575
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There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Jul 24, 2024 7:24:13 GMT
WI the Allies had decided in August 1939 to give in, reluctantly and with a hold nose, just one more time, and give Danzig to Germany? Sure, I expect that the war will still happen - but when? And how might this change everything which happened afterwards? To mention one thing, the Germans would have more ammo and so on available. Hitler wanted more than Danzig - a corridor within the corridor at least which I think would be a no-no to the Poles except if the West abandon them.
If war is awerted there might not be a Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact (depending on date of August) so that will make Hitler still a problem to everyone. Thing is Nazi-Germany would have a problem lacking oil come winther if M-R isn't entered or something like it. Nazi economy was going bad and Hitler knew he needed to do "something".
Such a delay would make the French able to possibly transit to Dewoitine D520 fighter and the British get the Spitfire in numbers both making it somewhat more difficult to crack. Also Poland and a number of other recipients in Eastern Europe would get their arms deals with the West through such as Poland getting its - mayby not all 150 Morane-Saulnier's.
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Post by Max Sinister on Jul 24, 2024 19:17:18 GMT
WI the Allies had decided in August 1939 to give in, reluctantly and with a hold nose, just one more time, and give Danzig to Germany? Sure, I expect that the war will still happen - but when? And how might this change everything which happened afterwards? To mention one thing, the Germans would have more ammo and so on available. Hitler wanted more than Danzig - a corridor within the corridor at least which I think would be a no-no to the Poles except if the West abandon them.
If war is awerted there might not be a Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact (depending on date of August) so that will make Hitler still a problem to everyone. Thing is Nazi-Germany would have a problem lacking oil come winther if M-R isn't entered or something like it. Nazi economy was going bad and Hitler knew he needed to do "something".
Such a delay would make the French able to possibly transit to Dewoitine D520 fighter and the British get the Spitfire in numbers both making it somewhat more difficult to crack. Also Poland and a number of other recipients in Eastern Europe would get their arms deals with the West through such as Poland getting its - mayby not all 150 Morane-Saulnier's.
What the "führer" said was that he'd let the Poles keep Gdynia in any case, and there should be a plebiscite about the Corridor. The side which lost it should get special traffic rights. The Poles were willing to give in re: easier traffic for the Germans, but no more.
M-R might be delayed, but not dead. Unless you know a good reason for this.
Would a winter war in Poland be feasible?
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575
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There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Jul 25, 2024 7:40:12 GMT
Hitler wanted more than Danzig - a corridor within the corridor at least which I think would be a no-no to the Poles except if the West abandon them.
If war is awerted there might not be a Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact (depending on date of August) so that will make Hitler still a problem to everyone. Thing is Nazi-Germany would have a problem lacking oil come winther if M-R isn't entered or something like it. Nazi economy was going bad and Hitler knew he needed to do "something".
Such a delay would make the French able to possibly transit to Dewoitine D520 fighter and the British get the Spitfire in numbers both making it somewhat more difficult to crack. Also Poland and a number of other recipients in Eastern Europe would get their arms deals with the West through such as Poland getting its - mayby not all 150 Morane-Saulnier's.
What the "führer" said was that he'd let the Poles keep Gdynia in any case, and there should be a plebiscite about the Corridor. The side which lost it should get special traffic rights. The Poles were willing to give in re: easier traffic for the Germans, but no more.
M-R might be delayed, but not dead. Unless you know a good reason for this.
Would a winter war in Poland be feasible?
And the Poles complained about the difficulties of such an arrangement. What peoples want - say - and do are three different things.
The Germans wanted M-R because of their economic and supply situation so yes it would come at some point if not things develop differently.
Why not? The Crusades in the Baltics were regularly done during winter so that the ground would be frozen and traversable - also would leave the Rasputiza behind the Motorized units. The Polish Winter may be harsh and as in the West 1939 Winter it may be a drain on German resources mainly so for heathing of German housing - the Germans wouldn't like those freezing but also because airpower would be limited.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jul 25, 2024 16:45:12 GMT
WI: Stalin dies in 1927.
Trotsky is still in the USSR, mind you.
Who succeeds Stalin? What's the impact on the Great Famine and ww2?
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Post by Max Sinister on Jul 27, 2024 20:24:54 GMT
WI: Stalin dies in 1927. Trotsky is still in the USSR, mind you. Who succeeds Stalin? What's the impact on the Great Famine and ww2? Trotsky was the smartest guy, but also arrogant and hated for it. Not sure who'd succeed. Maybe there's a time of confusion. Afterwards, if they mend up their relation, Trotsky might ally with Sinoviev and Kamenev - the "left opposition" united. It'd be a good thing if they avoided the Holodomor. Of course, Trotsky would plan to spread revolution. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 27, 2024 20:27:11 GMT
WI: Stalin dies in 1927. Trotsky is still in the USSR, mind you. Who succeeds Stalin? What's the impact on the Great Famine and ww2? Trotsky was the smartest guy, but also arrogant and hated for it. Not sure who'd succeed. Maybe there's a time of confusion. Afterwards, if they mend up their relation, Trotsky might ally with Sinoviev and Kamenev - the "left opposition" united. It'd be a good thing if they avoided the Holodomor. Of course, Trotsky would plan to spread revolution. Where is Beria. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 28, 2024 9:15:09 GMT
Trotsky was the smartest guy, but also arrogant and hated for it. Not sure who'd succeed. Maybe there's a time of confusion. Afterwards, if they mend up their relation, Trotsky might ally with Sinoviev and Kamenev - the "left opposition" united. It'd be a good thing if they avoided the Holodomor. Of course, Trotsky would plan to spread revolution. Where is Beria.
Hopefully getting a lead retirement payment but considering we're talking about the USSR that could be being too optimistic.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jul 28, 2024 12:12:12 GMT
WI: Wilhelm II is a bona fide pacifist.
What else could he do to maintain peace in Europe other than not building the HSF?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 28, 2024 22:38:01 GMT
WI: Wilhelm II is a bona fide pacifist. What else could he do to maintain peace in Europe other than not building the HSF?
If he was a pacifist he would be likely to be deposed one way or another. Or sidelined as pretty much the entire parliament as well as the military and aristocracy wouldn't stomach that.
If, which as you might mean, he was intelligent enough to realise that relying on wars alone to achieve your aims is risky and very expensive that's a different matter. Choosing to try and make allies and defuse tension rather than continually seeking to raise it. As well as avoiding the HSF at anything like the size - basically keeping it to what would be useful for a Germany not trying to threaten Britain also avoid too aggressive a policy, both militarily and diplomatic. No march through Belgium although offering it support if it was attacked. If he realises early enough to keep the reassurance treaty with Russia which keeps France isolated. That would avoid the paranoia trap Germany put itself in by having created the base for a Franco-Russian alliance they then steadily ramped up the steps to 'ensure' a military victory over the alliance. Which then led to ensuring Britain was pushed into a stance of severe concern about German actions and intentions.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jul 29, 2024 12:34:25 GMT
WI: no Holodomor
(Hint: Stalin is either a different person or isn't in power)
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jul 30, 2024 15:22:43 GMT
AHC/WI: A more assertive Western reaction to Hitler's actions between 1933-39.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 30, 2024 21:34:22 GMT
AHC/WI: A more assertive Western reaction to Hitler's actions between 1933-39.
Depending on the circumstances in the short term its good as you probably see Hitler defeated by a military coup when the nation is faced with military action by say France over the re-militarization of the Rhineland.
In the longer term, since many people, not just those inside Germany thought that the terms of the Versailles Treaty were harsh your likely to see pressure for at least some of the territorial restrictions to be modified/removed and you could see this being projected by revanchist elements that both face less external opposition and aren't as clearly deranged as the Nazis were.
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Post by Max Sinister on Jul 31, 2024 22:41:12 GMT
AHC/WI: A more assertive Western reaction to Hitler's actions between 1933-39. When Germany was a democratic republic (more so in the beginning, but that mattered), the Allies were harsh. When Germany had been taken over by the Nazis, the Allies were soft. Should have done the opposite.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Aug 3, 2024 11:10:35 GMT
WI: ww1 delayed until 1916 at least.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 3, 2024 22:38:06 GMT
WI: ww1 delayed until 1916 at least.
Probably bad for the CPs as it means Russia had more fully recovered from the 1905 disasters and completed upgrading railways in the western provinces. That means the Schlieffen Plan idea would have been pretty much clearly impossible so they would have had to try something else. Unless it prompted a change to a more defensive and less aggressive military and diplomatic policy.
Mind you this does assume no massive changes elsewhere. For instance what happens with the UK and events in Ireland? Is the paradox of Irish Home Rule and the opposition to it resolved in some way without it devolving into a nasty civil war? Or if Russia has another bout of massive instability. Or what happens with the Ottoman empire in this period. Does the US still have its 1916 naval programme - or something very similar - which would prompt response from both Britain and Japan in TTL.
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