lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 14, 2020 11:06:36 GMT
Can a pope be impeached and removed from office. Probably not officially, especially since the Papacy back in ~1870 made an official policy of papal infallibility - i.e. that the Pope is incapable of making an error in questions of religious doctrine. Of course he might decide that his new beliefs make continuing with the role impossible and resign. Failing that he could always have an unpleasant 'accident'.
So we now have to former popes living in Rome and a Pope i guess will be a save Pope elected. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 14, 2020 12:24:54 GMT
Probably not officially, especially since the Papacy back in ~1870 made an official policy of papal infallibility - i.e. that the Pope is incapable of making an error in questions of religious doctrine. Of course he might decide that his new beliefs make continuing with the role impossible and resign. Failing that he could always have an unpleasant 'accident'.
So we now have to former popes living in Rome and a Pope i guess will be a save Pope elected.
Yes its one of the things that occurred to me when Benedict resigned. I know the Papacy mentioned it had happened before but not for some centuries. Hence there is a question of doctrine on whether he simply became fully human again or retained some divine aspects?  |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Feb 14, 2020 13:35:26 GMT
Can a pope be impeached and removed from office.
Probably not officially, especially since the Papacy back in ~1870 made an official policy of papal infallibility - i.e. that the Pope is incapable of making an error in questions of religious doctrine. Of course he might decide that his new beliefs make continuing with the role impossible and resign. Failing that he could always have an unpleasant 'accident'.
Uh-huh. Well, it’d sure trigger turmoil within the Church itself to know that their earthly leader has lost all faith in the fundamental belief system of Christianity. Though, I believe that papal infallibility applies more to officially codified Church dogma, rather than off-the-ruff personal opinion. Make Pope Francis codify something otherwise heretical into Church dogma, however (i.e. Jesus wasn’t the son of God), and that’s a recipe for a global religious crisis. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 15, 2020 11:52:42 GMT
Probably not officially, especially since the Papacy back in ~1870 made an official policy of papal infallibility - i.e. that the Pope is incapable of making an error in questions of religious doctrine. Of course he might decide that his new beliefs make continuing with the role impossible and resign. Failing that he could always have an unpleasant 'accident'.
Uh-huh. Well, it’d sure trigger turmoil within the Church itself to know that their earthly leader has lost all faith in the fundamental belief system of Christianity. Though, I believe that papal infallibility applies more to officially codified Church dogma, rather than off-the-ruff personal opinion. Make Pope Francis codify something otherwise heretical into Church dogma, however (i.e. Jesus wasn’t the son of God), and that’s a recipe for a global religious crisis.
Well according to the quotes on Wiki
a) Given he's now a devote atheist [in our scenario] he - or the other church leaders - may no longer consider he hold's that office.
b) This seems to suggest its the Pope's power to make any declaration regarding faith or morals, possibly without any import being required, or being ignored from other members of the Catholic church.
However some non-atheist Pope who made a drastic change, such as you suggest, or possibly simply arguing that Jesus, while still God's son was purely human would definitely cause a crisis in the RC Church.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 15, 2020 11:57:36 GMT
However some non-atheist Pope who made a drastic change, such as you suggest, or possibly simply arguing that Jesus, while still God's son was purely human would definitely cause a crisis in the RC Church.
Will not be the first crisis the Church faces, but it will be the biggest one in recent memory. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Feb 15, 2020 12:59:02 GMT
Uh-huh. Well, it’d sure trigger turmoil within the Church itself to know that their earthly leader has lost all faith in the fundamental belief system of Christianity. Though, I believe that papal infallibility applies more to officially codified Church dogma, rather than off-the-ruff personal opinion. Make Pope Francis codify something otherwise heretical into Church dogma, however (i.e. Jesus wasn’t the son of God), and that’s a recipe for a global religious crisis.
Well according to the quotes on Wiki
a) Given he's now a devote atheist [in our scenario] he - or the other church leaders - may no longer consider he hold's that office.
b) This seems to suggest its the Pope's power to make any declaration regarding faith or morals, possibly without any import being required, or being ignored from other members of the Catholic church.
However some non-atheist Pope who made a drastic change, such as you suggest, or possibly simply arguing that Jesus, while still God's son was purely human would definitely cause a crisis in the RC Church.
Steve
Mm’kay. Well, if a Pope who claims that Jesus had no special powers would cause a worldwide theological crisis, then imagine what a Pope who suddenly confessed to being an atheist who thought the whole Bible was bunk would do. Adding onto the normal chaos, vocal accusations of heresy and attempts to have him removed, the Church will have found itself between a rock and a hard place when it comes to reevaluating papal infallibility. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 15, 2020 15:08:30 GMT
What if on 1989 all military hardware is changed to their closest 1945 versions.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Feb 15, 2020 19:28:03 GMT
What if on 1989 all military hardware is changed to their closest 1945 versions. Is this an inconvenience that befalls all national militaries, rather than certain factions like NATO or the Warsaw Pact? |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 15, 2020 19:29:42 GMT
What if on 1989 all military hardware is changed to their closest 1945 versions. Is this an inconvenience that befalls all national militaries, rather than certain factions like NATO or the Warsaw Pact? Nope everybody gets 1945 hardware. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Feb 15, 2020 19:33:34 GMT
Is this an inconvenience that befalls all national militaries, rather than certain factions like NATO or the Warsaw Pact? Nope everybody gets 1945 hardware. ...Okay, well, I suppose that leaves America with lots of M4 Shermans while the Soviets get their multitudinous T34s and KV1s back. Also, what happens to post-WW2 vehicles like helicopters, do they get reduced to the more experimental prototypes that existed in the ‘40s? |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 15, 2020 19:42:54 GMT
Nope everybody gets 1945 hardware. ...Okay, well, I suppose that leaves America with lots of M4 Shermans while the Soviets get their multitudinous T34s and KV1s back. Also, what happens to post-WW2 vehicles like helicopters, do they get reduced to the more experimental prototypes that existed in the ‘40s? Everything as close to 1945 as possible, that might also include those stuff that are on the drawing boards in 1945. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 16, 2020 12:05:27 GMT
What if on 1989 all military hardware is changed to their closest 1945 versions.
Is it the closest to the 45 version or the closest to what that nation - if it existed - had in 45? I.e. only the US had the bomb so they will get things like Fat Man and Little Boy. Would the USSR get similar weapons or none?
Presuming its only affecting existing forces and the basic industrial base and infrastructure would be unchanged the great powers especially would be desperately seeking to rebuild their stocks of weapons, especially nuclear ones although that would take several years before you could get say SSBNs in service again. Although would equipment under construction be affected as well?
The effect would overall be a great leveler for the 3rd world especially as their got far less of a loss of power so that could upset a few apple carts. You might also see if they get the same level of equipment as the Soviets, some unrest in eastern Europe.
There could be some border-line issues on what qualifies as military hardware, think of satellites and launch platforms here for instance.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 16, 2020 12:15:25 GMT
What if on 1989 all military hardware is changed to their closest 1945 versions. Is it the closest to the 45 version or the closest to what that nation - if it existed - had in 45? I.e. only the US had the bomb so they will get things like Fat Man and Little Boy. Would the USSR get similar weapons or none? Presuming its only affecting existing forces and the basic industrial base and infrastructure would be unchanged the great powers especially would be desperately seeking to rebuild their stocks of weapons, especially nuclear ones although that would take several years before you could get say SSBNs in service again. Although would equipment under construction be affected as well? The effect would overall be a great leveler for the 3rd world especially as their got far less of a loss of power so that could upset a few apple carts. You might also see if they get the same level of equipment as the Soviets, some unrest in eastern Europe.
There could be some border-line issues on what qualifies as military hardware, think of satellites and launch platforms here for instance.
Soviet Union would most likely get the same number of Fat Man and Little Boy as they have nuclear weapons, As the Soviet Union also operates heavy bombers like the Bear, they would be replace by the copy of the B-29, the Tupolev Tu-4 . |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 16, 2020 12:37:30 GMT
Is it the closest to the 45 version or the closest to what that nation - if it existed - had in 45? I.e. only the US had the bomb so they will get things like Fat Man and Little Boy. Would the USSR get similar weapons or none? Presuming its only affecting existing forces and the basic industrial base and infrastructure would be unchanged the great powers especially would be desperately seeking to rebuild their stocks of weapons, especially nuclear ones although that would take several years before you could get say SSBNs in service again. Although would equipment under construction be affected as well? The effect would overall be a great leveler for the 3rd world especially as their got far less of a loss of power so that could upset a few apple carts. You might also see if they get the same level of equipment as the Soviets, some unrest in eastern Europe.
There could be some border-line issues on what qualifies as military hardware, think of satellites and launch platforms here for instance.
Soviet Union would most likely get the same number of Fat Man and Little Boy as they have nuclear weapons, As the Soviet Union also operates heavy bombers like the Bear, they would be replace by the copy of the B-29, the Tupolev Tu-4 .
Gods there's going to be a hell of a lot of those old weapons around the world then, although their going to be a lot less lethal compared to what we had OTL in 1989. Sounds like the British, French, Chinese and Israeli nuclear forces will similarly be converted. Although with anyone else who has a 'secret' programme.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Feb 16, 2020 13:56:29 GMT
‘WI The Bible Were Used As A Science Textbook?’.
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