melanie
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Post by melanie on Sept 28, 2022 6:57:28 GMT
The Treaty of Versaiies mandated allied occupied Rhineland is teleported from September 17, 1924 to September 17, 1939. For more information, see the coloured areas on the map below:  |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 28, 2022 21:02:16 GMT
Well you have a hell of a lot of confused people, from both 1924 and 1939. Its pretty bad for Germany as their lost not only the Rhineland but also a fair number of areas on the east bank including the Ruhr valley and all the forces and industrial capacity that was in it. Even if they were able to win it back, which would be awkward with their forces fighting in Poland and the regions would be somewhat surprised by the nature of Nazi Germany and distinctly outdated with also no formal military capacity.
Far more likely the 39 allies, even with their distinctly arthritic command system are going to link up with their 24 versions before the Germans can launch much in the way of counter attacks and Germany is likely to be defeated, possibly with Hitler quickly overthrown by a coup. I also wonder what various groups would think of the divine intervention that crippled Nazi Germany.
Steve
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Post by shadow007 on Oct 16, 2022 5:01:54 GMT
Well you have a hell of a lot of confused people, from both 1924 and 1939. Its pretty bad for Germany as their lost not only the Rhineland but also a fair number of areas on the east bank including the Ruhr valley and all the forces and industrial capacity that was in it. Even if they were able to win it back, which would be awkward with their forces fighting in Poland and the regions would be somewhat surprised by the nature of Nazi Germany and distinctly outdated with also no formal military capacity.
Far more likely the 39 allies, even with their distinctly arthritic command system are going to link up with their 24 versions before the Germans can launch much in the way of counter attacks and Germany is likely to be defeated, possibly with Hitler quickly overthrown by a coup. I also wonder what various groups would think of the divine intervention that crippled Nazi Germany.
Steve
Well Poland, Finland, Romania and the Baltic states would be grateful. Stalin decides Japan is easy pickings and continues to curbstomp them. Allies and US send lots of aid to the KMT and oil embargo Japan due to fear of Mao taking over China. Pearl Harbor occurs earlier which causes the Allies to defeat Japan much earlier. Cold War occurs much earlier but the Reds are much weaker while NATO is overbloated The Rapid Industrialization of China under the KMT means Asians face much less predejuce from White people |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 17, 2022 13:09:11 GMT
Well you have a hell of a lot of confused people, from both 1924 and 1939. Its pretty bad for Germany as their lost not only the Rhineland but also a fair number of areas on the east bank including the Ruhr valley and all the forces and industrial capacity that was in it. Even if they were able to win it back, which would be awkward with their forces fighting in Poland and the regions would be somewhat surprised by the nature of Nazi Germany and distinctly outdated with also no formal military capacity.
Far more likely the 39 allies, even with their distinctly arthritic command system are going to link up with their 24 versions before the Germans can launch much in the way of counter attacks and Germany is likely to be defeated, possibly with Hitler quickly overthrown by a coup. I also wonder what various groups would think of the divine intervention that crippled Nazi Germany.
Steve
Well Poland, Finland, Romania and the Baltic states would be grateful. Stalin decides Japan is easy pickings and continues to curbstomp them. Allies and US send lots of aid to the KMT and oil embargo Japan due to fear of Mao taking over China. Pearl Harbor occurs earlier which causes the Allies to defeat Japan much earlier. Cold War occurs much earlier but the Reds are much weaker while NATO is overbloated The Rapid Industrialization of China under the KMT means Asians face much less predejuce from White people
I don't think Pearl Harbour would be practical in 1939 given the markedly reduced Japanese forces and also it would require the USN Pacific fleet having been moved to there while if a) Germany has been defeated early - Roosevelt may see no need for such a move b) If the Soviets are going to full scale war with Japan its not going to be attacking the western powers and I doubt that they would want to see the Soviets expand their power so much.
If the Soviets are advancing as you suggest and a cold war situation is developing then the CCP is likely to get a lot of support from the Soviets. Plus given how corrupt, autocratic and crippled by infighting and Chiang's desire for total control I doubt a KMT that came to rule all of China would be that much of an economic giant any time soon.
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575
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There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Oct 19, 2022 9:46:14 GMT
Germany:
If the southern area around Offenburg the 78. Infantry Division of 7. Army is partially lost leaving said Army with the 212., 215. Infantry and remnants of 78. Infantry.
The strong 1. Army in Saar area is lost along the 5. Army in the area of Aachen down to north of Hellenthal.
Luftwaffe - the majority of units allocated to Armygroup C is lost. The other units Luftflotte 2 and 3 number some 517 Bombers, 33 Biplane figters, 387 Messerschmitt Bf-109D and 179 Bf-109E. 7. Fallschirmjäger Division is at Wahlstatt, Silesia with lots of Transports. The Küstenflieger/Coastal Force is in Schleswig-Holstein and North Sea Area.
France: Still some 11 Infantry Divisions is in Saar and other border areas from Luxembourg to the bend at Karlsruhe. The loss may impact the French badly though the French wanted to continue the Saaroffensive past 16. September - troops being finally withdrawn 17. October.
The French Army of the Rhine in the Rhineland had some 100,000/200,000? troops (high number Wiki - low number International Encyclopedia of WWI).
The Belgians fielded elements of 5 Divisions (20,000?) and will be dragged into the fight.
The British Army of the Rhine consisting of two Brigades 1. of 7 Infantry Battalions, 2. of 10 Infantry Battalions though some of these may have been withdrawn at the time of ISOT.
BEF is only arriving in Northern France with the 1. Corps become operational 3. October 1939 and 2. Corps 12. October.
With the brigdeheads across the Rhine there is little for the Germans to do but route any training unit west untill the Polish Campaign is ended.
A lot of German fuel and ammunition will be spend in Poland so little to do to withstand the Allies.
I don't see Stalin rushing into German occupied Poland - it will be a swell occasion to watch the Bourgeois Nations fighting it out and exhausting eash other only for him to wait and pick up the shreds. Staying out of Poland could even be attractive to him to bleed the Germans some more before the Western Allies comes at them. Even the possibility of remaining neutral to bolster the image of Communisimn being peaceful and exclusive to Russia! That could have some political impact in Europe. However he may decide not to enter the Cease-fire 15. September with Japan but decide to squeeze everything possible out of the situation which of course open the field of what the USA and Western Allies may do to counter the Red Menace.
A possible however could be Mussolini moving into Austria to protect it from being destroyed by war! "Thanks for last time Hynkie!"
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melanie
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Post by melanie on Oct 19, 2022 19:38:13 GMT
Benny *will* move into Ostmark.
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