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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Feb 8, 2022 14:06:39 GMT
Lets say in this conworld Viking Age starts 200 years earlier due to faster development of naval technology., The equivalent of the raid on Lindisfarne takes place in 593 rather than 793. Iceland is discovered in 674 AD. Christianization of England and Saxony is delayed.
When could the Norse discover America and what chances that it stays pagan? Getting just 200-250 settlers there would be enough to start an explosive population growth and dominate the continent
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 8, 2022 16:32:42 GMT
Lets say in this conworld Viking Age starts 200 years earlier due to faster development of naval technology., The equivalent of the raid on Lindisfarne takes place in 593 rather than 793. Iceland is discovered in 674 AD. Christianization of England and Saxony is delayed. When could the Norse discover America and what chances that it stays pagan? Getting just 200-250 settlers there would be enough to start an explosive population growth and dominate the continent
If they do start earlier, with the same sort of numbers they might go more for already Christian areas rather than those that are still largely pagan. I have seen suggestions that part of the hostility towards Christian buildings and settlements was in part due to the slaughter of the Old Saxons by Charlemagne as that left the Scandinavians as the last pagan states in west/central Europe and that refugees from the Old Saxons may have been especially prone to attack churches. Mind you since they were generally very wealthy and often relatively undefended.
If the same strength and organisation then it could cause serious problems for Christianity in the west. There are going to be some pretty nasty raids across much of the western coastlines and up the rivers and assuming that Islam takes off as OTL its going to be attacked from the south in a few decades. Which might mean that at least the central power of the Catholic church from Rome is fragmented. Possibly even the eastern church emerges as the primary one in Christianity and ends up spreading further west than OTL? Although if the butterflies stop the coup against Emperor Maurice in 602 and the following and very destructive war between the empire and the Sassanids then Islam might struggle to get out of Arabia.
However in the longer run Christianity and Islam are much more attractive to rulers as they give a base for stronger central power so I would suspect that either/both would come to dominate western and northern Europe eventually. It was really too late for now to paganism in any significant strength to revive and dominant the Med again.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Feb 8, 2022 16:47:01 GMT
What about America? Say Greenland is discovered ca 750 AD
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575
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Post by 575 on Feb 8, 2022 18:58:23 GMT
One important factor is a lack of oak since 536 to the first half of 700's.
Growth of oak had been stunted by the Fimbul Winter which also affected society making for something like a reduction of up to 90 % in at least the island of Fyn. It is argued and in line with oak regrowth that Scandinavian society isn't back to pre-536 standard till early 700's.
It is thus difficult to kick off Viking age earlier than historical!
A side effect of the Viking age is that oak supplies is used up by ca. 1000 when the Viking period ends. The next chance is around 1500 when King Christian 4 builds the first real Danish Battle Fleet. By early 1800 the oak supplies once again have been used up to nicely coincide with the Nap Wars the British robbing our fleet and not being able to rebuild only saved by the advent of metals for shipbuilding.
You have to turn the clock further back prior to 536 when Jutish King Hukleik (possibly of Beowulf Poed fame)raids the Frisians. Actually 536 may have stopped the early Viking age as there seems to have been a Denmark at the time!
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Feb 9, 2022 20:20:41 GMT
I have never heard of oak beong a major factor in the Viking Age
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575
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Post by 575 on Feb 9, 2022 20:52:12 GMT
Well they did build their ships, castles, halls, ports, bridges, roads etc. from it. Quite important. Viking ships found in Denmark are often build from Irish or Norwegian or Baltic timbers due to lack of local ones.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Feb 10, 2022 10:42:56 GMT
Well they did build their ships, castles, halls, ports, bridges, roads etc. from it. Quite important. Viking ships found in Denmark are often build from Irish or Norwegian or Baltic timbers due to lack of local ones. What if the Medieval Warm Period simply starts 200 years earlier? |
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575
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Post by 575 on Feb 10, 2022 19:21:09 GMT
Well they did build their ships, castles, halls, ports, bridges, roads etc. from it. Quite important. Viking ships found in Denmark are often build from Irish or Norwegian or Baltic timbers due to lack of local ones. What if the Medieval Warm Period simply starts 200 years earlier? Its still a question of recovery. Though it would speed things up some. You just can't make those oaks grow faster to 200 year size! |
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