines dropping bombs on them and strafing with Machineguns the Austrian Infantry of 3. Brigade broke and routed. This experience was topping op the day before of being routed by armoured and armed horseless vehicles. Jutish Dragoons took advantage of the rout to move east and then south to seal off the Hüttener Berge. During this advance one of the Armoured Cars broke down but the other continued futher south along a troop of Motorcycle Machinegunners and a Horsed Squadron. A like force stayed with the broken down vehicle to guard it as the crew would repair it. 2. and 7. Regiment had run into 4. Austrian Brigade when pursuing the fleeing 3. Brigade; the heavy Artillery Barrage and automatic weapons along bombs from above made the 4. Brigade hold its position for almost an hour before it made an orderly withdrawal south – all according to Danish plan. General du Plat's 3. Division with an additional 2 Artillery Batteries south of Haddeby Nor moved through Selk onto the Rendsburg road and down this before engageing 1. and 3. Austrian Brigades north of the Breckendorf villages. The 3. Light Artillery Battalion and aircraft letting loose on the Austrians supported 3. Divisions attack by initially taking out the Austrian Artillery Battery which paved the way for a determined attack by 3. Division. The battle raged for almost 1½ hours but the lack of artillery support made Austrian Brigades retreat south.
The Prussian Guards Corps being in the most westerly area was attacked by General Steinmanns 2. Division with an additional 2 Artillery Batteries, 9. Light Artillery Battalion, 1. Anti-Tank Engineers Battalion and 4. Infantry Battalion 6. Regiment. The 2. Division 6. Brigade and 9. Light Artillery Battalion moving west from Jagel, 5. Brigade and 4. Infantry Battalion moving south from the Dannevirke rampart to Klein Reide and 4. Brigade and 1. Anti-Tank Engineers Battalion sortieing out of Frederiksstad at the Eider – Trene Rivers confluence to attack the Guards Corps in its west flank. The Guards Corps being the smallest German unit of 12,000 troops with 2 Artillery Batteries gave a good account of itself but strung out in the mainly open terrain with little to limit visibility the 1940 units enjoyed open fields of fire for their long-range weapons. Supported by two air Squadron's that would also work as observers for the 1940 Artillery the Guards took heavy casualties. Before realizing it was out on its own in open terrain with no line of communication to the rest of the Army the Guards Corps also retreated south and east towards Rendsburg.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 19, 2023 12:25:44 GMT
The Merchant Marine of Denmark 11 April 1940/ 3 February 1864 MS Eleonora Maersk 16,000 TDW, sent a signal to its Shipping firm that Abadan was nothing but a village under Ottoman control. No possibility of picking up the petroleum that it had been sent for and the Captain asked for orders. Eleonora Maersk was detailled to turn home south of Africa as the Suez Canal hadn't been finished and anyway the Eleonora Maersk would be too large for the original Canal. The Captain look out the window - ”it'll have to be slow going to conserve fuel – Gnist (spark literally Danish slang for the Wireless operator) send a signal to anybody listening we will need fuel once we have rounded the Good Hope! Let me know when anybody answer – tell them to do so whatever their situation!” Copenhagen Radio had sent an OXXO signal to all Merchantmen at sea on 9 April 1940 detailling the new situation. The signal had reached those ships at sea out of national waters – 3 mile limit – among these Eleonora Maersk. The ships Captain hadn't believed the signal and it wasn't until the ship reached Abadan that he contacted Maersk Shipping and turned around. This had also been the case for several other of the 187 ships at sea among these the East Asiatic Company MS Kina 12,000 TDW that had delivered a cargo of cereals 8. April 1940 and immediately sailed off Copenhagen. The following day the OXXO signal reached the ship in waters between Norway and Scotland and the Captain was ordered by the EAC to return to Copenhagen with the SS Frigga of DFDS which had been off the northern Scots coast when receiving the OXXO signal. MS Thyra of DS Orient had been east of Portugal when the OXXO message reached it and it changed course for home waters. The signal from Eleonora Maersk was picked up by Copenhagen but also by a number of ships in the Indian Ocean – Chilean Reefer, Siam, Chile, EastAsiaticCompany Danmark and Africa going either east or west. Among the 37 ships in the Atlantic at sea could be counted six loaded with animal fodder or corn at a total of around 20,000 metrictons, two tankers Emena and Marie Maersk with more then 13,000 mtons of oil, five other Maersk ships carrying some 10,000 mtons of phosphates, twenty-five other ships in ballast. In the furthest sea away from home the Pacific the SS Nordhval carried oilfodder, SS Bintang 6,000 gasoline canisters, Inge Maersk 8,000 mtons of oil and four ships in ballast. These might not make it home. Nicoline Maersk 8,000 mtons of Jute and SS Birgitte with 2,000 mtons of Rice had just left Alexandria in the Mediterranean. All these ships would not have been moving for Danish waters had not the ISOT occured and nobody had any idea of those in International waters being transported too. If the ships in the Pacific would make it home it would boost the numbers of ships at home from 246 to 301 and then also: From Britain around 30 steamers would arrive carrying Coal – since the outbreak of War the Danish Government had insisted on any ship sailing from Britain in ballast to carry a load of Coal. These smaller vessels of some 2-3,000 mtons would carry such a load on the return journey. The Coal would unloaded and moved to warehouses at Frihavnen (Freeport) at Copenhagen Port area for stockpiling along the Agricultural produce that had been withheld from export since the start of War and some other imports to fill emergency stocks such as scrap iron. The Hans Egede which was in transit in the North Atlantic to its home port in Godthåb, Greenland kept on travelling having affirmed it had received the OXXO call. It carried supplies to Greenland to stock up for Winter in excess of the ordinary stockpiles due to the wartime situation. Hans Egede tried calling Sydprøven on the southern tip of Greenlands but got no reply and carried on.
I fear that many ships such as the Eleonora Maersk are going to get stranded, unless while picking up oil the ship itself is coal powered. Very much doubt there's the sort of oil, in quantity and probably also in quality that it would need in existence anywhere in 1864. Which will of course raise issues in terms of where it ends up and what happens to it. Possibly ending up around Cape Town?
Very detailed summary of ships and any down-time ships running into them are going to get a hell of a shock in terms of their size, speed and construction, especially outside Europe where iron ships are still pretty rare.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 19, 2023 12:27:32 GMT
Slesvig, Dannevirke Position 12 April 1940/4 February 1864 Weather: clear, temperatures falling – evening worsening with snow. Prussians reorganizing and preparing for crossing the Slie Fiord. Danish Army building up position south of Dannevirke for assaulting the Austrian and Prussian Guards positions. Prussian 1. Corps still sitting in Svans Peninsular for crossing the Slie Fiord. General Essemann had ordered 2., 7. Regiment and Jutish Dragoons supported by 8. Motorized Light Artillery Battalion to attack the Austrian positions at Flækkeby at drive them off. 2. Regiment would keep pressure on the Austrians to force them south while 7. Regiment and Jutish Dragoons would drive east to isolate the 1. Prussian Corps east of Kosel south of Mysunde. Army Airtroops would provide Air Observation for the Artillery. Jutish Dragoons would then skirt the Hüttener Berge to deny any enemy units retreat into the area. General du Plats 3. Division on the western flank of 2. Regiment east of Haddeby Nor supported by 3. Light Artillery Battalion was to turn the flank of the Austrian Corps south of Haddeby Nor and drive the Corps east or south to separate it as much as possible from the Prussian Guards Corps in the west. The Austrians should if possible be driven south towards Rendsburg. Following this force the 7. Motorized Heavy Artillery Battalion would move south around Haddeby Nor and continue to Flækkeby to be able to support both the move south but also a breakout of Mysunde next day by 1. Divisions 3. Brigade and 2. Anti-Tank Engineers Battalion to participate in the encirclement of 1. Prussian Corps. West of Haddeby Nor General Steinmanns 2. Division would supported by 9. Light Artillery Battalion, 1. Anti-Tank Engineers Battalion and 4. Infantry Battalion 6. Regiment attack the Prussian Guards Corps and force it south. The operations south of Schleswig would have the support of the Army Airtroops 1., 2., 3., and 5. Squadrons. The two Fighter Sqn's 2. and 5. had exchanged half their Gloster Gauntlets and Fokker D-XXI's for Fokker C-V's that would carry double the load in bombs as the fighter aircraft. General Essemann wanted as much out of his airarm as possible. The Airtroops would also act as Observers for the 1940 Artillery Battalions. At Flækkeby sighting Aerial machines dropping bombs on them and strafing with Machineguns the Austrian Infantry of 3. Brigade broke and routed. This experience was topping op the day before of being routed by armoured and armed horseless vehicles. Jutish Dragoons took advantage of the rout to move east and then south to seal off the Hüttener Berge. During this advance one of the Armoured Cars broke down but the other continued futher south along a troop of Motorcycle Machinegunners and a Horsed Squadron. A like force stayed with the broken down vehicle to guard it as the crew would repair it. 2. and 7. Regiment had run into 4. Austrian Brigade when pursuing the fleeing 3. Brigade; the heavy Artillery Barrage and automatic weapons along bombs from above made the 4. Brigade hold its position for almost an hour before it made an orderly withdrawal south – all according to Danish plan. General du Plat's 3. Division with an additional 2 Artillery Batteries south of Haddeby Nor moved through Selk onto the Rendsburg road and down this before engageing 1. and 3. Austrian Brigades north of the Breckendorf villages. The 3. Light Artillery Battalion and aircraft letting loose on the Austrians supported 3. Divisions attack by initially taking out the Austrian Artillery Battery which paved the way for a determined attack by 3. Division. The battle raged for almost 1½ hours but the lack of artillery support made Austrian Brigades retreat south. The Prussian Guards Corps being in the most westerly area was attacked by General Steinmanns 2. Division with an additional 2 Artillery Batteries, 9. Light Artillery Battalion, 1. Anti-Tank Engineers Battalion and 4. Infantry Battalion 6. Regiment. The 2. Division 6. Brigade and 9. Light Artillery Battalion moving west from Jagel, 5. Brigade and 4. Infantry Battalion moving south from the Dannevirke rampart to Klein Reide and 4. Brigade and 1. Anti-Tank Engineers Battalion sortieing out of Frederiksstad at the Eider – Trene Rivers confluence to attack the Guards Corps in its west flank. The Guards Corps being the smallest German unit of 12,000 troops with 2 Artillery Batteries gave a good account of itself but strung out in the mainly open terrain with little to limit visibility the 1940 units enjoyed open fields of fire for their long-range weapons. Supported by two air Squadron's that would also work as observers for the 1940 Artillery the Guards took heavy casualties. Before realizing it was out on its own in open terrain with no line of communication to the rest of the Army the Guards Corps also retreated south and east towards Rendsburg.
Apart from anything else here I can see some finger pointing and blame casting with the Prussian accusing the Austrians of cowardice for collapsing so and enabling what sounds like an encirclement and destruction of much of their forces in Jutland. Which would further increase tension between the two nations.
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575
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Post by 575 on Mar 19, 2023 12:47:14 GMT
The Merchant Marine of Denmark 11 April 1940/ 3 February 1864 MS Eleonora Maersk 16,000 TDW, sent a signal to its Shipping firm that Abadan was nothing but a village under Ottoman control. No possibility of picking up the petroleum that it had been sent for and the Captain asked for orders. Eleonora Maersk was detailled to turn home south of Africa as the Suez Canal hadn't been finished and anyway the Eleonora Maersk would be too large for the original Canal. The Captain look out the window - ”it'll have to be slow going to conserve fuel – Gnist (spark literally Danish slang for the Wireless operator) send a signal to anybody listening we will need fuel once we have rounded the Good Hope! Let me know when anybody answer – tell them to do so whatever their situation!” Copenhagen Radio had sent an OXXO signal to all Merchantmen at sea on 9 April 1940 detailling the new situation. The signal had reached those ships at sea out of national waters – 3 mile limit – among these Eleonora Maersk. The ships Captain hadn't believed the signal and it wasn't until the ship reached Abadan that he contacted Maersk Shipping and turned around. This had also been the case for several other of the 187 ships at sea among these the East Asiatic Company MS Kina 12,000 TDW that had delivered a cargo of cereals 8. April 1940 and immediately sailed off Copenhagen. The following day the OXXO signal reached the ship in waters between Norway and Scotland and the Captain was ordered by the EAC to return to Copenhagen with the SS Frigga of DFDS which had been off the northern Scots coast when receiving the OXXO signal. MS Thyra of DS Orient had been east of Portugal when the OXXO message reached it and it changed course for home waters. The signal from Eleonora Maersk was picked up by Copenhagen but also by a number of ships in the Indian Ocean – Chilean Reefer, Siam, Chile, EastAsiaticCompany Danmark and Africa going either east or west. Among the 37 ships in the Atlantic at sea could be counted six loaded with animal fodder or corn at a total of around 20,000 metrictons, two tankers Emena and Marie Maersk with more then 13,000 mtons of oil, five other Maersk ships carrying some 10,000 mtons of phosphates, twenty-five other ships in ballast. In the furthest sea away from home the Pacific the SS Nordhval carried oilfodder, SS Bintang 6,000 gasoline canisters, Inge Maersk 8,000 mtons of oil and four ships in ballast. These might not make it home. Nicoline Maersk 8,000 mtons of Jute and SS Birgitte with 2,000 mtons of Rice had just left Alexandria in the Mediterranean. All these ships would not have been moving for Danish waters had not the ISOT occured and nobody had any idea of those in International waters being transported too. If the ships in the Pacific would make it home it would boost the numbers of ships at home from 246 to 301 and then also: From Britain around 30 steamers would arrive carrying Coal – since the outbreak of War the Danish Government had insisted on any ship sailing from Britain in ballast to carry a load of Coal. These smaller vessels of some 2-3,000 mtons would carry such a load on the return journey. The Coal would unloaded and moved to warehouses at Frihavnen (Freeport) at Copenhagen Port area for stockpiling along the Agricultural produce that had been withheld from export since the start of War and some other imports to fill emergency stocks such as scrap iron. The Hans Egede which was in transit in the North Atlantic to its home port in Godthåb, Greenland kept on travelling having affirmed it had received the OXXO call. It carried supplies to Greenland to stock up for Winter in excess of the ordinary stockpiles due to the wartime situation. Hans Egede tried calling Sydprøven on the southern tip of Greenlands but got no reply and carried on.
I fear that many ships such as the Eleonora Maersk are going to get stranded, unless while picking up oil the ship itself is coal powered. Very much doubt there's the sort of oil, in quantity and probably also in quality that it would need in existence anywhere in 1864. Which will of course raise issues in terms of where it ends up and what happens to it. Possibly ending up around Cape Town?
Very detailed summary of ships and any down-time ships running into them are going to get a hell of a shock in terms of their size, speed and construction, especially outside Europe where iron ships are still pretty rare.
The fate of the Eleonora Maersk is probably not good as is the ships in the Pacific with no Panama Canal. There is just no oil to get in the Gulf at this time so its try to get home. Lack of oil for propulsion will be the problem it and other ships will outrun due to speed and being able to maintain it. No gasoline I expect but Kerosene which is why the Ellehammer is important due to his carburettor. Only available i quantity in Romania - in smaller quantity in Russian Poland but I'll get back to this.
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575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Mar 19, 2023 12:48:09 GMT
Slesvig, Dannevirke Position 12 April 1940/4 February 1864 Weather: clear, temperatures falling – evening worsening with snow. Prussians reorganizing and preparing for crossing the Slie Fiord. Danish Army building up position south of Dannevirke for assaulting the Austrian and Prussian Guards positions. Prussian 1. Corps still sitting in Svans Peninsular for crossing the Slie Fiord. General Essemann had ordered 2., 7. Regiment and Jutish Dragoons supported by 8. Motorized Light Artillery Battalion to attack the Austrian positions at Flækkeby at drive them off. 2. Regiment would keep pressure on the Austrians to force them south while 7. Regiment and Jutish Dragoons would drive east to isolate the 1. Prussian Corps east of Kosel south of Mysunde. Army Airtroops would provide Air Observation for the Artillery. Jutish Dragoons would then skirt the Hüttener Berge to deny any enemy units retreat into the area. General du Plats 3. Division on the western flank of 2. Regiment east of Haddeby Nor supported by 3. Light Artillery Battalion was to turn the flank of the Austrian Corps south of Haddeby Nor and drive the Corps east or south to separate it as much as possible from the Prussian Guards Corps in the west. The Austrians should if possible be driven south towards Rendsburg. Following this force the 7. Motorized Heavy Artillery Battalion would move south around Haddeby Nor and continue to Flækkeby to be able to support both the move south but also a breakout of Mysunde next day by 1. Divisions 3. Brigade and 2. Anti-Tank Engineers Battalion to participate in the encirclement of 1. Prussian Corps. West of Haddeby Nor General Steinmanns 2. Division would supported by 9. Light Artillery Battalion, 1. Anti-Tank Engineers Battalion and 4. Infantry Battalion 6. Regiment attack the Prussian Guards Corps and force it south. The operations south of Schleswig would have the support of the Army Airtroops 1., 2., 3., and 5. Squadrons. The two Fighter Sqn's 2. and 5. had exchanged half their Gloster Gauntlets and Fokker D-XXI's for Fokker C-V's that would carry double the load in bombs as the fighter aircraft. General Essemann wanted as much out of his airarm as possible. The Airtroops would also act as Observers for the 1940 Artillery Battalions. At Flækkeby sighting Aerial machines dropping bombs on them and strafing with Machineguns the Austrian Infantry of 3. Brigade broke and routed. This experience was topping op the day before of being routed by armoured and armed horseless vehicles. Jutish Dragoons took advantage of the rout to move east and then south to seal off the Hüttener Berge. During this advance one of the Armoured Cars broke down but the other continued futher south along a troop of Motorcycle Machinegunners and a Horsed Squadron. A like force stayed with the broken down vehicle to guard it as the crew would repair it. 2. and 7. Regiment had run into 4. Austrian Brigade when pursuing the fleeing 3. Brigade; the heavy Artillery Barrage and automatic weapons along bombs from above made the 4. Brigade hold its position for almost an hour before it made an orderly withdrawal south – all according to Danish plan. General du Plat's 3. Division with an additional 2 Artillery Batteries south of Haddeby Nor moved through Selk onto the Rendsburg road and down this before engageing 1. and 3. Austrian Brigades north of the Breckendorf villages. The 3. Light Artillery Battalion and aircraft letting loose on the Austrians supported 3. Divisions attack by initially taking out the Austrian Artillery Battery which paved the way for a determined attack by 3. Division. The battle raged for almost 1½ hours but the lack of artillery support made Austrian Brigades retreat south. The Prussian Guards Corps being in the most westerly area was attacked by General Steinmanns 2. Division with an additional 2 Artillery Batteries, 9. Light Artillery Battalion, 1. Anti-Tank Engineers Battalion and 4. Infantry Battalion 6. Regiment. The 2. Division 6. Brigade and 9. Light Artillery Battalion moving west from Jagel, 5. Brigade and 4. Infantry Battalion moving south from the Dannevirke rampart to Klein Reide and 4. Brigade and 1. Anti-Tank Engineers Battalion sortieing out of Frederiksstad at the Eider – Trene Rivers confluence to attack the Guards Corps in its west flank. The Guards Corps being the smallest German unit of 12,000 troops with 2 Artillery Batteries gave a good account of itself but strung out in the mainly open terrain with little to limit visibility the 1940 units enjoyed open fields of fire for their long-range weapons. Supported by two air Squadron's that would also work as observers for the 1940 Artillery the Guards took heavy casualties. Before realizing it was out on its own in open terrain with no line of communication to the rest of the Army the Guards Corps also retreated south and east towards Rendsburg.
Apart from anything else here I can see some finger pointing and blame casting with the Prussian accusing the Austrians of cowardice for collapsing so and enabling what sounds like an encirclement and destruction of much of their forces in Jutland. Which would further increase tension between the two nations.
The Prussians will soon realize that there isn't much of pointing fingers at - stay tuned!
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