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Post by justiniano on Jun 2, 2022 3:13:49 GMT
What if some of the early Indo-Europeans migrated across the Bering-strait
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Jun 2, 2022 14:17:18 GMT
What if some of the early Indo-Europeans migrated across the Bering-strait Great question especially as the established "History" of the migration of man into North America is being debated, thanks to relatively recent research.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE? 
New Research
First Humans Entered the Americas Along the Coast, Not Through the Ice
Evidence mounts against the traditional story of early human migration through an ice corridor
Jason Daley Correspondent in Smithsonian Magazine white logo August 11, 2016
The traditional story of human migration in the Americas goes like this: A group of stone-age people moved from the area of modern-day Siberia to Alaska when receding ocean waters created a land bridge between the two continents across the Bering Strait. Once across, the giant Laurentide and Cordilleran ice sheets, which blocked southern Alaska and the Yukon Territory in western Canada, halted the migrants' progress. But about 13,000 years ago, the ice sheets began retreating, opening a 900-mile-long ice-free corridor following the Canadian Rockies. This, many researchers believe, is how the Clovis culture moved south and colonized other parts of the Americas.
But new evidence has made that timeline hazy over the last decade. Research shows that humans were living south of the ice sheets before the ice-free corridor opened up. A settlement in Monte Verde, Chile, shows people had made it all the way down South America 15,000 years ago and a more recent discovery indicates that humans hunted mammoth in Florida 14,500 years ago.
Now, a new study by an international team of researchers may finally rip the ice corridor hypothesis out of the textbooks once and for all. Using sediment cores and DNA analysis, the scientists reconstructed the corridor's environment. This research shows that there just weren’t enough resources in the pass for the earliest human migrants to successfully make the crossing.
“The bottom line is that even though the physical corridor was open by 13,000 years ago, it was several hundred years before it was possible to use it,” project leader Eske Willerslev, an evolutionary geneticist from the University of Copenhagen and Cambridge University, says in a press release. “That means that the first people entering what is now the US, Central and South America must have taken a different route. Whether you believe these people were Clovis, or someone else, they simply could not have come through the corridor, as long claimed.”
Nicholas Wade at The New York Times reports the researchers looked at an area of the ice-free corridor that was once part of a large lake dubbed Glacial Lake Peace that would have blocked the path. The migrants would not have been able to cross the 6,000-square-mile body of water until it began to recede, an event that would show up in the lake bed sediments in the remains of plants and animals.
Today, that area is covered by Lake Charlie in British Columbia and Spring Lake in Alberta. The team visited the lakes during winter, drilling down into the lake beds to gather sediment cores.
They then applied a technique called “shotgun sequencing” to the materials they brought up, which allowed them to date when plants and animals began colonizing the lake bed. “Instead of looking for specific pieces of DNA from individual species, we basically sequenced everything in there, from bacteria to animals,” Willerslev says in the release. “It’s amazing what you can get out of this. We found evidence of fish, eagles, mammals and plants.”
Wade reports that the scraps of ancient DNA show how Lake Peace receded, slowly opening the ice corridor. Grasses, sedges, birch and willow began colonizing the edges of the shrinking lake, and as it dried, they found evidence of bison, voles, and jack rabbits moving in starting around 12,500 years ago. That means it’s unlikely the area produced enough resources like food and wood for the long migration before that date. Instead, early humans probably followed the Pacific Coast around the ice sheets when colonizing the Americas.
The study echoes another paper that came out in June. In that study, researchers looked at the DNA of northern and southern populations of bison concluding they did not intermingle until 13,000 years ago, meaning the corridor was blocked till then.
Now, to complete the story of human migration in the Americas researchers need to focus on evidence along the coast. That's tricky since erosion, tides and now the effects of climate change make coastal archeological sites very rare.
Jason Daley is a Madison, Wisconsin-based writer specializing in natural history, science, travel, and the environment. His work has appeared in Discover, Popular Science, Outside, Men’s Journal, and other magazines.
Human Origins Migration Native American History Native Americans New Research
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Post by simon darkshade on Jun 2, 2022 14:32:07 GMT
Senior Chief, I’ve oft been interested in the settlement of North America by those skirting the ice sheets across not only the Pacific but also the Atlantic. The map here makes for interesting consideration: www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/nj7gcl/a_map_i_created_which_shows_what_the_earth/I recall seeing a YouTube docudrama on the Clovis folk that explored something similar, albeit on a speculative basis. DNA can give us some strange stuff, like Aboriginal Australian DNA in the Amazon. |
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Post by justiniano on Jun 2, 2022 15:06:26 GMT
I recall seeing a YouTube docudrama on the Clovis folk that explored something similar, albeit on a speculative basis. Can you send me the link? |
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Post by simon darkshade on Jun 2, 2022 15:22:27 GMT
There’s a quick one from the Smithsonian.
This is the one I’m thinking of
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Jun 2, 2022 17:18:06 GMT
Simon great Videos, especially "Solutreans Are Indigenous Americans" I couldn't help but smile when I saw the hull design and flat bottom of the Seal Hunters Boat. It looks exactly like a swampscott Dory, arguably one of the very best sea boats ever built. I am the son and grand son of Cape Ann fishermen and when I was young I spent many happy hours in those dories and well know just how seaworthy they are.
Thanks for the Steer.
I gather it is a segment of "Ice Age Columbus". I wish it were from National Geographic instead of "The Discovery Channel" which has a very checkered record for accuracy. I think "The Discovery Channel" places a priority on entertaining (hence the excellent dramatization),rather than accurate scientific "reporting".
That said, it sure provides a somewhat plausible cover story/plot for justiniano's question.
If we buy the premise "Stone Age hunter-gatherers from Europe could have reached North America by crossing the continuous ice sheet which may have connected the two continents across the Atlantic Ocean at the time. Seal hunters, fishermen and tribal outcasts could have walked or floated from Europe to North America, probably ending up on the Grand Bank islands now submerged off the coast of Newfoundland. According to various climate models presented in the documentary, the prevailing currents at the time flowed from east to west along the edge of the ice cap, so boats would have been carried to the New World as a matter of course. It was a dangerous journey, but according to this theory, it could have been done and probably was done repeatedly.
Here is my problem, given the shit show and downright lies that are used to promote some of modern day scientists' Climate change models, many proving absolutely WRONG with the passage of time I am skeptical. My skepticism certainly does not mean we can't come up with an excellent and highly entertaining ATL.
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Jun 2, 2022 18:01:21 GMT
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 3, 2022 10:57:20 GMT
I remember seeing a similar suggestion on an Horizon science programme a decade or so back. It suggested that there were early settlers who arrived by traveling along the southern edge of the ice cap from France and noted similarities in tools and other artifacts between them and early relics in NE America. Suggested that they latter got swamped by migrants from Siberia but that there might be some genetic evidence of European ancestry in some of the tribes that still lived in the NE. Although how reliably they could exclude inter-breeding with more recent European settlers I don't know.
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miletus12
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To get yourself lost, just follow the signs.
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Post by miletus12 on Jun 3, 2022 11:15:31 GMT
I remember seeing a similar suggestion on an Horizon science programme a decade or so back. It suggested that there were early settlers who arrived by traveling along the southern edge of the ice cap from France and noted similarities in tools and other artifacts between them and early relics in NE America. Suggested that they latter got swamped by migrants from Siberia but that there might be some genetic evidence of European ancestry in some of the tribes that still lived in the NE. Although how reliably they could exclude inter-breeding with more recent European settlers I don't know. One theory still being investigated is a human kill-off event about 10,000 years ago in North America. This was supposed to be part of a larger global wipeout. Then there is the Hopewell annihilation. This hypothesis is also based on "iffy" interpretation of iridium deposits across Ohio River Valley digs (about a dozen of those.) and burn evidence in charcoal layers in about fifty other dated sites. |
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Jun 3, 2022 21:11:44 GMT
I remember seeing a similar suggestion on an Horizon science programme a decade or so back. It suggested that there were early settlers who arrived by traveling along the southern edge of the ice cap from France and noted similarities in tools and other artifacts between them and early relics in NE America. Suggested that they latter got swamped by migrants from Siberia but that there might be some genetic evidence of European ancestry in some of the tribes that still lived in the NE. Although how reliably they could exclude inter-breeding with more recent European settlers I don't know. One theory still being investigated is a human kill-off event about 10,000 years ago in North America. This was supposed to be part of a larger global wipeout. Then there is the Hopewell annihilation. This hypothesis is also based on "iffy" interpretation of iridium deposits across Ohio River Valley digs (about a dozen of those.) and burn evidence in charcoal layers in about fifty other dated sites. Thanks miletus12. These two catastrophic meteor caused kill offs are news to me. I found the two articles intriguing enough to get me to do some more research. Fires covering over 9,200 square miles certainly would not be fun for any proto Americans unlucky to be in that burn circle. Being retired, I have plenty of time on my hands and studying "up" on the "Hopewell annihilation" and the "Younger Dryas impact hypothesis" should help fill that time nicely. Certainly beats being POed at the insanity going on now. 
As usual, you give me plenty to think about; just might help me stave off cognitive decline. For now I show little sign of:
Forgetting appointments and dates.
Forgetting recent conversations and events.
Feeling increasingly overwhelmed by making decisions and plans.
Losing the ability to organize tasks. Becoming more impulsive.
However, having a hard time understanding driving directions is nothing new for me. I'm OK at sea with compass, sextent, an accurate watch, Altitude Correction and Sight Reduction tables, a Plotting Sheet and up to date Nav charts.
Although I am lazy enough to rely on GPS when pressed for time. Got to keep Celestail Nav skills current and that means plenty of practice.
It's land Nav that is my bane. So I thank God for Roger L. Easton of the Naval Research Laboratory, Ivan A. Getting of The Aerospace Corporation, and Bradford Parkinson of the Applied Physics Laboratory the USAF for Navstar now GPS.
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Jul 15, 2022 11:48:16 GMT
What do you folks think of this?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 16, 2022 12:48:59 GMT
What do you folks think of this?
Well I've hear of the Toba explosion theory before but also of other suggests for a bottleneck in human history about 70k years back. There's a bit more on it here.
What does surprise me was the projection that the settlement of the Americas was possibly by as few as 70 people! That's a very small gene pool and hence would have caused a lot of inbreeding although probably by the time of Columbus that would have largely worked itself out. It also suggest either how difficult the passage was or how small overall the total human population, at least in NE Asia was at this point. Of course one factor Joe doesn't mention here is that there is a lot of evidence of humans reaching the Americas earlier than about 16-17k years ago, as we're discussed already. How that would affect the science of that genetic analysis I don't know.
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Jul 17, 2022 12:39:02 GMT
FWIW, Elon Musk has tackled the problem of Mass Human extinction and come down on the side of getting some of us off this planet ASAP. I think,like all geniuses, Elon is a bit strange, OK a lot strange
BUT the man has an excellent track record of doing exactly what he says he will do. Many times that is great things and so IF SpaceX were not a privately owned company my money would literally instead of just figuratively be on Elon and SpaceX.
Elon Musk: Mars civilization is 20-30 years away from landing
The SpaceX founder frequently tweets about reaching Mars
In a Twitter exchange on Friday, SpaceX founder Elon Musk said humanity's estimated timeframe for creating a self-sustaining civilization on Mars is two to three decades away from the first human landing.
"Mars may be a fixer upper of a planet, but it has great potential!" the billionaire wrote.
User @ppathole responded, asking Musk what he believes is the "timeframe for creating a self-sustaining civilization" there.
"20 years? Self-sustaining meaning not relying/[dependent] on Earth for supplies," he said.
"20 to 30 years from first human landing if launch rate growth is exponential," the Tesla co-founder replied. "Assumes transferring ~100k each rendezvous and ~1M total people needed."
"Tesla is to protect life on Earth, SpaceX to extend life beyond," Musk said in a separate post.
This is not the first time the tech leader has discussed colonizing Mars – or the moon.
He has previously touted the idea of becoming a "multi-planet species," building a city on Mars and sending one million people to the red planet by 2050.
Earlier this year, he hinted that a crewed mission to Mars could happen as soon as 2029.
"Humanity will reach Mars in your lifetime," he tweeted on July 6.
Just how feasible or lofty Elon Musk's goals are, however, remains up for debate.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 21, 2022 15:19:52 GMT
FWIW, Elon Musk has tackled the problem of Mass Human extinction and come down on the side of getting some of us off this planet ASAP. I think,like all geniuses, Elon is a bit strange, OK a lot strange
BUT the man has an excellent track record of doing exactly what he says he will do. Many times that is great things and so IF SpaceX were not a privately owned company my money would literally instead of just figuratively be on Elon and SpaceX.
Elon Musk: Mars civilization is 20-30 years away from landing
The SpaceX founder frequently tweets about reaching Mars
In a Twitter exchange on Friday, SpaceX founder Elon Musk said humanity's estimated timeframe for creating a self-sustaining civilization on Mars is two to three decades away from the first human landing.
"Mars may be a fixer upper of a planet, but it has great potential!" the billionaire wrote.
User @ppathole responded, asking Musk what he believes is the "timeframe for creating a self-sustaining civilization" there.
"20 years? Self-sustaining meaning not relying/[dependent] on Earth for supplies," he said.
"20 to 30 years from first human landing if launch rate growth is exponential," the Tesla co-founder replied. "Assumes transferring ~100k each rendezvous and ~1M total people needed."
"Tesla is to protect life on Earth, SpaceX to extend life beyond," Musk said in a separate post.
This is not the first time the tech leader has discussed colonizing Mars – or the moon.
He has previously touted the idea of becoming a "multi-planet species," building a city on Mars and sending one million people to the red planet by 2050.
Earlier this year, he hinted that a crewed mission to Mars could happen as soon as 2029.
"Humanity will reach Mars in your lifetime," he tweeted on July 6.
Just how feasible or lofty Elon Musk's goals are, however, remains up for debate.
I would think that something like O'Neill cylinders would be a better option. You can build them in Earth/Moon orbit using raw materials from the latter a lot easier than massive shipments of people and the necessary support equipment and supplies all the way to Mars. This means you have multiple eggs rather than one and also if something goes wrong their a few days from Earth - or possibly hours from other cylinders - and they, Luna bases and Earth can all possibly aid each other in need.
If people wish they could then move onto other settlements elsewhere, including other planets/moons if desired.
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