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Post by justiniano on Sept 3, 2022 4:40:09 GMT
What aspects or characteristics of a country (that was conquered before the 18th century) should I research to determine how it would have industrialized had it not been conquered?
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Post by Max Sinister on Sept 7, 2022 22:22:58 GMT
Not sure what you mean, but let's take a look at China to see why they didn't even if they were rich enough.
Sue, they had enough reserves of coal, and iron as well. All you need? Maybe in Civilization games. The difference to Britain was: Britain's coal mines always were in danger of filling with water, so they needed pumps. For which they needed steam power. China had the opposite problem: Their coal mines were so dry they often caught fire!
That's the difference.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 8, 2022 14:16:52 GMT
Not sure what you mean, but let's take a look at China to see why they didn't even if they were rich enough. Sue, they had enough reserves of coal, and iron as well. All you need? Maybe in Civilization games. The difference to Britain was: Britain's coal mines always were in danger of filling with water, so they needed pumps. For which they needed steam power. China had the opposite problem: Their coal mines were so dry they often caught fire! That's the difference.
Interesting, as I never knew that, about Chinese minds. I do recall from Kennedy's Rise and Fall of the Great Powers that he puts the failure of a possible Chinese industrial revolution in I think it was the 10thC that the problem was that the merchants involved getting wealthy and hence influential was seen as a threat to the established elites in the government, clerics and military and hence were closed down.
I wonder if India might have been a better option? If it was slightly better protected on the NW frontier so invasions from that region were less damaging you might have seen assorted kingdoms and states squabbling for power and hence interested in finding new ways to expand their power to keep up with rivals. There was an important maritime region in the south which I think was responsible for the expansion of Hinduism to SE Asia and this might have developed further possibly with rivals developing in say Bengal and the east coast. This could have seen a similar situation developing as to Europe ~1500 onward. Although possibly Hinduism with its belief in kama and a rigid caste system would have been a serious issue as merchants have low status there and it would be more difficult for members of any caste to move into another one, restricting social minority.
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Post by justiniano on Sept 8, 2022 16:48:27 GMT
What I mean is, imperial Russia industrialized witht he czar and people he employed calling all the shots. the USSR industrialized very forcibly even when it meant starving many people to death. The scandinavian countries took their time due to workers already having most of their rights so they wouldn't have been forced to work all the extra hours in the factories other countries did. Japan was the model for other asian countries, so they tried to copy the way Japan industrialized. Germany industrialized somewhere in between the ways imperial Russia & Britain did.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 8, 2022 18:45:45 GMT
What I mean is, imperial Russia industrialized witht he czar and people he employed calling all the shots. the USSR industrialized very forcibly even when it meant starving many people to death. The scandinavian countries took their time due to workers already having most of their rights so they wouldn't have been forced to work all the extra hours in the factories other countries did. Japan was the model for other asian countries, so they tried to copy the way Japan industrialized. Germany industrialized somewhere in between the ways imperial Russia & Britain did.
Actually I think I would have to disagree with that last bit. More Britain was in the middle of the paths of Russia and Germany. We weren't as savage as Russia, especially under the communists but did a lot worse than Germany prior to 1933. That was the thing above all that started the curtailing of British power.
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Post by Max Sinister on Sept 15, 2022 1:00:51 GMT
Interesting, as I never knew that, about Chinese minds. I do recall from Kennedy's Rise and Fall of the Great Powers that he puts the failure of a possible Chinese industrial revolution in I think it was the 10thC that the problem was that the merchants involved getting wealthy and hence influential was seen as a threat to the established elites in the government, clerics and military and hence were closed down. Also, merchants don't exactly get much respect in Confucianism. Or Japan either.
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