carduus
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Post by carduus on Nov 11, 2021 18:26:15 GMT
Premise: 10,000 random people from the mid-1300s are dropped on an earthlike planet that has only existed for 50 million years, and had life on it for 10,000. We are handwaving that they have access to plants/animals/fungi that were on Earth, and that the planet is sufficiently Earth-similar (other than the lack of fossils/biocarbons) that it isn't a factor.
My thoughts: A young planet means no time for biological stuff. The obvious losses would be fossil fuels. But on further reflection, anything that relies on fossils would be affected: limestone (and thus marble), chalk, calcite, talc, and a large percentage of accessible sulfur, due to (as I understand it) most salt-dome sulfur requiring microbial processes on the scale of hundreds of thousands of years. Easily-accessible potassium nitrate from limestone caves wouldn't exist, because limestone doesn't exist.
So we have a stagnation point on heat production high enough for advanced metallurgy due to lack of coal products, and another one on rarity of gunpowder.
Can you think of any other stagnation points? How could a society progress with these limitations?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 11, 2021 18:30:19 GMT
Premise: 10,000 random people from the mid-1300s are dropped on an earthlike planet At least they have more change of surviving on that planet then if you dropped 10,000 modern day people on a planet. |
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575
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Post by 575 on Nov 12, 2021 8:16:38 GMT
Premise: 10,000 random people from the mid-1300s are dropped on an earthlike planet that has only existed for 50 million years, and had life on it for 10,000. We are handwaving that they have access to plants/animals/fungi that were on Earth, and that the planet is sufficiently Earth-similar (other than the lack of fossils/biocarbons) that it isn't a factor. My thoughts: A young planet means no time for biological stuff. The obvious losses would be fossil fuels. But on further reflection, anything that relies on fossils would be affected: limestone (and thus marble), chalk, calcite, talc, and a large percentage of accessible sulfur, due to (as I understand it) most salt-dome sulfur requiring microbial processes on the scale of hundreds of thousands of years. Easily-accessible potassium nitrate from limestone caves wouldn't exist, because limestone doesn't exist. So we have a stagnation point on heat production high enough for advanced metallurgy due to lack of coal products, and another one on rarity of gunpowder. Can you think of any other stagnation points? How could a society progress with these limitations? But with life for only 10,000 years that wouldn't be much more than bacteria, microbes, plants and perhaps fish in the sea - if any as I understand it.. seems a pretty barren land with lots of volcanism. Though as I understand your post they have access to Earth plants/animals/fungi of mid-1300; or are we back at square one???  |
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carduus
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Post by carduus on Nov 12, 2021 22:16:23 GMT
Let's say a sort of Noah's ark of 10,000 of every species as of 1348. How would that affect your answer?
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575
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Post by 575 on Nov 12, 2021 22:59:02 GMT
Let's say a sort of Noah's ark of 10,000 of every species as of 1348. How would that affect your answer? Well lets just say that I didn't write down that thought but I did entertain it so it fits my impression of Your world. The alternative was just too morbid.
So basically a 10,000 of each species on earth is transported to this young planet. It will require some thought and planning on the part of the peoples but they were capable of such as the Norse in Greenland did do irrigation to increase the harvest of hay for feeding livestock during winter. No cogs or other large sailing ships for a couple of hundred years have to make do with boats. You will have to sew the boards of the boats together basically a kind of bronzeage boat for sailing and fishing. Problem with fuel for burning.. Charcoal will be a possible but will have to wait some time yet - animal dung anybody? Elephants will be very sought for.  The 10,000 may be grateful for being out of the grabs of the pestilence but it will be a quite ascetic life for the first century or two with the odd rampaging through the countryside of those unable to wait out.
Edit: with the planet being this young I assume there must be a lot of vulcanism going on which may make for natural furnaces - Vulkan will get a comeback! Of course there will be limitations as to duration of working because of eruptions. Which could make for a heating source as well - "now kids go get some lava moms need to cook" Stone will be the logical choice of building till you have large enough forests - so be patient about the log cabins.
Then feeding 10,000 peoples on 10,000 items of crops and animals for a year before first harvest.. though in the tropics or subtropics it may only be come a quarter even then how large a die-off!
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carduus
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Post by carduus on Nov 13, 2021 20:07:41 GMT
I completely agree that the short term would be difficult, but it would be difficult in a predictable way. I'm more interested in what it's going to look like in 500 years or so without access to the pretty fundamental problems with a young planet I thought of, and probably a bunch I haven't thought of, especially in the technology department. Pneumatics can probably cover some uses of gunpowder, but without easy access to gunpowder, I'd have to imagine the chemistry and oxygenation knowledge would be slow coming.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 13, 2021 20:18:15 GMT
I completely agree that the short term would be difficult, but it would be difficult in a predictable way. I'm more interested in what it's going to look like in 500 years or so without access to the pretty fundamental problems with a young planet I thought of, and probably a bunch I haven't thought of, especially in the technology department. Pneumatics can probably cover some uses of gunpowder, but without easy access to gunpowder, I'd have to imagine the chemistry and oxygenation knowledge would be slow coming. Does this Earth like planet have one ore more Moons than Earth ore anything that might give the people a sign they are not on Earth anymore. |
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carduus
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Post by carduus on Nov 14, 2021 2:10:31 GMT
There is plenty of indication they're not on Earth. The sun is smaller and whiter, the moon looks more like Callisto, the star systems would be completely unrecognizable.
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Dec 15, 2021 23:37:41 GMT
There is plenty of indication they're not on Earth. The sun is smaller and whiter, the moon looks more like Callisto, the star systems would be completely unrecognizable. They die on arrival. To quote Jimmy Doohan as Mister Scott; "There's no changing the laws of physics, captain!" Snowball Earth. |
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