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Post by Max Sinister on Jan 28, 2023 2:38:44 GMT
Kurt Schumacher was a Social Democratic politician in Weimar Germany and a World War I veteran.
He wasn't one to mince words, as he proved in this attack on the Nazis in 1932:
Quote: "Die ganze nationalsozialistische Agitation ist ein dauernder Appell an den inneren Schweinehund im Menschen." (The whole national-socialist Agitation is a continuous appeal to the inner swine in human beings.) and stated the movement had been uniquely successful in "ceaselessly mobilizing human stupidity".
However, his party's comrades never let him make a great career. In fact, this speech you can listen to there is the only speech he ever made in the Reichstag. The usual politicking, I guess. Meanwhile, I can imagine that they were horrified that one of them would dare to be so outspoken. After all, this might endanger their lives! - After the war, his speech was played up much by his party, as if every single one of them had been a man like him.
While other "comrades" were left alone by the Nazis, he spent the twelve years of the "Thousand Year Reich" in various concentration camps.
After the war, he re-founded the SPD and was their head until his death - which came quite soon, in 1952.
But WI there had been justice for him, and his comrades had allowed him to make a career, before he'd have to suffer in KZs, so he'd have been their head in 1932 (optimally, a few years earlier)? Might he even have had mobilized the "Reichsbanner" (democratic veterans) against SA and Rotfrontkämpferbund?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 28, 2023 10:37:51 GMT
Kurt Schumacher was a Social Democratic politician in Weimar Germany and a World War I veteran.
He wasn't one to mince words, as he proved in this attack on the Nazis in 1932:
Quote: "Die ganze nationalsozialistische Agitation ist ein dauernder Appell an den inneren Schweinehund im Menschen." (The whole national-socialist Agitation is a continuous appeal to the inner swine in human beings.) and stated the movement had been uniquely successful in "ceaselessly mobilizing human stupidity".
However, his party's comrades never let him make a great career. In fact, this speech you can listen to there is the only speech he ever made in the Reichstag. The usual politicking, I guess. Meanwhile, I can imagine that they were horrified that one of them would dare to be so outspoken. After all, this might endanger their lives! - After the war, his speech was played up much by his party, as if every single one of them had been a man like him.
While other "comrades" were left alone by the Nazis, he spent the twelve years of the "Thousand Year Reich" in various concentration camps.
After the war, he re-founded the SPD and was their head until his death - which came quite soon, in 1952.
But WI there had been justice for him, and his comrades had allowed him to make a career, before he'd have to suffer in KZs, so he'd have been their head in 1932 (optimally, a few years earlier)? Might he even have had mobilized the "Reichsbanner" (democratic veterans) against SA and Rotfrontkämpferbund?
Interesting idea and sounds like a brave and honest man. It would have needed a lot more people in the party and probably across the broader population to have his guts and you could have had the problem that most rational and responsible groups had in this period, being squeezed between the two extremes of fascism and communism. However success and a democratic Germany coming through the depression would have made the world a lot better than OTL in the 30's and 40's.
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575
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Post by 575 on Jan 28, 2023 10:57:59 GMT
Reaction to his speaking just as You'd expect.
Der innere Schweinehund - den indre svinehund; have at least become an often used expression when dealing with the doings and intentions of bad behaviour/utterings from peoples of an otherwise friendly/kind appearance.
Perhaps if the party had given him more speech that in itself might have awoken some to the harsh realities of probably upcoming Nazi-rule. As he entered the Reichstag 1930 there may have been just the time to arouse some feelings of not joining the Nazis. It would unfortunately be in the nick of time.
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Post by Max Sinister on Jan 28, 2023 21:47:50 GMT
Interesting idea and sounds like a brave and honest man. It would have needed a lot more people in the party and probably across the broader population to have his guts and you could have had the problem that most rational and responsible groups had in this period, being squeezed between the two extremes of fascism and communism. However success and a democratic Germany coming through the depression would have made the world a lot better than OTL in the 30's and 40's.
He was brave and honest indeed. The point is, he wasn't the only one - couldn't have been. As he pointed out, the share of WW1 veterans among Reichstag SPD folks was higher than among the Nazis in the Reichstag. And many of the latter had been officers, maybe the kind called REMF in the US. But among the Nazis, even guys who had been eleven yo when WW1 started had the gall to call themselves veterans ("Frontkämpfer"). According to Schumacher at least, and I believe him.
Sebastian Haffner wrote how many good Democrats felt left in the rain by their leaders, after the Nazis took over. Yeah, you don't defeat the Nazis by making speeches how you "fight" for democracy if making speeches is all you're willing to do. In a certain way, practically everyone at that time in Germany bears some responsibility for the Nazis coming to power - but the average politician somewhat more than the average voter.
Yeah, Kurt Schumacher deserves to be better known indeed.
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Post by raharris1973 on Jan 29, 2023 13:10:10 GMT
Was he important in the rallying of West Berliners' moral strength during the '48 blockade?
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Post by Max Sinister on Feb 1, 2023 23:46:02 GMT
Was he important in the rallying of West Berliners' moral strength during the '48 blockade? Mayor Ernst Reuter was more famous for that, but Schumacher hated the Commies as well.
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Post by Max Sinister on Feb 24, 2023 4:15:24 GMT
Oh, since I didn't mention it: He was one of the few prisoners who actually dared to protest against the Nazis, once starting a hunger strike.
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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 8, 2023 15:48:06 GMT
Another little thing: You've ever heard about the "Eiserne Front" (Iron Front), the alliance of his SPD, the free unions, and the Reichsbanner, which was funded in 1931? The alliance with the "Three arrows" logo popular with many leftists on the interweb? Turns out he was a co-founder. But for some reason, the terms "Kurt Schumacher" and "Eiserne Front" are rarely fund together on the web. I wonder for the reason. Maybe because he saw Communists as "fascists painted red", while many modern leftists are more chummy with Commies?
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Post by Max Sinister on Jun 7, 2023 4:49:02 GMT
*bump*
The more I think about this, the less I like his "comrades". As in, the SPD's old leadership. Guys like Otto Wels, Hilferding, and others ran away (sometimes even before the Reichstag was burning) or stayed in Germany and were left alone if they signed that they wouldn't do anything political anymore.
Which means: They wouldn't do anything if one of their men would be sent to a concentration camp.
Yeah, there we can see how low they had sunk. Isn't signing that you won't lift a finger even if your former supposed friends will be sent to a KZ essentially - treason? If it isn't I don't know what is.
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575
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There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Jun 11, 2023 6:51:47 GMT
*bump* The more I think about this, the less I like his "comrades". As in, the SPD's old leadership. Guys like Otto Wels, Hilferding, and others ran away (sometimes even before the Reichstag was burning) or stayed in Germany and were left alone if they signed that they wouldn't do anything political anymore. Which means: They wouldn't do anything if one of their men would be sent to a concentration camp. Yeah, there we can see how low they had sunk. Isn't signing that you won't lift a finger even if your former supposed friends will be sent to a KZ essentially - treason? If it isn't I don't know what is. Why so surprised - they entered Burgfrieden on outbreak of WWI?
In Denmark they decided not to fight the German occupation - interned the Communist's when the Germans demanded - advocated non-resistance even threatening Prison - aaand then headed the post-war Government with Allied backing! They are survivors - not adherents to principle and ready to determined to stay in power.
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Post by Max Sinister on Jun 12, 2023 6:47:25 GMT
*bump* The more I think about this, the less I like his "comrades". As in, the SPD's old leadership. Guys like Otto Wels, Hilferding, and others ran away (sometimes even before the Reichstag was burning) or stayed in Germany and were left alone if they signed that they wouldn't do anything political anymore. Which means: They wouldn't do anything if one of their men would be sent to a concentration camp. Yeah, there we can see how low they had sunk. Isn't signing that you won't lift a finger even if your former supposed friends will be sent to a KZ essentially - treason? If it isn't I don't know what is. Why so surprised - they entered Burgfrieden on outbreak of WWI?
In Denmark they decided not to fight the German occupation - interned the Communist's when the Germans demanded - advocated non-resistance even threatening Prison - aaand then headed the post-war Government with Allied backing! They are survivors - not adherents to principle and ready to determined to stay in power.
Frankly, that's not a well-considered post.
1. The kaiser's Germany had many flaws, but they were far from being the Nazi regime.
2. Different things. To fail as badly as their German counterpart, the Danish SocDems would've had to distance themselves from their own resistance members at the demand of the Nazis.
3. Making grand speeches about "fighting for democracy" until their followers expect doing just that and then becoming afraid in the moment things get serious is a big fail. Unfortunately, almost everyone in the SPD leadership not named Schumacher did that. FAIL. And they were the biggest democratic party. If they aren't doing anything, why should anyone else dare?
Anti-nazi author Erich Kästner stated correctly that the Nazi snowball should have been crushed in 1928 while there was time and they were still small. 1932 it was too late.
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