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Post by justiniano on May 13, 2022 23:45:08 GMT
I think the biggest reasons for the Spanish civil war was immense wealth inequality and how hard farming was. So let's say the leader of Spain taxes the elites in areas like Catalonia, Asturias & the Basque land more for a short period of time and uses that money to upgrade the equipment of the Spanish farmers. In Spain the output per male laborer in agriculture was 39% of that in the U.K. in 1930, 44% of that in France, and 38% of that in Germany. Let's say the government is able to upgrade enough equipment or buy enough better equipment so that it's per male worker agricultural output is roughly 45% of the UK's by 1930. The 2nd biggest was probs the controversy of becoming a secular or agnostic state. Let's just have the political elites keep Spain as a religious Catholic state.
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Post by simon darkshade on May 14, 2022 2:42:49 GMT
It seems like you are approaching history like a computer game, with the ability to 'increase taxation' by fiat and then 'upgrade the equipment of the Spanish labourers'. That is not the way real life farming or government worked.
Making the left wing Spanish Republicans 'keep Spain as a religious Catholic state' is not really workable.
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Post by justiniano on May 15, 2022 2:08:35 GMT
simon darkshade, What if the spanish left wing wasn't as liberal, like how Japan's left wing would be like a center-right party in taiwan.
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Post by justiniano on May 15, 2022 2:11:01 GMT
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Post by simon darkshade on May 15, 2022 2:51:50 GMT
What if someone’s aunt was a man? That would make them something completely different.
The Spanish left was one of the ‘most left’ such groupings in Europe and even the ‘moderate’ Republicans such as Azana were fundamentally opposed to the Church and monarchy.
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Post by justiniano on May 15, 2022 6:07:01 GMT
simon darkshade, OK, what if a centrist party that didn't exist in OTL won the election instead and did what I proposed in my OP.
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Post by simon darkshade on May 15, 2022 6:57:56 GMT
A completely different variable means a completely different situation and not Spain. I’m not really sure what angle you are going for, but it isn’t alternate history.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 15, 2022 6:59:43 GMT
A completely different variable means a completely different situation and not Spain. I’m not really sure what angle you are going for, but it isn’t alternate history. I agree, this is not AH anymore. |
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Post by simon darkshade on May 15, 2022 9:30:44 GMT
So, the best way to approach this scenario is to slightly shift your thinking and wording:
Rather than a WI, go for an AHC/Alternate History Challenge, or basically ‘How can this be done?’
Then introduce your ideas about farming, inequality and relative radicalism. By throwing it open and phrasing them as questions, you look for other points of view rather than say ‘This is what I think will do it.’
You seem to be looking for answers rather than contending that you have them, so this approach may lead to more success in getting there.
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michelvan
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Post by michelvan on May 15, 2022 16:27:15 GMT
This is tricky one
The Problems that let to Spanish civil War were building up for decades even before World War 1 !
One of reasons Spain was neutral in WW1 were there bad economics and financial troubles...
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Post by justiniano on May 19, 2022 3:40:34 GMT
simon darkshade, lordroel, michelvan, Ok, I've done more research. What if Primo de Rivera did what I posted about Agricultural output. And persecutes secularists into silence
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 19, 2022 3:43:11 GMT
simon darkshade, lordroel, michelvan, Ok, I've done more research. What if Primo de Rivera did what I posted about Agricultural output. And persecutes secularists into silence Not need to tag all members who have posted to in this thread to get a responds, members see a notification when there is a new post in a thread they have responded to. |
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Post by shadow007 on Jun 17, 2022 3:55:35 GMT
Easiest way to prevent civil war is to have the Republican government 'disappear' Franco and other Spanish Fascist leaders.
Republican Spain joins the Allies which can alter WW2 in various ways:
-The French finally have the balls to invade Germany in 1939 resulting in a quick defeat of the Nazis
-Trench warfare in France as the German Blitzkrieg is stalled. French-Spanish forces do their own Stalingrad and Kursk.
-Czechoslovakia gives Hitler the Middle-Finger over the Sudentenland Crisis. WW2 starts in 1938 resulting in an one-sided slaughter for the Axis
300k Spanish soldiers aren't dead and can be thrown at the Nazis. The threat alone is a massive pain for Hitler and Mussolini.
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michelvan
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Post by michelvan on Jun 17, 2022 7:41:32 GMT
-The French finally have the balls to invade Germany in 1939 resulting in a quick defeat of the Nazis or french show balls 1939 and re-occupied Rheinland after German Invasion, giving the Little annoying Austrian a painful session ! -Czechoslovakia gives Hitler the Middle-Finger over the Sudentenland Crisis. WW2 starts in 1938 resulting in an one-sided slaughter for the Axis had Chamberlain only realised that he deal with Austrian bloodthirsty Megalomaniac things could have ended like this Easiest way to prevent civil war is to have the Republican government 'disappear' Franco and other Spanish Fascist leaders. Franko was replacement after there leader died in Aircraft crash... 300k Spanish soldiers aren't dead and can be thrown at the Nazis. The threat alone is a massive pain for Hitler and Mussolini. Here is interesting Pod for you Hitler and Mussolini hate each other deeply ! The first (informal) state visit of Hitler to Italy almost ended in Diplomatic Fiasco, So What If it happen and Mussolini worst fears are confirm that Hitler is barbaric bloodthirsty Megalomaniac and Hitler hate now the Italien for his humiliation state visit to them ? Germans and Italians fighting over control in Spain Civil war and France expolit this with heavy support to republicans while Fascist are dived under Hitler and Mussolini fraction... you got still a civil war but could shorten him down and make less bloodier as OTL |
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