stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 10, 2023 13:49:32 GMT
Heard of Milton Keynes? Yes, an odd city. In many TLs with a PoD during or befre WW2 it wouldn't exist. Or at the very least look very different. Or does anyone disagree?
Possibly, possibly not. Keynesian ideas of economics were gradually making progress in displacing the old failed lassiz faire ideas and he was a talented economist. Milton is a famous figure in British literature and something could be named after him assuming that a period of systematic reform of British society is at least attempted. Seeking to move people out of old slum areas is likely to be considered at some stages, even without the devastation of much of London and other big cities in the war and a new town's movement could still occur. The idea has some history, see new town movement and the Garden City movement which was a forerunner of it founded Letchworth Garden City in 1903. |
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mspence
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Post by mspence on Jun 10, 2023 20:20:43 GMT
Harry Times Two: Second term for Harry Truman?
IMO he might have been able to pull it off if the Republicans had nominated someone besides Eisenhower (probably Robert Taft). So how does he handle the end of the Korean War, civil rights, etc?
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mspence
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Post by mspence on Jun 11, 2023 4:04:31 GMT
WI: FDR nationalizes the banks
Not sure how he could have done this without Constitutional issues but WI he'd done this instead of declaring a bank holiday during the Great Depression?
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Post by Max Sinister on Jun 12, 2023 5:17:17 GMT
Heard of Milton Keynes? Yes, an odd city. In many TLs with a PoD during or befre WW2 it wouldn't exist. Or at the very least look very different. Or does anyone disagree?
Possibly, possibly not. Keynesian ideas of economics were gradually making progress in displacing the old failed lassiz faire ideas and he was a talented economist. Milton is a famous figure in British literature and something could be named after him assuming that a period of systematic reform of British society is at least attempted. Seeking to move people out of old slum areas is likely to be considered at some stages, even without the devastation of much of London and other big cities in the war and a new town's movement could still occur. The idea has some history, see new town movement and the Garden City movement which was a forerunner of it founded Letchworth Garden City in 1903. It's a popular explanation that the city was named by these two famous economists, but alas, it's not true - a village called Milton Keynes existed earlier. (Also, they have about diametrically opposed opinions how the economy works.)
You're right about the New Town movement, and it might happen in many ATLs. I don't know enough about British locations to decide whether a different place would have been just as good or better, and if not, how it might happen anyway. MK is along the road London-Birmingham, it does make sense to put it there.
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Post by Max Sinister on Jun 12, 2023 5:22:43 GMT
Something different: You know general Jacques-Philippe Leclerc de Hauteclocque, one of the most important men of the French resistance?
He certainly had an interesting story to tell: Escaped in spring 1940 from besieged Lille, fooled a German colonel, survived a bombing (but was wounded), escaped (while still wounded) from the Germans a second time, then joined de Gaulle in his exile, helped liberate black Africa from Vichy France...
On the one hand, such a badass deserves more mention in history books (and AH). OTOH, the probability for pulling this off a second time in an ATL seems low, esp. if the Germans do better (which is the case in "How many Sixes..."). On the third hand - someone with the potential to be that awesome in OTL might do it in ATLs too?
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Post by Max Sinister on Jun 12, 2023 5:52:35 GMT
He stepped back on September 6th in 1940. Not sure about the exact date - WP only says "He was allowed to leave the country with a special train loaded with fortunes, an assassination attempt was made by the Iron Guard, who fired on the train." Bumping that to clarify something: If I say "fortunes", that means "almost the whole treasure of the state". Antonescu was pretty naive to allow him that... seriously, that Carol guy must've inspired Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos...
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 12, 2023 17:20:18 GMT
Possibly, possibly not. Keynesian ideas of economics were gradually making progress in displacing the old failed lassiz faire ideas and he was a talented economist. Milton is a famous figure in British literature and something could be named after him assuming that a period of systematic reform of British society is at least attempted. Seeking to move people out of old slum areas is likely to be considered at some stages, even without the devastation of much of London and other big cities in the war and a new town's movement could still occur. The idea has some history, see new town movement and the Garden City movement which was a forerunner of it founded Letchworth Garden City in 1903. It's a popular explanation that the city was named by these two famous economists, but alas, it's not true - a village called Milton Keynes existed earlier. (Also, they have about diametrically opposed opinions how the economy works.)
You're right about the New Town movement, and it might happen in many ATLs. I don't know enough about British locations to decide whether a different place would have been just as good or better, and if not, how it might happen anyway. MK is along the road London-Birmingham, it does make sense to put it there.
Very interesting thanks.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 12, 2023 19:38:06 GMT
Implausible Scenario: DPRK Liberalizes After Kim Il-Sung Dies’.
Even then, it’d be little more than Chinese-style market reforms with a side-order of more “wiggle room” on free expression — all while keeping the Kim Dynasty firmly in power. 🙄
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miletus12
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To get yourself lost, just follow the signs.
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Post by miletus12 on Jun 12, 2023 21:33:35 GMT
Heard of Milton Keynes? Yes, an odd city. In many TLs with a PoD during or befre WW2 it wouldn't exist. Or at the very least look very different. Or does anyone disagree? The only significance besides a botched urban planning experiment and some interesting archeology is Alan Turing and some talented women cryptologists. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 12, 2023 23:14:36 GMT
‘Grover Cleveland Dies In His Secret Surgery’. See here for proper context, as the state of surgery in 1893 probably means things could’ve gone much worse for such a critical operation. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 17, 2023 15:44:56 GMT
‘AHC: USSR Collapses In 1980s Instead’.
Having nuclear war with the West doesn’t count, by the way.
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Jun 18, 2023 2:38:19 GMT
‘AHC: USSR Collapses In 1980s Instead’. Having nuclear war with the West doesn’t count, by the way. Gorbachev is deposed by hardliners led by Anatoly Lukyanov? I'm trying to cover this in my current TL project. Although having an earlier nationalist awakening in the various republics of the Soviet Union, along with a Russian nationalist equivalent of Milosevic and Seselj combined emerging would also do the trick. Now, here's a tricky challenge: PC: A Cold War Between the Soviet Union and the Japanese Empire, No Allies as Third Faction This might require a more destabilized Europe that's vulnerable to Soviet machinations and a China that's even more of a train wreck. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 18, 2023 9:37:44 GMT
‘AHC: USSR Collapses In 1980s Instead’. Having nuclear war with the West doesn’t count, by the way. Gorbachev is deposed by hardliners led by Anatoly Lukyanov? I'm trying to cover this in my current TL project. Although having an earlier nationalist awakening in the various republics of the Soviet Union, along with a Russian nationalist equivalent of Milosevic and Seselj combined emerging would also do the trick. Now, here's a tricky challenge: PC: A Cold War Between the Soviet Union and the Japanese Empire, No Allies as Third Faction This might require a more destabilized Europe that's vulnerable to Soviet machinations and a China that's even more of a train wreck.
In the latter example a lot depends on why there's no 3rd party influencing things, in terms of Europe or the US as the obvious cases. Not to mention why the two are clashing when both have greater interests elsewhere, the Soviets in Europe and Japan in other parts of Asia and the Pacific.
Also are you talking about in OTL cold war period, i.e. post 1945 or say one in the 1930's or an alternative 40's say? If the former then one obvious question would be nukes as that would make a much smaller Japan very vulnerable. Plus if the Japanese empire is anything like OTL imperial Japan then its going to have considerable resources tied up in in holding down a deeply resentful empire, especially in China but also probably just about anywhere else they rule.
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Jun 18, 2023 20:12:57 GMT
In the latter example a lot depends on why there's no 3rd party influencing things, in terms of Europe or the US as the obvious cases. Not to mention why the two are clashing when both have greater interests elsewhere, the Soviets in Europe and Japan in other parts of Asia and the Pacific.
Also are you talking about in OTL cold war period, i.e. post 1945 or say one in the 1930's or an alternative 40's say? If the former then one obvious question would be nukes as that would make a much smaller Japan very vulnerable. Plus if the Japanese empire is anything like OTL imperial Japan then its going to have considerable resources tied up in in holding down a deeply resentful empire, especially in China but also probably just about anywhere else they rule. I was thinking of a 1920s PoD where events in China go horribly wrong. More along the lines of the KMT's Northern Expedition failing, combined with a slower Soviet advance towards Poland, or alternatively, the Soviets don't go for Poland and try to consolidate their control over Ukraine and Belarus. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 19, 2023 17:39:58 GMT
‘Harry Truman Assassinated At Blair House’. See here for context on how it went IOTL. Here, Truman was unharmed and largely unphased, but I think ATLs where the Secret Services agents weren’t so quick to act (and thus, ending in early deaths for Truman and his wife) could easily be imagined. |
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