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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 24, 2022 17:54:33 GMT
stevep Initially plans for attack on Denmark (Unternehmen Wesserübung - Süd) called for two German divisions and was to be a sideshow. So Germans need to divert a lot more troops to win. A good strategy for Denmark might be evacuating Jutland and relocate all troops to defend Odense and Copenhagen Not a good idea leaves too much Military infrastructure to the Germans and 3 mill. citizens. Much better to defend the border being a bottleneck. Post WWII Jutland Military infrastructure was built up to be the reserve area and staging area of reinforcements - You just can't move it to Sjælland and Fyn in a couple of months. Too bad the enemy is once again ON the border..
Weserübung had two Infantry Divisions and a Motorized Brigade allocated for Denmark; six Infantry Divisions allocated for Norway and two Infantry Divisions in reserve. It was a sideshow because OKW wanted it that way preparing to taking on the French. That way the only path for the Danes be they invaded is to fight to make it more than a sideshow which may make for serious ripples in German top command.  Yes. The two German divisions are unlikely to last 24h given Danish tech superiority. If you remove just 1-2 Panzer divisions from France, Mansteins sickle cut becomes impossible |
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575
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Post by 575 on Jan 24, 2022 18:28:29 GMT
In a way 1989 would be a much better time as the Airforce had some 64 F-16 and 40 SAAB F-35 and FB/R-35; 729 Sqd. having a dual role! Airforce ground units had lots of mobilization AA-guns. Army - there was in addition to Jutland Division and Sjælland Brigades the Regimental Combat teams - Infantry heavy plus a mobilization Motorized Infantry Battalion for each Brigade. Each Infantry Battalion having its own Mortar or 105mm Art. Bty. Plus much larger reserves and much more Artillery. The 5. Batt. GuardsHussar Regiment was actually an AT-unit using Centurion Vs in a mainly immobile role. Navy - Submarines, MBT(G)s, Standard Flex ships in numbers and Mobile Harpoon Missile Units. Less missiles but still the ASW capacity and Submarines. The real asset was much larger stockpiles of everything both military and for running society - three months worth; along a couple of mothballed field hopitals. Downside almost no computers - no GPS - much less incorporation of assets for central control. Don't really know whats to prefer - numbers or capability though I'd go for capability but will be missing the numbers. Combining the Army of 2000 with MBTs in numbers and modern, retaining larger numbers of Art.tubes with the Airforce of 1988 and Navy of 1996 with the 1989 inventory augmented by modern Fishery Inspection Ships(Frigates) with ASW capability would give numbers and capability though thats outside the OP.  |
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575
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Post by 575 on Jan 24, 2022 18:29:54 GMT
Not a good idea leaves too much Military infrastructure to the Germans and 3 mill. citizens. Much better to defend the border being a bottleneck. Post WWII Jutland Military infrastructure was built up to be the reserve area and staging area of reinforcements - You just can't move it to Sjælland and Fyn in a couple of months. Too bad the enemy is once again ON the border..
Weserübung had two Infantry Divisions and a Motorized Brigade allocated for Denmark; six Infantry Divisions allocated for Norway and two Infantry Divisions in reserve. It was a sideshow because OKW wanted it that way preparing to taking on the French. That way the only path for the Danes be they invaded is to fight to make it more than a sideshow which may make for serious ripples in German top command.  Yes. The two German divisions are unlikely to last 24h given Danish tech superiority. If you remove just 1-2 Panzer divisions from France, Mansteins sickle cut becomes impossible Indeed but OKW wouldn't like that! And there wouldn't be much room for manouevre in Jutland. |
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 24, 2022 18:51:36 GMT
In a way 1989 would be a much better time as the Airforce had some 64 F-16 and 40 SAAB F-35 and FB/R-35; 729 Sqd. having a dual role! Airforce ground units had lots of mobilization AA-guns. Army - there was in addition to Jutland Division and Sjælland Brigades the Regimental Combat teams - Infantry heavy plus a mobilization Motorized Infantry Battalion for each Brigade. Each Infantry Battalion having its own Mortar or 105mm Art. Bty. Plus much larger reserves and much more Artillery. The 5. Batt. GuardsHussar Regiment was actually an AT-unit using Centurion Vs in a mainly immobile role. Navy - Submarines, MBT(G)s, Standard Flex ships in numbers and Mobile Harpoon Missile Units. Less missiles but still the ASW capacity and Submarines. The real asset was much larger stockpiles of everything both military and for running society - three months worth; along a couple of mothballed field hopitals. Downside almost no computers - no GPS - much less incorporation of assets for central control. Don't really know whats to prefer - numbers or capability though I'd go for capability but will be missing the numbers. Combining the Army of 2000 with MBTs in numbers and modern, retaining larger numbers of Art.tubes with the Airforce of 1988 and Navy of 1996 with the 1989 inventory augmented by modern Fishery Inspection Ships(Frigates) with ASW capability would give numbers and capability though thats outside the OP. Wait..did I read correctly? Fishery Inspection ships with ASW capability? |
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575
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Post by 575 on Jan 24, 2022 19:09:07 GMT
In a way 1989 would be a much better time as the Airforce had some 64 F-16 and 40 SAAB F-35 and FB/R-35; 729 Sqd. having a dual role! Airforce ground units had lots of mobilization AA-guns. Army - there was in addition to Jutland Division and Sjælland Brigades the Regimental Combat teams - Infantry heavy plus a mobilization Motorized Infantry Battalion for each Brigade. Each Infantry Battalion having its own Mortar or 105mm Art. Bty. Plus much larger reserves and much more Artillery. The 5. Batt. GuardsHussar Regiment was actually an AT-unit using Centurion Vs in a mainly immobile role. Navy - Submarines, MBT(G)s, Standard Flex ships in numbers and Mobile Harpoon Missile Units. Less missiles but still the ASW capacity and Submarines. The real asset was much larger stockpiles of everything both military and for running society - three months worth; along a couple of mothballed field hopitals. Downside almost no computers - no GPS - much less incorporation of assets for central control. Don't really know whats to prefer - numbers or capability though I'd go for capability but will be missing the numbers. Combining the Army of 2000 with MBTs in numbers and modern, retaining larger numbers of Art.tubes with the Airforce of 1988 and Navy of 1996 with the 1989 inventory augmented by modern Fishery Inspection Ships(Frigates) with ASW capability would give numbers and capability though thats outside the OP.  Wait..did I read correctly? Fishery Inspection ships with ASW capability? You read correctly ASW capability + one HELO today a MH-60R previously a Sea Lynx Mk.90.
Forgot about the Local Defence Regions which would effectively add 2 combat groups of mixed Army/Home Guard Battalions in Jutland and Fyn, 2 in Sjælland and 1 on Bornholm. Each one Motorized Infantry Battalion (Army), one Motorized Infantry Coy (Home Guard), 1-8 Home Guard Battalions.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 24, 2022 19:11:44 GMT
Wait..did I read correctly? Fishery Inspection ships with ASW capability? You read correctly ASW capability + one HELO today a MH-60R previously a Sea Lynx Mk.90. Forgot about the Local Defence Regions which would effectively add 2 combat groups of mixed Army/Home Guard Battalions in Jutland and Fyn, 2 in Sjælland and 1 on Bornholm. Each one Motorized Infantry Battalion (Army), one Motorized Infantry Coy (Home Guard), 1-8 Home Guard Battalions.
Now that would be something nice to do, update the 1989 Danish Orbat to what they are not using in 2022, that would be a heck of a force to deal with. |
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 24, 2022 19:40:22 GMT
You read correctly ASW capability + one HELO today a MH-60R previously a Sea Lynx Mk.90. Forgot about the Local Defence Regions which would effectively add 2 combat groups of mixed Army/Home Guard Battalions in Jutland and Fyn, 2 in Sjælland and 1 on Bornholm. Each one Motorized Infantry Battalion (Army), one Motorized Infantry Coy (Home Guard), 1-8 Home Guard Battalions.
Now that would be something nice to do, update the 1989 Danish Orbat to what they are not using in 2022, that would be a heck of a force to deal with. Or add the rest of Fennoscandia but that's a topic for another thread |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 25, 2022 11:29:54 GMT
In a way 1989 would be a much better time as the Airforce had some 64 F-16 and 40 SAAB F-35 and FB/R-35; 729 Sqd. having a dual role! Airforce ground units had lots of mobilization AA-guns. Army - there was in addition to Jutland Division and Sjælland Brigades the Regimental Combat teams - Infantry heavy plus a mobilization Motorized Infantry Battalion for each Brigade. Each Infantry Battalion having its own Mortar or 105mm Art. Bty. Plus much larger reserves and much more Artillery. The 5. Batt. GuardsHussar Regiment was actually an AT-unit using Centurion Vs in a mainly immobile role. Navy - Submarines, MBT(G)s, Standard Flex ships in numbers and Mobile Harpoon Missile Units. Less missiles but still the ASW capacity and Submarines. The real asset was much larger stockpiles of everything both military and for running society - three months worth; along a couple of mothballed field hopitals. Downside almost no computers - no GPS - much less incorporation of assets for central control. Don't really know whats to prefer - numbers or capability though I'd go for capability but will be missing the numbers. Combining the Army of 2000 with MBTs in numbers and modern, retaining larger numbers of Art.tubes with the Airforce of 1988 and Navy of 1996 with the 1989 inventory augmented by modern Fishery Inspection Ships(Frigates) with ASW capability would give numbers and capability though thats outside the OP.
I think 1989 would probably be better for Denmark than 2019. There's markedly more resources and the tech advantage is still substantial. At the same time the lower tech might make it easier to adjust to the down-time world and also possibly easier to pass on tech to down-time allies. However we're rather committed to the 2019 scenario now.
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razor007
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Post by razor007 on Mar 26, 2022 20:44:22 GMT
Denmark shares knowledge and technology with the Allies resulting in the Axis being curbstomped.
Soviets don't invade Finland due to the Fins getting advanced weaponry
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melanie
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Post by melanie on Mar 29, 2022 3:58:55 GMT
Why put forward the fabled “German Army coups Hitler”? In the real 1939, They showed a complete lack of nerve facing a war they all knew Germany couldn’t win. An ISOT wouldn’t change that spineless cowardice. See also: the French failure to press the Saar offensive.
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Post by shadow007 on Jun 19, 2022 1:26:44 GMT
Why put forward the fabled “German Army coups Hitler”? In the real 1939, They showed a complete lack of nerve facing a war they all knew Germany couldn’t win. An ISOT wouldn’t change that spineless cowardice. See also: the French failure to press the Saar offensive. What do Hitler and Castro have in common? Over 100 Assassination attempts Operation Valkyrie is one attempted coup The more one-sided the war becomes the more unstable Germany and Italy become Danish Intel shows France that Germany throws over 90% of its forces at Poland. France easily takes 1/4th of Germany then hunkers down. Finland, Norway and Greece militarize and upgrade their technology as fast as possible Poland tells its Jewish population Hitler is coming to kill them all so they are conscripted as cannon fodder or trench workers |
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