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Post by American hist on Sept 5, 2022 17:53:42 GMT
What would confederate cuisine look like in a alternate history were the southern United States breaks away into a confederate states of America? This alternative history question is a expansion and debate off of this pod on alternative history.com www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/cuisine-of-the-confederate-states-of-america.503721/www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/food-in-ah.50792/Would confederate cuisine look different than actual southern cuisine what would the variations be? Northern cuisine honestly isn’t very good but that’s just my preference. Everyone can debate cuisine however if You have a personal vendetta against the south you don’t have to be so obvious about it on a trivial question about cuisine. Alternative history‘s take in liberties by their very nature. In this alternative history doesn’t have to be a precise point of divergence other than the south winning her independence so you could argue certain facts of cuisine based off of reality and fiction As long as you trying to be fair |
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Sept 5, 2022 18:23:25 GMT
I would just hope that Classic Southern-Fried Catfish and Hush puppies would still be served.
Here is one of the very best Catfish recipes from Chef Alexander Smalls
Prep: 5 mins
Cook: 12 mins
Total: 17 mins
Servings: 6 servings
Catfish is a popular dish of the South and for good reason. Although it can be prepared in a variety of ways, including grilled, frying it in a cornmeal coating is the most traditional. And delicious too. Many recipes for fried catfish exist, but there are very few that can beat a few crispy, hot catfish fillets in a cornmeal crust.
Hush puppies, small onion-flavored cornmeal dumplings, are classic accompaniments for Southern-fried catfish. You can cook them simultaneously for a quick meal, but you are going to need a big frying pan. For a traditional fish fry, serve your fillets and dumplings along with tartar sauce, and coleslaw.
Ingredients
6 catfish fillets, 6 ounces each
Gather the ingredients.
Ingredients for Southern-fried catfish recipe gathered
Preheat the oven to 200 F. Line a rimmed baking sheet with foil and place a rack in the pan.
Foil-lined baking sheet and rack
Arrange the catfish in a wide, shallow bowl or pie plate. Pour the buttermilk over the fish.
Catfish fillets and buttermilk in bowl
Combine the cornmeal, flour, salt, paprika, cayenne, and garlic powder on a pie plate.
Take the fish out of the buttermilk and dredge the fish fillets in the flour mixture to coat thoroughly. Shake off excess flour mixture.
Coat fish in the flour mixture
Heat up 1 inch of oil in a deep, heavy skillet or heavy Dutch oven over high heat.
Oil in a pan The oil must be 350 F. Use a candy thermometer or drop a pinch of the flour mixture into the oil—if it bubbles and floats, the oil is ready. Just be mindful of maintaining the oil temperature while cooking the fish. Don't overcrowd the pan, as doing so will lower the oil temperature.
Flour in a skillet with oil Carefully place 2 to 3 fillets in the pan. Catfish fillets frying in skillet
Cook for about 5 to 6 minutes, or until golden brown. If the oil isn't deep enough to cover the fish, turn the fillets carefully after about 3 minutes.
Catfish fillets frying in skillet Remove the fish to the rack in the baking pan and place in the oven while you cook another batch. Repeat until all of the fish fillets are cooked. Serve hot with your favorite sides.
Classic Southern-fried catfish on a cooling rack
Getting rid of the muddy taste in catfish is just a matter of time. You have two choices:
Dissolve half a teaspoon of baking soda per quart of water. Submerge your fillets in the mixture and allow them to soak for 30 to 45 minutes in the fridge. Drain well, rinse, and pat dry with paper towels before proceeding with the recipe.
Cover the catfish fillets in buttermilk, place in the fridge, covered, for one hour. Drain, rinse, and pat dry with paper towels before soaking it again in the clean and unused buttermilk our recipe calls for.
Any vegetable oil will do a great job, but peanut oil is recommended because it has a high smoking point and gives the fish a tasty, nutty flavor. The most important thing when frying fish is to keep the temperature steady to guarantee a crispy crust. Oil at lower temperatures than 350 F will yield soggy and wet fillets.
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Post by simon darkshade on Sept 6, 2022 11:31:35 GMT
I think it would be largely similar in the Deep South and High South until the 1960s or so. It really depends on the circumstances of Confederate survival, how the world develops and it’s interaction with CSA neighbours (hard or soft borders). After that, it is difficult to plot, as the major drivers for US culinary change (interstate highways and car culture, growth of major fast food chains and the death of smaller competitors, the ‘globalisation of tastes’, food tech and preservation tech) may apply differently, leading to distinct divergence.
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Post by American hist on Oct 5, 2022 4:41:27 GMT
In my opinion, Confederate cuisine would be southern food with a mix of food from the Caribbean and Latin American influence combined with conventional southern cooking. The southern United States today has the highest obesity rate so I could also imagine the south would pride themselves in good cooking while the Northwood pride themselves in bad cooking 🍳 Because they are not a bunch of Fattys. So the reason why pizza and other cuisine are more popular in the north is that to be honest, The northeast isn’t known for its cooking. In fact, during colonial times New England food was deliberately supposed to taste bad out of Christian asceticism and to greatly discourage gluttony. The inhabitants also didn’t have a warm climate for spices and the influence of African slaves like the southern colonies did. The middle colonies were an improvement in the cuisine compared to the New England colonies but still a downgrade comparing them to southern cooking. The Quakers Believe cuisines should be plain and simple yet to enjoy the simplicity just as one should enjoy the simplicity of life. I could largely imagine in the 21st-century northern cuisine would be healthier than the southern fried cuisine added into text mex food. Historian Edmond Morgan notes cooking was a refined art and experience in the south. New Englanders just dined. www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=1037756www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=1037968www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=1040408Last I don’t mean to be offensive I mean to be satiric and while I love good southern cooking I also worry about my weight |
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Post by simon darkshade on Oct 5, 2022 6:18:19 GMT
In my opinion, Confederate cuisine would be southern food with a mix of food from the Caribbean and Latin American influence. The southern United States today has the highest obesity rate so I could also imagine the south would pride themselves in good cooking while the Northwood pry themselves in bad cooking 🍳 Because they are not a bunch of Fattys. So the reason why pizza and other cuisine are more popular in the north is that to be honest, The northeast isn’t known for its cooking. In fact, during colonial times New England food was deliberately supposed to taste bad out of Christian and asceticism and to greatly discourage gluttony. The inhabitants also didn’t have a warm climate for spices and the influence of African slaves like the southern colonies did. The middle colonies were an improvement in the cuisine compared to the New England colonies but still a downgrade comparing them to southern cooking. The Quakers Believe cuisines should be plain and simple yet to enjoy the simplicity just as one should enjoy the simplicity of life. I could largely imagine in the 21st-century northern cuisine would be healthier than the southern fried cuisine added into text mex food. Historian Edmond Morgan notes cooking was a refined art and experience in the south. New Englanders just dined. www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=1037756www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=1037968www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=1040408Last I don’t mean to be offensive I mean to be satiric and while I love good southern cooking I also worry 1.) That is sufficiently different from both @ and the CSA’s brief trajectory in the 1860s to merit explanation. 2.) Obesity rates are higher in different ethnic groups and socio-economic groups, of which the South has more of both. I would argue that the obesity correlation is easier to make in socio-economic terms. 3.) Not quite. Those areas saw a greater rate of Italian migration in the 19th and 20th century, which had culinary consequences, including the rise to popularity of pizza from the late 1940s and the rise of pizza delivery in the 1970s due to more cities. 4.) A bit of a simplification. For the earliest Puritan groups/period in the 17th century, to some extent yes. After 1700, there is a notable shift in the quantity and quality of even NE Colonial American food and the spices used were typically imported, as in the Southern Colonies. 5.) See above, but also factor in the climatic effects on crops/staples and foods during this, the end of the Little Ice Age. 6.) Yes, and there were very few of them. 7.) Returning to 1 above, you haven’t showed that a combination with Mexican food will arise or how, so it is difficult to assess something without proof or argument. Northern Cuisine, made up of many parts and traditions, is not inherently more or less healthy. 8.) Morgan is one food historian among many and generalisations are frequently of limited use. You aren’t being offensive, but simply need to explain your thesis for Point #1. |
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Post by American hist on Oct 5, 2022 7:24:12 GMT
So here’s why I think there would be more Latino food and a confederate states of America. www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=1044022In your opinion should the New Orleans cuisine and southwestern cuisine should they have been combined in one fact book or should they have been separate? 1 Golden Circle expansionist efforts even if most of them and didn’t failure it could still influence the southern cusine. 2 it’s possible that there would be more Mexican immigrants in this alternative history at least mine. A lot of Mexicans would not care to live under Maximilian‘s rule. 3 A lot of the Mexican food we have is generally fried at least the Tex-Mex cusine. I could imagine that fried southern food combined with fried Mexican food would perhaps catch on quicker. The confederacy borders Mexico the north doesn’t. Southern California people and government wanted to belong under the confederacy but they found they couldn’t 4 I could see the confederate states of America investing in Mexico under a French imperial blessing. This investment benefit both countries and possibly Confederate soldiers would be stationed in Mexico proper aid French/CSA interest particularly mineral Wealth as the areas the CSA holds not as many gold or silver deposits are in the CSA. I also think it is a Confederates how the French that an exchange for their efforts a Confederates would receive northern Mexico. Northerners really cannot cook well they don’t cook their vegetables well in fact they’re kind of raw. My family had been to Canada for Thanksgiving onece and the food was really bland as they lacked spice’s. Keep in mind some really anti-slavery people are not gonna have sugar consumed by slaves British and French powers which helped lead to the USA‘s great demise. So for a while sugarbeet industries didn’t go well which in my opinion would lead to less deserts in the north. The best way to forget starving times of the past is to celebrate with fatty perfected sugary and tasty cuisine. I already said much an alternate history.com. People have less incentives to be pigs when the food isn’t that good! Alright, I'll come up with a more detailed thesis in the future. One last thing to add the Caribbean is much closer to the south and in the north and British and confederate interest could be one in the same commercially. Excuse me but I don’t think it would be very likely for the British to Allie themselves with the union .An alternative history.com a lot of people would argue that the British because they were so anti-slavery would help the north against the south. However confederate relationships to South America is a different discussion www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=1044006 |
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Oct 6, 2022 14:48:03 GMT
In my opinion, Confederate cuisine would be southern food with a mix of food from the Caribbean and Latin American influence combined with conventional southern cooking. The southern United States today has the highest obesity rate so I could also imagine the south would pride themselves in good cooking while the Northwood pride themselves in bad cooking 🍳 Because they are not a bunch of Fattys. So the reason why pizza and other cuisine are more popular in the north is that to be honest, The northeast isn’t known for its cooking. In fact, during colonial times New England food was deliberately supposed to taste bad out of Christian asceticism and to greatly discourage gluttony. The inhabitants also didn’t have a warm climate for spices and the influence of African slaves like the southern colonies did. The middle colonies were an improvement in the cuisine compared to the New England colonies but still a downgrade comparing them to southern cooking. The Quakers Believe cuisines should be plain and simple yet to enjoy the simplicity just as one should enjoy the simplicity of life. I could largely imagine in the 21st-century northern cuisine would be healthier than the southern fried cuisine added into text mex food. Historian Edmond Morgan notes cooking was a refined art and experience in the south. New Englanders just dined. www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=1037756www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=1037968www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=1040408Last I don’t mean to be offensive I mean to be satiric and while I love good southern cooking I also worry about my weight American hist, IMO, as a born and bread New Englander who has lived with "Yankee" cooking all my life you are much too kind. We don't Dine we feed, at best.  |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Oct 6, 2022 15:59:45 GMT
I would probably not be different from OTL. Expect to see corn, rice, bananas, shellfish, jambalaya, seafood, and steak to be served.
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Post by simon darkshade on Oct 7, 2022 4:03:08 GMT
1. So here’s why I think there would be more Latino food and a confederate states of America. www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=10440221a. In your opinion should the New Orleans cuisine and southwestern cuisine should they have been combined in one fact book or should they have been separate? 2 Golden Circle expansionist efforts even if most of them and didn’t failure it could still influence the southern cusine. 3 it’s possible that there would be more Mexican immigrants in this alternative history at least mine. A lot of Mexicans would not care to live under Maximilian‘s rule. 4 A lot of the Mexican food we have is generally fried at least the Tex-Mex cusine. I could imagine that fried southern food combined with fried Mexican food would perhaps catch on quicker. The confederacy borders Mexico the north doesn’t. Southern California people and government wanted to belong under the confederacy but they found they couldn’t 5 I could see the confederate states of America investing in Mexico under a French imperial blessing. This investment benefit both countries and possibly Confederate soldiers would be stationed in Mexico proper aid French/CSA interest particularly mineral Wealth as the areas the CSA holds not as many gold or silver deposits are in the CSA. I also think it is a Confederates how the French that an exchange for their efforts a Confederates would receive northern Mexico. 6 Northerners really cannot cook well they don’t cook their vegetables well in fact they’re kind of raw. 7 My family had been to Canada for Thanksgiving onece and the food was really bland as they lacked spice’s. 8 Keep in mind some really anti-slavery people are not gonna have sugar consumed by slaves British and French powers which helped lead to the USA‘s great demise. So for a while sugarbeet industries didn’t go well which in my opinion would lead to less deserts in the north. The best way to forget starting times of the past used to celebrate with cuisine. I already said much an alternate history.com. People have less incentives to be pigs when the food isn’t that good? Alright, I'll come up with a more detailed thesis in the future. One last thing to add the Caribbean is much closer to the south and in the north and British and confederate interest could be one in the same commercially. Excuse me but I don’t think it would be very likely for the British to our themselves with the union against that stupid generally. An altar of history.com a lot of people would argue that the British because they were so anti-slavery would help the north against the south. However confederate relationships to South America is a different discussion www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=10440061.) Nation States is not a good reference, being an amateur game of wish fulfilment. 1a.) Cajun/Acadian cuisine and Southwestern cuisine are very different. 2.) The Golden Circle idea was an idiotic non-starter, so isn't a realistic basis for putative cultural development. Apart from the North/USA, there were a few other strong powers around whose interests were not served by a slave empire. 3.) There needs to be actual detail, not just an assertion - detail and reason. It isn't impossible, but a CSA isn't a great beacon for migrants of any sort. 4.) Lots of cuisines feature frying, but there are big differences between them nonetheless. This is a weak argument. 5.) France doesn't have a long term capacity to project power into Mexico, on account of the much bigger issue of Prussia right next door. Once a Franco-Prussian War occurs, the former exits from their delusions of a Mexican puppet state. The rest of the rambling thought is irrelevant after that point. 6.) "Northerners really cannot cook" is a false generalisation and the type of one you'd be up in arms about if it was reversed to the South. Don't go down that path. Furthermore, it isn't supported by reality in the 19th century, before, or after. The cooking of the Gilded Age was not poor in the urban North, but quite high standard. I've read a lot of 19th century American cookbooks and they can't be accused of undercooking vegetables; that is a modern phenomenon at best. 7.) With the greatest of respect, a personal anecdote based on a single trip to a place is not sufficient to form any sort of characterisation. Modern Canada doesn't lack spices in any way. 8.) Weak argument, verging on the nonsensical. They can just get sugar from the British West Indies, where slavery has been abolished for some time. Just as British cotton mill owners opposed to slavery had no problem with Southern cotton, economics trumps politics. As for Britain preferring the South to the Union, you really need to make a very good argument indeed for that proposition. |
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Oct 7, 2022 4:35:09 GMT
Wouldn't the cuisines of the CSA have more influence from West African cuisine, courtesy of the West African slaves that were shipped over to the New World?
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Post by simon darkshade on Oct 7, 2022 6:20:38 GMT
Not really, as the Atlantic slave trade had been halted for some time at this point. Did the Black cuisine of the CSA/South have African influence? Of course.
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bytor
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Post by bytor on Nov 21, 2022 0:18:40 GMT
1. So here’s why I think there would be more Latino food and a confederate states of America. www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=10440221a. In your opinion should the New Orleans cuisine and southwestern cuisine should they have been combined in one fact book or should they have been separate? 2 Golden Circle expansionist efforts even if most of them and didn’t failure it could still influence the southern cusine. 3 it’s possible that there would be more Mexican immigrants in this alternative history at least mine. A lot of Mexicans would not care to live under Maximilian‘s rule. 4 A lot of the Mexican food we have is generally fried at least the Tex-Mex cusine. I could imagine that fried southern food combined with fried Mexican food would perhaps catch on quicker. The confederacy borders Mexico the north doesn’t. Southern California people and government wanted to belong under the confederacy but they found they couldn’t 5 I could see the confederate states of America investing in Mexico under a French imperial blessing. This investment benefit both countries and possibly Confederate soldiers would be stationed in Mexico proper aid French/CSA interest particularly mineral Wealth as the areas the CSA holds not as many gold or silver deposits are in the CSA. I also think it is a Confederates how the French that an exchange for their efforts a Confederates would receive northern Mexico. 6 Northerners really cannot cook well they don’t cook their vegetables well in fact they’re kind of raw. 7 My family had been to Canada for Thanksgiving onece and the food was really bland as they lacked spice’s. 8 Keep in mind some really anti-slavery people are not gonna have sugar consumed by slaves British and French powers which helped lead to the USA‘s great demise. So for a while sugarbeet industries didn’t go well which in my opinion would lead to less deserts in the north. The best way to forget starting times of the past used to celebrate with cuisine. I already said much an alternate history.com. People have less incentives to be pigs when the food isn’t that good? Alright, I'll come up with a more detailed thesis in the future. One last thing to add the Caribbean is much closer to the south and in the north and British and confederate interest could be one in the same commercially. Excuse me but I don’t think it would be very likely for the British to our themselves with the union against that stupid generally. An altar of history.com a lot of people would argue that the British because they were so anti-slavery would help the north against the south. However confederate relationships to South America is a different discussion www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=10440061.) Nation States is not a good reference, being an amateur game of wish fulfilment. 1a.) Cajun/Acadian cuisine and Southwestern cuisine are very different. 2.) The Golden Circle idea was an idiotic non-starter, so isn't a realistic basis for putative cultural development. Apart from the North/USA, there were a few other strong powers around whose interests were not served by a slave empire. 3.) There needs to be actual detail, not just an assertion - detail and reason. It isn't impossible, but a CSA isn't a great beacon for migrants of any sort. 4.) Lots of cuisines feature frying, but there are big differences between them nonetheless. This is a weak argument. 5.) France doesn't have a long term capacity to project power into Mexico, on account of the much bigger issue of Prussia right next door. Once a Franco-Prussian War occurs, the former exits from their delusions of a Mexican puppet state. The rest of the rambling thought is irrelevant after that point. 6.) "Northerners really cannot cook" is a false generalisation and the type of one you'd be up in arms about if it was reversed to the South. Don't go down that path. Furthermore, it isn't supported by reality in the 19th century, before, or after. The cooking of the Gilded Age was not poor in the urban North, but quite high standard. I've read a lot of 19th century American cookbooks and they can't be accused of undercooking vegetables; that is a modern phenomenon at best. 7.) With the greatest of respect, a personal anecdote based on a single trip to a place is not sufficient to form any sort of characterisation. Modern Canada doesn't lack spices in any way. 8.) Weak argument, verging on the nonsensical. They can just get sugar from the British West Indies, where slavery has been abolished for some time. Just as British cotton mill owners opposed to slavery had no problem with Southern cotton, economics trumps politics. As for Britain preferring the South to the Union, you really need to make a very good argument indeed for that proposition. Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with Simon's analysis here. And as a Canadian I'm definitely going to take umbrage at the idea the Canadian cooking lacks spices. Especially when you realise that there isn't really any one singlular "Canadian style" of cooking. It's highly regional and affected by ones ethno-cultural heritage. Tex-Mex is a great example of how cuisine is changed by economic factors. In the Wikipedia article on Tex-Mex there are two lines that say: - In the 20th century, as goods from the United States became cheap and readily available, Tex-Mex took on such Americanized elements as Cheddar, jack, and pimento cheeses.
- In much of Texas, the cooking styles on both sides of the U.S.-Mexico border were the same until a period after the U.S. Civil War. With the railroads, American ingredients and cooking appliances became common on the U.S. side.
Pretty much everything that distinguishes Tex-Mex from Mexican cuisine can be traced to those economic links to the North initially opened up by the railroads. As per Simon's 2) and 3), there's not going to be a lot of immigration into the Confederate States so new ideas are going to be few and far between so knowledge of how to use different spices or flavour principals or styles of preparation are not going to be adopted into, and anything that came south on the ever expanding railroads of OTL after the 1860s would be comparatively rare and not be a part of Southern-style cooking in this hypothetical ATL. For example, wheat production was comparatively rare in the South and fine-ground wheat flour was relatively expensive until the late 19th century after the U.S. Civil War when wheat production really took off in places like Kansas and the Dakotas. Modern Texan grain production is a result of wheat farming spreading out of Kansas in the early to mid 20th century as people migrated around. So that means flour stays an expensive due to being mostly and import in the South at least until well into the boll weevil infestation is well under way and the local economic disruptions make more plantations think of growing wheat instead. This means that anything using flour is less common in this ATL than OTL, as it is used mostly for basic bread or expensive fancy baked goods that are uncommon treats. So fried chicken with battered skin (like KFC) remains uncommon, as do the OTL Appalachian standards of buttermilk biscuits and coconut cream cake. |
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Post by Max Sinister on Nov 23, 2022 18:09:26 GMT
Did anyone watch "CSA: The Confederate States of America"? The Latino who was enslaved and had to eat stuff like chitterlings?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 23, 2022 18:59:11 GMT
Did anyone watch "CSA: The Confederate States of America"? The Latino who was enslaved and had to eat stuff like chitterlings?# Wich you can watch here: C.S.A.: The Confederate States of AmericaDoes not look like something i would eat, these chitterlings.  |
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Post by American hist on Jan 22, 2023 17:50:07 GMT
simon darkshade, First of all, it wasn't just a one-time experience it was 4 months living in Nova Scotia second of all Canadian food is often a downgraded version of American food when it's not an exact copy due to there lack of spices and being more British. As for Puritan food, I won't deny in the 17th century their baking was fine and even superior to southern baking because for a while many southerns didn't have the necessary tools. However if a culture from the beginning strongly discourages gluttony in culinary achievements, is already going to be at a disadvantage. The Quakers, who had a monopoly of the culture and government in the middle colonies, discouraged glutney but the middle colonist had better food, than the New England colonies, who favored simple food,but found pleasure in the simplicity, such as bread and cheese. Some of the dishes from the 18th and 19th century are examples of really good dishes that have been nearly forgotten. New England food I’m looking for list of New England food. It’s either not that good or unique or I can get that in the south too. restaurantclicks.com/new-england-food/50 most popular dishes in new England New Englanders in the 18th and 19th centuries and even to this day still eat a lot of seafood in their diet I don’t know about a safe haven for Jewish people, but I would say it was a better place for them compared to the future south[/a] diets. It is true that the immigrants went to the north because of jobs but remember when the nativist party came about they were strongest in New England, and later, switched over to the 19th-century republican party. history of the natvistAlternate history could certainly change, but if the south is desperate for immigrants, then they are desperate to cajole to them. Someone can point out the wasp nativist such as the kkk however, those circumstances could be butterflied, or amalgamated with no worry, construction jewish people we’re going to the south and the Midwest, and a victorious war of independence. www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/2140401.pdfThe south is desperate need of cheap laborThe middle colonies maintained a tradition of diversity when they evolved into states. However, when you adapt to too many different variables of cuisines from other cultures you can easily neglect your own specific regional dish and rely on other nations' food. I am looking at the online list of food. There is a long list of southern food but not a very big list of northern regional dishes, even if I were combining them. . Well, it is true that the midwestern food is also different some of those unique styles or dishes from the Midwest are because I have a greater than that post-revolution period, particularly in the southern portion of, the Midwest, such as little Egypt.
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