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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jun 9, 2022 13:24:01 GMT
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 9, 2022 13:36:28 GMT
Stop it i do not think so, delay it, most likely. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 10, 2022 15:33:34 GMT
Question. Since Belgium is part of NATO and still houses SHAPE are there any other modern forces brought along?
The clash between 1914 and 2021 is going to be dramatic. Belgium has a lot of technology but also a lot of dependency on world trade that is now cut off. The invading Germans are going to find a vastly different Belgium than they knew which will cause some confusion and possibly a pause or two while units and their commanders have a WTF moment or five.
Its likely that Belgium would be overwhelmed quickly as its not prepared for the invasion and has no defences against an attack from Germany. However wherever Belgium and other up time forces are able to react the Germans are going to take a battering and some heavy losses. If the Belgium/uptime allied airforces are able to start operations that's also going to cause a lot of problems while fuel, munitions and bases last. However Belgium armoured or motorised forces are going to be a very nasty shock as well.
Possibly the French and then the British could respond a bit more quickly given the better lines of communications available, although the same could also apply to a German advance with better roads. One aspect here is that the Belgians would be able to supply much superior information on German movements and locations compared to OTL as even a commercial helicopter would be able to outperform anything in 1914 while their ability to use items like mobile phones and radio intercepts would also be very handy. If you get the right synergy between 1914 numbers and 2021 tech that could be disastrous for the invaders.
One other issue is that OTL having cleared their path by taking Liege the Germans only really screened northern Belgium for a while as their main concern was to invade France. This could be costly for them here as if they get a chance to regroup and muster reserves a Belgium counter attack could be nasty for the Germans.
Another issue is what happens with the regions Belgium gained in 1919? Assuming their brought along as part of modern Belgium it gives them a little more force and could mean that some of the invaders mustering in those regions in 1914 are lost.
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575
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There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Jun 12, 2022 8:36:43 GMT
1) Belgium lands 1. July 1914 - there is still diplomatic crisis in Europe. Imperial Germany will be very annoyed it just lost two small areas north of Luxembourg to Belgium! Declaration of war? 2) 31. July 1914 Germany is declared in a state of emergency - mobilization is declared 1. August 1914 as is war on Imperial Russia. War on France is declared 4. August 1914. Due to 1) there will be a diplomatic crisis involving the signatory powers of the London Protocol of 1830 of Britain, France, Austria, Prussia and Russia which will make for a new dimension to the political situation. Yeah the Germans will just be pissed off but it will serve to put focus on Belgium and the Belgians should use this to rally the Brits, French and Russians. This and 2) gives the Belgians time to: a) by way of foreign diplomats to address the European nations on WWI and subsequent times like depression, Fascism, Communism(yes already a factor), WWII, Cold War etc. etc. and b) begin building up forces. Guess they as my country they have some kit lying around which will be refurbished within a month to be operational. Fix two machineguns to each private owned A/C - a Cessna 172 will outfly anything 1914! Mobilize all aircraft in country and 4WD vehicles and begin manufacturing small arms munitions and iron bombs. Found zis NATO Nuclear Sharing February 2022 Belgium rule!!! |
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Post by shadow007 on Jun 16, 2022 15:12:58 GMT
Are we talking only the Belgian Army or the entire nation?
If the entire nation and population is ISOT then the Germans are screwed. Belgian Drones shoot missiles and drop grenades causing massive casualties just in the first day!
The Allies easily win WW1 and prevent the Armenian Genocide. Bulgaria joins the Allies to gain a piece of the victory pie.
No WW2, no Great Depression and a successful US Civil Rights Movement in the 1920s. Belgium does its best to heal the Congo and prepare it to be an Independent Republic.
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ukron
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Post by ukron on Jun 16, 2022 15:49:18 GMT
The deployment of artillery and missile units will probably cause a huge problem, not to mention that the Belgian general staff is able to foresee each of its adversary's reactions.
Missile strikes (thanks to AGM-65D Mavericks) on railway depots and stations reduced German logistics to a nightmare.
But the attrition of ammunition, not to mention that of fuel and mechanical parts, means that the begles have an interest in identifying each of the weaknesses of the Imperial army and striking them in the first days of the conflict.
From there, engineers and technicians can be evacuated to the rear (France and the United Kingdom) and allow the allies to benefit from certain technological advances (automatic weapons, mechanization of armies, ammunition manufacturing process and refining).
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ukron
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Post by ukron on Jun 16, 2022 15:49:46 GMT
The deployment of artillery and missile units will probably cause a huge problem, not to mention that the Belgian general staff is able to foresee each of its adversary's reactions. Missile strikes (thanks to AGM-65D Mavericks) on railway depots and stations reduced German logistics to a nightmare. But the attrition of ammunition, not to mention that of fuel and mechanical parts, means that they have an interest in identifying each of the weaknesses of the Imperial army and striking them in the first days of the conflict. From there, engineers and technicians can be evacuated to the rear (France and the United Kingdom) and allow the allies to benefit from certain technological advances (automatic weapons, mechanization of armies, ammunition manufacturing process and refining). |
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Post by shadow007 on Jun 16, 2022 23:40:38 GMT
The Germans would be forced to fully commit all their forces against the Belgians. The Austrians are forced to send reinforcements.
Belgium starts advising the Brits, French, Americans, Italians and Russians on how to make better guns, planes and tanks.
WW1 last months, not years
The introduction of Non-Fossil Power would drammatically reduce the environmental damage humans have in the 1920s
The Lost Generation becomes like the Boomers and Millenials. Both the good and bad.
Imagine Djent-Metalcore competing with Jazz in Harlem
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 17, 2022 11:03:20 GMT
The deployment of artillery and missile units will probably cause a huge problem, not to mention that the Belgian general staff is able to foresee each of its adversary's reactions. Missile strikes (thanks to AGM-65D Mavericks) on railway depots and stations reduced German logistics to a nightmare. But the attrition of ammunition, not to mention that of fuel and mechanical parts, means that the begles have an interest in identifying each of the weaknesses of the Imperial army and striking them in the first days of the conflict. From there, engineers and technicians can be evacuated to the rear (France and the United Kingdom) and allow the allies to benefit from certain technological advances (automatic weapons, mechanization of armies, ammunition manufacturing process and refining).
Would agree. Think that possibly the best targets would actually be the HQs if they can identify them as even in the German army that would cause chaos and uncertainty? However railways would also have an impact although given the OTL Belgium sabotage of their own railway system I think the historical German advance through Belgium and into France relied on foot and horse power, which is a major reason why it ultimately failed.
OTL the coastal region was largely bypassed until the attack on Paris failed at the Marne and it was only with the 'race to the sea' that that was occupied. Here if the Germans do that and depending on how much production capacity is there that could be very costly for them. France and Britain would rush aid to Belgium as OTL and probably the best Belgium could do with them - once the down-timers overcome their shock at the new Belgium would be having them providing the bulk of the muscle so to speak while Belgium provides intel on enemy movements and firepower at crucial points. Its possible, provided that all the allies are able to respond quickly enough and the up-timers don't run out of ammo and spares that the German advance could be stopped fairly dead somewhere in the south of the country.
Shock and awe could also play a useful part, a fly past by modern jet a/c even without the damage they can inflict on marching force would terrify many.
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Post by shadow007 on Jun 23, 2022 15:05:35 GMT
China is much better off as Belgium does its best to keep Sun yat-sen alive. Instead of dying at 58 he lives up to 86 or more. China becomes a Democracy.
Both Mao and Chang are purged. Chinese Army is much better trained and equipped.
Averting the Great Depression alone prevents WW2. The quick defeat of the Central Powers also prevents WW2.
Both Bulgaria and the Ottoman Empire don't join the Central Powers
Ireland gains its independence much earlier by resorting to assassination attempts on the British monarch and other politicians
Ethiopia pushes itself to Modernize ASAP once it learns of the Second Italo-Ethiopian War.
The 1920s are several times more Liberal than in our timeline. Social Media, Internet, Video Games, Manga, Webcomics all destroy the Church and Conservative 'values'
Prohibition does not happen in the US. Neither is the illegalization of Weed. Alcohol and Weed sales promote jobs and the economy. But not enough to deal with Automation.
Going from WW1 Generation to Millenial/Gen Z is a massive shift in culture and irreligion
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