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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Mar 23, 2022 9:29:29 GMT
What is Sir is that Cuba survives. It is among the most self sufficient states on the world. .
Europeans are landing in the Americas in 2 years. What does Cuba do on that time?
The Cubans are aware of the ISOT.
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razor007
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Post by razor007 on Mar 25, 2022 20:34:07 GMT
The Cubans would be in a mad dash to vaccinate the Native Americans and Europeans while getting rich off it
The Industria Revolution, AI Automation and Internet occur in the early-1500s with Spain leading. Ottomans, Mughals and Chinese will also innovate like crazy.
Universal Basic Income and the Scramble for Africa on steroids
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 26, 2022 16:48:39 GMT
The Cubans would be in a mad dash to vaccinate the Native Americans and Europeans while getting rich off it The Industria Revolution, AI Automation and Internet occur in the early-1500s with Spain leading. Ottomans, Mughals and Chinese will also innovate like crazy. Universal Basic Income and the Scramble for Africa on steroids
a) Possibly. I think they would make an attempt anyway, although it could be too late by the time they realise what's happened and where they are. Plus your likely to see a lot of people either seeking to flee Cuba or looking to make their future in the new New World.
b) Not sure the Cubans would be interested in letting the old world know what's happened until their good and ready. Columbus and his ships, presuming they still sail will be picked up by the Cubans and probably never return home. Remembering that Cuba has a limited technological base - does it have any oil or chip manufacturing capacity at all let alone many other areas. Its still going to be way ahead of everybody else but too early contact with the old world is likely to be deemed too risky for the republic. Especially given the vast cultural differences between the two. Not to mention that Cuba has a very large and wealthy area for expansion in the Americas that they can have a monopoly of for quite a while. - You might get earliest contact from the old world that gets back by fishermen finding the Grand Banks which its been suggested may have been know pre-1492 or Portuguese accidental discovery of Brazil by a ship blown off course on its way down the African coast as OTL.
Even if they did the mental attitudes of the old world coupled with the limited capacity of Cuba means you could probably start getting circa 1800-1900 tech in the most advanced locations by say 1600.
c) That mentality might fit a wealthy Cuba and possibly have some impact in places like the [former] Inca empire. Can't see any reason for a scramble for Africa at this stage. Unless and until you get a demand for slaves sub-Saharan Africa has little trade value - although slave raiding/trading will still occur by Muslims in the north and west. True modern medicine from Cuba would make the area far more habitable for non-Africans but Cuba has far more profitable options to their west.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Mar 26, 2022 17:08:07 GMT
Cuba id VERY advanced. In fact it's unlikely to decrease to tech levels lower than 1900.
In fact Cuba is one of the most self-sufficient countries in the world as of 2022. It is harder to find a country more well suited for a time travel then Cuba among developing countries.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 26, 2022 17:38:36 GMT
Cuba id VERY advanced. In fact it's unlikely to decrease to tech levels lower than 1900. In fact Cuba is one of the most self-sufficient countries in the world as of 2022. It is harder to find a country more well suited for a time travel then Cuba among developing countries.
It a lot more self-sufficient compared to many other countries, in part because of the prolonged US sanctions. However how would it supply itself with oil say and how long before it could supply its own advanced electronics? Your probably correct that Cuba itself, barring something serious going wrong, is going to stay ~1900+ but I was thinking more about the rest of the world even with Cuban assistance. Should have stated what I meant more clearly.  |
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Mar 26, 2022 18:06:24 GMT
There is oil in Venezuela and in North America.
The Cubans know the locations of every major field in both Americas.
They might go a long way with just horses and wagons and other sources of power like solar power and wind power.
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razor007
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Post by razor007 on Mar 26, 2022 20:17:07 GMT
Columbus won't arrive until 1492. Cortes doesn't invade the Aztecs until 1510. Plenty of tine to vaccinate and prepare the Natives.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 27, 2022 17:44:43 GMT
There is oil in Venezuela and in North America. The Cubans know the locations of every major field in both Americas. They might go a long way with just horses and wagons and other sources of power like solar power and wind power.
Can they construction and deploy the necessarily drilling gear and sort out supplies of fuel from the new wells before they run out. If not transportation will be an issue. Also do they have the refining capacity? For general use solar and wind would be handy, although with the latter especially you need to have them hurricane proof. Horses and wagons could take them a long way in the Americas however.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 27, 2022 17:48:29 GMT
Columbus won't arrive until 1492. Cortes doesn't invade the Aztecs until 1510. Plenty of tine to vaccinate and prepare the Natives.
You will need the capacity to produce vaccines against a multitude of diseases, including probably flu. Plus persuading the natives to allow you to stick them with needles.
Also the problem is immediate as Cuba is present now and there are bound to be interactions with say Cuban fishermen and locals if not some of the latter visiting Cuba to see what's happened.
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razor007
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Post by razor007 on Mar 28, 2022 3:00:46 GMT
Columbus won't arrive until 1492. Cortes doesn't invade the Aztecs until 1510. Plenty of tine to vaccinate and prepare the Natives.
You will need the capacity to produce vaccines against a multitude of diseases, including probably flu. Plus persuading the natives to allow you to stick them with needles.
Also the problem is immediate as Cuba is present now and there are bound to be interactions with say Cuban fishermen and locals if not some of the latter visiting Cuba to see what's happened.
I doubt Cuban fishermen would be sick. Just make sure they are either vaccinated for Covid or wearing protective suits. Prioritize smallpox and other very dangerous diseases for Native vaccination. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 28, 2022 14:30:51 GMT
You will need the capacity to produce vaccines against a multitude of diseases, including probably flu. Plus persuading the natives to allow you to stick them with needles.
Also the problem is immediate as Cuba is present now and there are bound to be interactions with say Cuban fishermen and locals if not some of the latter visiting Cuba to see what's happened.
I doubt Cuban fishermen would be sick. Just make sure they are either vaccinated for Covid or wearing protective suits. Prioritize smallpox and other very dangerous diseases for Native vaccination.
Under those circumstances this includes things like flu, measles and a lot of other common infections.
Furthermore I think both yellow fever and malaria were unknown to the Americas until accidentally brought across from the old world. Cuba has a good health care system, albeit weakened over time, but I suspect its not totally clear of mosquitos carrying those diseases and their almost certain to spread.
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belushitd
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Post by belushitd on Mar 28, 2022 18:51:13 GMT
I'm not so certain that Cuba would be able to maintain its refining capacity for very long in an ISOT situation. www.argusmedia.com/en/news/2243420-cubas-oil-production-to-fall-for-seventh-yearAccording to that article, their production has fallen for the 7th straight year, due to the refineries and power plants being old Soviet designs. I strongly suspect Cuba has no ability to vaccinate the 1490 population of the Americas as much as one might wish otherwise. Cuba has a chronic shortage of medicines of many types and I strongly suspect they'd end up taking care of number one first, rather than spreading their already thin resources even further. Additionally, until recently approximately 25% of Cuba's GDP consisted of remittances from the US and other places. In an ISOT situation, that's a quarter of their GDP gone, with no possibility of recovering it. To top it off, Cuba is a net importer of food. That's another way of saying that a large part of their population would starve in the case of an ISOT event. I'm not sure one can say that Cuba is self sufficient in any way. Belushi TD |
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Post by shadow007 on Jun 24, 2022 1:09:30 GMT
Cuba could prevent sick Europeans from going to the Americas. Quarantine them in Cuba until treated for a price.
Cuba could buy food from the Native Americans in exchange for helping them develop their tech-base
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