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Post by simon darkshade on Sept 12, 2021 9:55:37 GMT
A simple proposition: Admiral Nelson survives Trafalgar without injury.
What happens?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 12, 2021 10:08:00 GMT
A simple proposition: Admiral Nelson survives Trafalgar without injury. What happens? And wins the battle. welcome to the Horatio Nelson, 1st Earl Nelson and Viscount Merton, of Trafalgar and of Merton in the County of Surreyr. Ore that is if i am right looking at what his older brother got as tittle: Since Nelson died without legitimate issue, his viscountcy and his barony created in 1798, both "of the Nile and of Burnham Thorpe in the County of Norfolk", became extinct upon his death. However, the barony created in 1801, "of the Nile and of Hilborough in the County of Norfolk", passed by a special remainder, which included Nelson's father and sisters and their male issue, to the Reverend William Nelson, who was Nelson's older brother. In November 1805, William Nelson was created Earl Nelson and Viscount Merton, of Trafalgar and of Merton in the County of Surrey, in recognition of his late brother's services, and he also inherited the dukedom of Bronté.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 12, 2021 10:43:02 GMT
A simple proposition: Admiral Nelson survives Trafalgar without injury. What happens? And wins the battle. welcome to the Horatio Nelson, 1st Earl Nelson and Viscount Merton, of Trafalgar and of Merton in the County of Surreyr. Ore that is if i am right looking at what his older brother got as tittle: Since Nelson died without legitimate issue, his viscountcy and his barony created in 1798, both "of the Nile and of Burnham Thorpe in the County of Norfolk", became extinct upon his death. However, the barony created in 1801, "of the Nile and of Hilborough in the County of Norfolk", passed by a special remainder, which included Nelson's father and sisters and their male issue, to the Reverend William Nelson, who was Nelson's older brother. In November 1805, William Nelson was created Earl Nelson and Viscount Merton, of Trafalgar and of Merton in the County of Surrey, in recognition of his late brother's services, and he also inherited the dukedom of Bronté.
That's rather a snub to his daughter but unfortunately pretty much inevitable given the values of the time.  Mind you might have been a bit different if living longer meant he and Emma had other children, especially a son that could change somewhat.
I have seen it suggested that if Nelson hadn't died at Trafalgar, or possibly later in the war he would have been pretty much at his peak. Given his relatively low birth and scandalous relationship with Emma while he was wildly popular in the country he wasn't that popular in the establishment. Also while a brilliant admiral and general naval officer at sea he probably wouldn't have fitted it at a higher desk job such as on the Board of Admiralty
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 12, 2021 10:56:20 GMT
And wins the battle. welcome to the Horatio Nelson, 1st Earl Nelson and Viscount Merton, of Trafalgar and of Merton in the County of Surreyr. Ore that is if i am right looking at what his older brother got as tittle: Since Nelson died without legitimate issue, his viscountcy and his barony created in 1798, both "of the Nile and of Burnham Thorpe in the County of Norfolk", became extinct upon his death. However, the barony created in 1801, "of the Nile and of Hilborough in the County of Norfolk", passed by a special remainder, which included Nelson's father and sisters and their male issue, to the Reverend William Nelson, who was Nelson's older brother. In November 1805, William Nelson was created Earl Nelson and Viscount Merton, of Trafalgar and of Merton in the County of Surrey, in recognition of his late brother's services, and he also inherited the dukedom of Bronté.
That's rather a snub to his daughter but unfortunately pretty much inevitable given the values of the time. Mind you might have been a bit different if living longer meant he and Emma had other children, especially a son that could change somewhat. I have seen it suggested that if Nelson hadn't died at Trafalgar, or possibly later in the war he would have been pretty much at his peak. Given his relatively low birth and scandalous relationship with Emma while he was wildly popular in the country he wasn't that popular in the establishment. Also while a brilliant admiral and general naval officer at sea he probably wouldn't have fitted it at a higher desk job such as on the Board of Admiralty
So he died at the height of his success. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 12, 2021 11:37:18 GMT
That's rather a snub to his daughter but unfortunately pretty much inevitable given the values of the time. Mind you might have been a bit different if living longer meant he and Emma had other children, especially a son that could change somewhat. I have seen it suggested that if Nelson hadn't died at Trafalgar, or possibly later in the war he would have been pretty much at his peak. Given his relatively low birth and scandalous relationship with Emma while he was wildly popular in the country he wasn't that popular in the establishment. Also while a brilliant admiral and general naval officer at sea he probably wouldn't have fitted it at a higher desk job such as on the Board of Admiralty
So he died at the height of his success.
Pretty much. After Trafalgar while there was a continual need for blockading of France and its allies and occasionally supporting allies as well as steps, largely by the army, to try and prevent France obtaining more ships its unlikely there would be any further great battles. Think the next time a large British fleet saw action as such was in 1816 with the Bombardment_of_Algiers, to suppress Barbary piracy and release Christian slaves taken by the pirates. I doubt he would have seen any action in the 1812 conflict, assuming it still occurred, since the British forces involved would really have been too small and scattered compare with what was needed to blockade France. Possibly in 1814/15 after the French surrender - wonder if he would have made any difference at Baltimore say but that would have been about it I suspect. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 12, 2021 11:38:59 GMT
So he died at the height of his success. Pretty much. After Trafalgar while there was a continual need for blockading of France and its allies and occasionally supporting allies as well as steps, largely by the army, to try and prevent France obtaining more ships its unlikely there would be any further great battles. Think the next time a large British fleet saw action as such was in 1816 with the Bombardment_of_Algiers, to suppress Barbary piracy and release Christian slaves taken by the pirates. I doubt he would have seen any action in the 1812 conflict, assuming it still occurred, since the British forces involved would really have been too small and scattered compare with what was needed to blockade France. Possibly in 1814/15 after the French surrender - wonder if he would have made any difference at Baltimore say but that would have been about it I suspect. And unlike his land counterpart i do not think he would go into politics as he looked like more of a man who wanted action instead of a desk. |
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belushitd
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Post by belushitd on Sept 13, 2021 2:07:55 GMT
Had Nelson survived Trafalgar, my take on the situation is that he would have annoyed the hell out of Admiralty by demanding all kinds of adventures to keep the Royal Navy busy. Cutting out expeditions into larger and better defended ports, amphibious operations, raids, etc. The odds are that he would have ended up getting his command cut up badly doing something vainglorious and foolhardy, but which would have been absolutely SPECTACULAR had he pulled them off. Probably would have lost a lot of ships and men in the process, seriously tarnishing his legacy.
In our timeline, he did, in fact, die at the height of his skills and popularity. As W.E.B. Griffon put it, "A soldier should die with the last bullet fired in the last battle of the war. Nelson went a little early, but in doing so, managed to inspire the Royal Navy for the last 216 (almost) years to perform actions that are the stuff of legend.
Belushi TD
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 14, 2021 16:46:49 GMT
Had Nelson survived Trafalgar, my take on the situation is that he would have annoyed the hell out of Admiralty by demanding all kinds of adventures to keep the Royal Navy busy. Cutting out expeditions into larger and better defended ports, amphibious operations, raids, etc. The odds are that he would have ended up getting his command cut up badly doing something vainglorious and foolhardy, but which would have been absolutely SPECTACULAR had he pulled them off. Probably would have lost a lot of ships and men in the process, seriously tarnishing his legacy. Belushi TD Would be fun to see if he could successfully do the British invasion of the River Plate in 1806 and win instead of the loss the British suffered in OTL. |
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Sept 14, 2021 17:49:24 GMT
That's rather a snub to his daughter but unfortunately pretty much inevitable given the values of the time. Mind you might have been a bit different if living longer meant he and Emma had other children, especially a son that could change somewhat. I have seen it suggested that if Nelson hadn't died at Trafalgar, or possibly later in the war he would have been pretty much at his peak. Given his relatively low birth and scandalous relationship with Emma while he was wildly popular in the country he wasn't that popular in the establishment. Also while a brilliant admiral and general naval officer at sea he probably wouldn't have fitted it at a higher desk job such as on the Board of Admiralty
So he died at the height of his success. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 14, 2021 17:54:37 GMT
So he died at the height of his success. So he might live a few years longer then OTL. |
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belushitd
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Post by belushitd on Sept 15, 2021 2:15:12 GMT
So he died at the height of his success. Piffle. The Royal Navy was notorious for permitting people who were physically unable to go to sea to hold high command for ungodly numbers of years. The most egregious example of this, of course, was Sir Provo William Perry Wallis. Look him up. Worth the time. When it was suggested to him when he was in his 90's that he retire and clear the way for younger men, his response was to request a seagoing command. Belushi TD |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 15, 2021 2:52:43 GMT
By Trafalgar Nelson was a physical wreck. I doubt he would have been actively employed for long, if at all. Piffle. The Royal Navy was notorious for permitting people who were physically unable to go to sea to hold high command for ungodly numbers of years. The most egregious example of this, of course, was Sir Provo William Perry Wallis. Look him up. Worth the time. When it was suggested to him when he was in his 90's that he retire and clear the way for younger men, his response was to request a seagoing command. Belushi TD Interesting, man to read this Sir Provo William Perry Wallis, especially the fact that on his death, four admirals below him on the active list were able to gain immediate promotion. Do not think we need to worry about Nelson going to become 100, unless we get a ASB involved. |
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Mind you might have been a bit different if living longer meant he and Emma had other children, especially a son that could change somewhat.