575
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Post by 575 on Mar 15, 2023 16:49:01 GMT
Interesting tidbit; King Christian IX and Premier Monrad visited the Danish Army at Dannevirke on 1 February 1864! Fortunately they didn't arrive at Flensburg until noon.. That would be something, two Danish kings. Ehm, yes - darn difficult to handle though!
The story also told of the Kings visit to the forts of Dybbøl prior to the Prussian assault; the fort he visited by some stroke of luck wasn't bombarded during the visit. Interesting WI anyway..
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 15, 2023 16:58:10 GMT
That would be something, two Danish kings. Ehm, yes - darn difficult to handle though! The story also told of the Kings visit to the forts of Dybbøl prior to the Prussian assault; the fort he visited by some stroke of luck wasn't bombarded during the visit. Interesting WI anyway..
The Prussians are not that stupid to kill a king, the British among other would not like that. |
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575
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Post by 575 on Mar 15, 2023 17:10:08 GMT
Ehm, yes - darn difficult to handle though! The story also told of the Kings visit to the forts of Dybbøl prior to the Prussian assault; the fort he visited by some stroke of luck wasn't bombarded during the visit. Interesting WI anyway..
The Prussians are not that stupid to kill a king, the British among other would not like that. They might not know he was there - or perhaps they actually did. No the future British King and certainly his wife daughter of the Danish King wouldn't like that. |
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575
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Post by 575 on Mar 15, 2023 19:33:02 GMT
Second after action report of Battle of Mysunde 3 February 1864 9PM An Anti-Tank Engineers and an Artillery Officer of the 1940 Army submitted a follow-up report to the one delivered in haste the day before.
Weather had been worse than bad 2 February but today the sky had been overcast with snow but visibility much better than yesterday making it possible to give a more thorough assessment of Prussian losses. The number of Artillery Guns destroyed in situ would still count as 25 but a quite a number of caissons had been destroyed too; more than assessed the day before perhaps as many as 60. Not all blown up but made immobile in some way leading to a lot of munitions left on the battlefield. Along the retreat route of the Prussian Corps more guns had been left though these had been thoroughly made unuseable by the Prussians – in all 26 such guns had been found. To the officers it looked like the impression of the Danish Army evacuating Dannevirke 5 February 1864 with Infantry trying to haul the guns along. Also a large number of dead Artillery-draught horses had been found on the battlefield or roaming in the countryside which had added to the Prussian loss. It seemed the Prussian 1. Corps had gotten half its Artillery destroyed or left in-operational along the route of retreat; possibly to the projected Danish fortification at Kosel south of Mysunde. The Danish 1940 unit application of counter-battery fire had been most effective even in the prevailing situation of bad weather. The volume of shells delivered seemed to be the deciding factor in taking out the Prussian Artillery. General Essemann looked at the report – hmm, better have this telegraphed to General Prior asap with copy to Sjælland Division at Nakskov. |
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Post by lordroel on Mar 15, 2023 19:42:36 GMT
Second after action report of Battle of Mysunde 3 February 1864 9PM An Anti-Tank Engineers and an Artillery Officer of the 1940 Army submitted a follow-up report to the one delivered in haste the day before. Weather had been worse than bad 2 February but today the sky had been overcast with snow but visibility much better than yesterday making it possible to give a more thorough assessment of Prussian losses. The number of Artillery Guns destroyed in situ would still count as 25 but a quite a number of caissons had been destroyed too; more than assessed the day before perhaps as many as 60. Not all blown up but made immobile in some way leading to a lot of munitions left on the battlefield. Along the retreat route of the Prussian Corps more guns had been left though these had been thoroughly made unuseable by the Prussians – in all 26 such guns had been found. To the officers it looked like the impression of the Danish Army evacuating Dannevirke 5 February 1864 with Infantry trying to haul the guns along. Also a large number of dead Artillery-draught horses had been found on the battlefield or roaming in the countryside which had added to the Prussian loss. It seemed the Prussian 1. Corps had gotten half its Artillery destroyed or left in-operational along the route of retreat; possibly to the projected Danish fortification at Kosel south of Mysunde. The Danish 1940 unit application of counter-battery fire had been most effective even in the prevailing situation of bad weather. The volume of shells delivered seemed to be the deciding factor in taking out the Prussian Artillery. General Essemann looked at the report – hmm, better have this telegraphed to General Prior asap with copy to Sjælland Division at Nakskov. So with the Danish 1940 Army using a lot of artillery, is there a munition factory that produces shells and what about the 1864 Danish army units, where do they get their supplies like ammunition from. |
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575
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Post by 575 on Mar 16, 2023 7:36:14 GMT
Second after action report of Battle of Mysunde 3 February 1864 9PM An Anti-Tank Engineers and an Artillery Officer of the 1940 Army submitted a follow-up report to the one delivered in haste the day before. Weather had been worse than bad 2 February but today the sky had been overcast with snow but visibility much better than yesterday making it possible to give a more thorough assessment of Prussian losses. The number of Artillery Guns destroyed in situ would still count as 25 but a quite a number of caissons had been destroyed too; more than assessed the day before perhaps as many as 60. Not all blown up but made immobile in some way leading to a lot of munitions left on the battlefield. Along the retreat route of the Prussian Corps more guns had been left though these had been thoroughly made unuseable by the Prussians – in all 26 such guns had been found. To the officers it looked like the impression of the Danish Army evacuating Dannevirke 5 February 1864 with Infantry trying to haul the guns along. Also a large number of dead Artillery-draught horses had been found on the battlefield or roaming in the countryside which had added to the Prussian loss. It seemed the Prussian 1. Corps had gotten half its Artillery destroyed or left in-operational along the route of retreat; possibly to the projected Danish fortification at Kosel south of Mysunde. The Danish 1940 unit application of counter-battery fire had been most effective even in the prevailing situation of bad weather. The volume of shells delivered seemed to be the deciding factor in taking out the Prussian Artillery. General Essemann looked at the report – hmm, better have this telegraphed to General Prior asap with copy to Sjælland Division at Nakskov. So with the Danish 1940 Army using a lot of artillery, is there a munition factory that produces shells and what about the 1864 Danish army units, where do they get their supplies like ammunition from. At the time of 1943 when the Germans attacked the Danish Army and Navy to neutralize them the Danish Army handed over 75,000 Artillery shells of various calibers; the Ammunitions Arsenalet/Munitions Arsenal/Works fabricated small arms and artillery shells in all calibers. 1864 Army have some depots north of Dannevirke with the main Depot at Flensburg. Edit: regarding 1864 Army - 176 Fortressguns at Dannevirke of these 108 were placed in redoubts or other works. The Dannevirke Artillery had some 174 rounds for each 84pdr. and 240 rounds for each other gun. If we go with at mean of 200 rounds a gun (I can't find the no of 84pdr. guns) that gives 35,200 rounds. Field Artillery: the Field Park/Train 45 rounds for each gun - with 96 guns that give a number of 4,320 rounds a gun in addition to the number carried by the Battery. Rifle Musket ammunition: 20 rounds for each Infantryman; but add to that the Brigade depot and Divisional depot - the Infantry reserve had its own Brigade depot. Those depots also carried rations for the troops partly in livestock. Each Army unit had one reserve supply delivered 1 February which must be in addition to the one normally carried - if this also regards ammunition isn't stated but I'd expect so.
At Flensburg the Army Main Depot is situated - besides ammunition it also held rations for 12,000 troops for a month which would translate into 2½ weeks rations for the entire Army of 38,000. It isn't stated but the Army must have thought this sufficient to supply the Army during at least the first weeks at Dannevirke.
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575
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Post by 575 on Mar 16, 2023 10:03:56 GMT
Navy operations 3 February 1864
1864 the 1. Prussian Corps had crossed the Fiord at Arnæs in the north – no reason why they wouldn't do so as it would be according to plan. The Corps had scoured the southern shore of the Fiord and the coast to the east without much Danish interference.
The Springeren, Thor and Esbern Snare had arrived at the Slie to guard from Prussian attempts at crossing the Fiord.
The two 1864 ships were entering the Fiord from the Baltic with armoured Esbjern Snare in the van. Both ships had received a radio and operator to keep up communications with Springeren and Captain Evers aboard Ingolf. Thor would keep to the wider part of the Fiord north of Arnæs where the 1864 Prussian brigding of the Fiord had taken place.
Ingolf was entering Eckernförde Fiord to take up position within range of the road with its 12cm guns.
Springeren would remain off the coast of Sleswig to the east and observe the Prussians who were regularly firing rockets when doing something like finding boats for the crossing which was interdicted with gunfire from Springeren though due to weather without airsupport it was mainly useless except the odd lucky hit. Any Prussians moving boats along the coast or by waggon in vision of Springeren and its crew of the 57mm guns was just unlucky and soon such stopped.
The chokepoints of Slie Fiord was still guarded by 1. Division troops and Artillery. A few batteries of the Dannevirke Fortress Artillery had been moved off to reinforce those chokepoints.
The Niels Juel along the modern and old Torpedoboats of the 2. Baltic Squadron was doing a shakedown cruise north of Sjælland to be ready next day to go down the Great Baelt to take station off the south of Langeland.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 16, 2023 12:07:54 GMT
So with the Danish 1940 Army using a lot of artillery, is there a munition factory that produces shells and what about the 1864 Danish army units, where do they get their supplies like ammunition from. At the time of 1943 when the Germans attacked the Danish Army and Navy to neutralize them the Danish Army handed over 75,000 Artillery grenades of various calibers; the Ammunitions Arsenalet/Munitions Arsenal/Works fabricated small arms and artillery grenades in all calibers. 1864 Army have some depots north of Dannevirke with the main Depot at Flensburg. Edit: regarding 1864 Army - 176 Fortressguns at Dannevirke of these 108 were placed in redoubts or other works. The Dannevirke Artillery had some 174 rounds for each 84pdr. and 240 rounds for each other gun. If we go with at mean of 200 rounds a gun (I can't find the no of 84pdr. guns) that gives 35,200 rounds. Field Artillery: the Field Park/Train 45 rounds for each gun - with 96 guns that give a number of 4,320 rounds a gun in addition to the number carried by the Battery. Rifle Musket ammunition: 20 rounds for each Infantryman; but add to that the Brigade depot and Divisional depot - the Infantry reserve had its own Brigade depot. Those depots also carried rations for the troops partly in livestock. Each Army unit had one reserve supply delivered 1 February which must be in addition to the one normally carried - if this also regards ammunition isn't stated but I'd expect so.
At Flensburg the Army Main Depot is situated - besides ammunition it also held rations for 12,000 troops for a month which would translate into 2½ weeks rations for the entire Army of 38,000. It isn't stated but the Army must have thought this sufficient to supply the Army during at least the first weeks at Dannevirke.
Just to clarify please does grenades include all types of shell? Only in English the term means a small explosive device that can be propelled by hand or from a rifle. Possibly in Danish and other use it has a more general term but to remove any doubt please. Basically can the Danes build the heavy shells for the artillery?
Steve
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575
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Post by 575 on Mar 16, 2023 12:32:24 GMT
At the time of 1943 when the Germans attacked the Danish Army and Navy to neutralize them the Danish Army handed over 75,000 Artillery grenades of various calibers; the Ammunitions Arsenalet/Munitions Arsenal/Works fabricated small arms and artillery grenades in all calibers. 1864 Army have some depots north of Dannevirke with the main Depot at Flensburg. Edit: regarding 1864 Army - 176 Fortressguns at Dannevirke of these 108 were placed in redoubts or other works. The Dannevirke Artillery had some 174 rounds for each 84pdr. and 240 rounds for each other gun. If we go with at mean of 200 rounds a gun (I can't find the no of 84pdr. guns) that gives 35,200 rounds. Field Artillery: the Field Park/Train 45 rounds for each gun - with 96 guns that give a number of 4,320 rounds a gun in addition to the number carried by the Battery. Rifle Musket ammunition: 20 rounds for each Infantryman; but add to that the Brigade depot and Divisional depot - the Infantry reserve had its own Brigade depot. Those depots also carried rations for the troops partly in livestock. Each Army unit had one reserve supply delivered 1 February which must be in addition to the one normally carried - if this also regards ammunition isn't stated but I'd expect so.
At Flensburg the Army Main Depot is situated - besides ammunition it also held rations for 12,000 troops for a month which would translate into 2½ weeks rations for the entire Army of 38,000. It isn't stated but the Army must have thought this sufficient to supply the Army during at least the first weeks at Dannevirke.
Just to clarify please does grenades include all types of shell? Only in English the term means a small explosive device that can be propelled by hand or from a rifle. Possibly in Danish and other use it has a more general term but to remove any doubt please. Basically can the Danes build the heavy shells for the artillery?
Steve
Steve Well I use it also for Artillery shells but I'd change the wording. As I understand yes we did build the shells ourselves. Seems I've been using rounds throughout the narrative for Artillery shells and grenades for Hand- and Riflegrenades. My bad. But then we have the 1864 Artillery which used a mix of solid balls, shells and canister - have termed that rounds to cover all.
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575
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Post by 575 on Mar 17, 2023 9:33:14 GMT
Sjælland Division 11 April 1940/ 3 February 1864 5PM
Sjælland Division informed Army HQ at Copenhagen that a reinforced Army Regiment was ready to ship to Eckernförde on the 4.
General Essemann of Jutland Division notified that the Regiment will be in Operational Control of Sjælland Division untill the situation warrant otherwise i.e. when contact have been established with units of Jutland Division.
Colonel C.D.O. Lunn Commander 2. Artillery Regiment, Holbæk, Sjælland drew a deep breath – at last!!! Putting his 5. and 12. Motorized Artillery Battalions and 4. and 9. Artillery Battalions all light 75mm on war footing had aroused him. Now he would do his to defeat the Germans as his 4. and 9. Battalions had been selected to reinforce the Regiments to land at Eckernförde.
The units to be landed at Eckernförde the next day were moving into the port area of Nakskov – Colonel Harrel's 5. Regiment reinforced by 9. Light Artillery Battalion, Supply, Medics and Kitchen services. The Mineboats had been delivered during the day by train and the Navy personnel had worked to finish them up for the transport across the southern part of the Great Baelt to Langeland and then across the Baltic to the Eckernförde Fiord.
At nightfall the reinforced 5. Regiment began boarding the boats.
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Post by lordroel on Mar 17, 2023 9:44:01 GMT
The units to be landed at Eckernförde the next day were moving into the port area of Nakskov – Colonel Harrel's 5. Regiment reinforced by 9. Light Artillery Battalion, Supply, Medics and Kitchen services. The Mineboats had been delivered during the day by train and the Navy personnel had worked to finish them up for the transport across the southern part of the Great Baelt to Langeland and then across the Baltic to the Eckernförde Fiord. At nightfall the reinforced 5. Regiment began boarding the boats. Are we speaking about the MS1 class (1941), small 70 tons boats (24 x 4.6 x 1.5 m) propelled by a 250 hp diesel to 10.5 knots and armed with a single 20 mm and a twin 8 mm MG.  |
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575
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Post by 575 on Mar 17, 2023 10:14:23 GMT
The units to be landed at Eckernförde the next day were moving into the port area of Nakskov – Colonel Harrel's 5. Regiment reinforced by 9. Light Artillery Battalion, Supply, Medics and Kitchen services. The Mineboats had been delivered during the day by train and the Navy personnel had worked to finish them up for the transport across the southern part of the Great Baelt to Langeland and then across the Baltic to the Eckernförde Fiord. At nightfall the reinforced 5. Regiment began boarding the boats. Are we speaking about the MS1 class (1941), small 70 tons boats (24 x 4.6 x 1.5 m) propelled by a 250 hp diesel to 10.5 knots and armed with a single 20 mm and a twin 8 mm MG. No these haven't been built yet - its this Ancient boat
which originally looked this
when it was a proper landing craft.
As late as 1906 they were used in an Army exercise landing upon the island of Samsø
Using them in the 1940 configuration would be a little difficult but that was what the Navy was in possession of.
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575
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Post by 575 on Mar 17, 2023 10:18:09 GMT
And in service as a Mineboat - the cranes should help unloading the Artillery and other bulky equipment  |
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Post by lordroel on Mar 17, 2023 10:39:43 GMT
Are we speaking about the MS1 class (1941), small 70 tons boats (24 x 4.6 x 1.5 m) propelled by a 250 hp diesel to 10.5 knots and armed with a single 20 mm and a twin 8 mm MG. No these haven't been built yet - its this Ancient boat which originally looked this when it was a proper landing craft. As late as 1906 they were used in an Army exercise landing upon the island of Samsø Using them in the 1940 configuration would be a little difficult but that was what the Navy was in possession of.
A thanks for the clarification. |
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Post by stevep on Mar 17, 2023 12:41:49 GMT
Just to clarify please does grenades include all types of shell? Only in English the term means a small explosive device that can be propelled by hand or from a rifle. Possibly in Danish and other use it has a more general term but to remove any doubt please. Basically can the Danes build the heavy shells for the artillery?
Steve
Steve Well I use it also for Artillery shells but I'd change the wording. As I understand yes we did build the shells ourselves. Seems I've been using rounds throughout the narrative for Artillery shells and grenades for Hand- and Riflegrenades. My bad. But then we have the 1864 Artillery which used a mix of solid balls, shells and canister - have termed that rounds to cover all.
OK thanks for clarifying. That's good that Denmark can produce its own shells else that artillery would have a somewhat limited effective life. 
PS Think there's a small typo in the post following yours above with a best missing.
Sounds like the Colonel is very eager. Hopefully it works out for him and his men.
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