Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 5, 2021 21:04:37 GMT
With 2020 having finally drawn to a close, it's evident that lots of people hope for a reversal of fortunes in 2021. Those living in the UK and the areas that fall under its influence are no exception, given how hectic their year has also been. Unfortunately for them, they might've just jinxed themselves by voicing that hope.
For on January 1st, 2021, Great Britain and her main dominions—Canada, Australia, and New Zealand—are sent exactly two-thousand years back in time to January 1st, 21 A.D. To mitigate the inevitable economic suffering it'll undergo, nearby assets and territories abroad are also sent along for the ride. These include energy facilities in the North Sea, as well as troops and other military impedimenta located overseas (who are brought back to the mainland in the ensuing ISOT). Canada, Australia, and New Zealand experience similar changes to set them up for the scenario they've been thrown into.
Now that they stand alone in a world millennia removed from their own with no one but each other to rely on in the short term, how does the uptimer nations fare upon being sent to 21 A.D.? While it may be a stretch to resurrect the British Empire and make Canada, Australia, and New Zealand dominions again, perhaps the formation of an "Anglospheric Union" to serve as a political and trading bloc will nonetheless be beneficial for the member states. How they interact with the various downtimer populations they come across--Romans, Greeks, and Native Americans aplenty--should prove real interesting, to say the least.
Thank you in advance, Zyobot
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 6, 2021 11:32:50 GMT
With 2020 having finally drawn to a close, it's evident that lots of people hope for a reversal of fortunes in 2021. Those living in the UK and the areas that fall under its influence are no exception, given how hectic their year has also been. Unfortunately for them, they might've just jinxed themselves by voicing that hope.
For on January 1st, 2021, Great Britain and her main dominions—Canada, Australia, and New Zealand—are sent exactly two-thousand years back in time to January 1st, 21 A.D. To mitigate the inevitable economic suffering it'll undergo, nearby assets and territories abroad are also sent along for the ride. These include energy facilities in the North Sea, as well as troops and other military impedimenta located overseas (who are brought back to the mainland in the ensuing ISOT). Canada, Australia, and New Zealand experience similar changes to set them up for the scenario they've been thrown into.
Now that they stand alone in a world millennia removed from their own with no one but each other to rely on in the short term, how does the uptimer nations fare upon being sent to 21 A.D.? While it may be a stretch to resurrect the British Empire and make Canada, Australia, and New Zealand dominions again, perhaps the formation of an "Anglospheric Union" to serve as a political and trading bloc will nonetheless be beneficial for the member states. How they interact with the various downtimer populations they come across--Romans, Greeks, and Native Americans aplenty--should prove real interesting, to say the least.
Thank you in advance, Zyobot
Damn I should have looked up the list to see you had set this up as just sent a reply to the previous post. Copied it to below.
Looking forward to seeing how you think things will go.
Steve
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 6, 2021 21:13:25 GMT
Agreed. It definitely wouldn't be a British empire with the others having any subordinate status. Likely to be a loose federation rather than any tight political status but they would support each other when needed and would provide a decent balance of resources. [Plus I suspect Australia would definitely prefer being somewhat cooler after the wild-fires and other extreme weather events their had recently.] I'm not sure if it'd be of much use in the short term (due to the loss of overseas connections and companies associated with it), but I wonder if the UK's financial sector could become an economic lynchpin for the Anglospheric Union on the long haul? In the meantime, Canada has raw materials like timber, oil/gas and various ores--all of which are used to manufacture and process tangible consumer products that people rely on for their daily needs. Australia and New Zealand, I'm not as sure about. In any case, I'd assume that rationing not seen since World War II will be reinstated. Probably accompanied by a second round of victory gardens too, though areas with more ample agricultural sectors may have less need for those as is. a) Relations with neighbours, both powerful ones like the Roman empire and the multiple of smaller tribal states such as in N America south of Canada, Ireland and Germany/Scandinavia for Britain and whatever is in the Indo-China region. How much you interact with them or not and whether you try and uplift them and if so in which ways. Also there will be a lot of moral issues about practices in many regions, slavery, human sacrifice, gladiatorial games etc. Problems of that sort occurred to me, as well. Given their proximity, maybe Canada will be more willing to make contact with Native American tribes to their south. For Britain, my guess is that they'll concentrate on domestic issues before branching out. Though, in the circumstance where the Romans "make contact" first, they'll have no choice but to respond appropriately--which would soon reveal that they're not the same Britons that the downtimers know and look down upon. Considering how much knowledge has either been lost or misshapen over the centuries, I'm skeptical of how useful uptimer knowledge will be in regards to "less developed" downtimer societies. I will, however, admit that I'm no authoritative source when it comes to that. How the uptimers might rid these regions of the world of the more barbaric traditions you listed above is another important question, indeed. Maybe they could dangle advancements that downtimers would be receptive to--modern medicine, indoor plumbing, new agricultural techniques and machinery, and so on--in front of them, but only help them set those up once they've done away with the really bad shit they currently practice. I think it'd be too much to expect the Greco-Romans to leap from deeply ingrained patriarchy to "Holy feminism, Batman!" in only a few years' time, but maybe after a generation or two, you might get a dynamic in which women enjoy legal equality, but are still expected to be devoted wives and homemakers who subordinate whatever career aspirations they have to "their husbands' will" and "the needs of their families". b) Religion, with a certain young man in Palestine attracting some possibly unwelcome attention  while no real Christian churches and organisations exist yet. Do the Catholics seek to select a new pope, look to Christ or what for instance. Similarly what do the up-time Muslims do? Can they be certain will all the changes Mohammad will still turn up in ~600 years or do they seek to 'liberate' their holy cities? Jews will have to decide what they want to do about their people in the AD21 world as well along with Buddhists and Hindus and probably some other groups. Others such as Sikhs are like Islam in that their religion doesn't exist yet so have that problem to resolve. Of course the uptime as well as down-time governments are unlikely to be happy with groups seeking to wander off into the down-time world, even if they think its for the best of reasons. That's something I hadn't thought about myself. Now that you mention it, though, I can see particularly fanatical Christians actively seeking Jesus out (though whether he'd be entirely what they think of him as is another discussion). Radicalized Muslims could be similarly reckless, with the risk amplified by the fact that religious extremism among their ranks has been a problem lately. On the other side of the aisle, Greco-Roman reactions to how Jesus will become the centerpiece of what evolves into the largest religion in the world--or at least, would have if the timeline were left to run its course naturally--should prove interesting, too. If they go ahead and crucify him, there's the risk they make him a martyr, with his supporters experiencing major confirmation bias once they receive news from abroad about how big Christianity is in 2021. If they let him live, then he presumably keeps preaching, much to the ire of the downtimer Jewish leadership. In all honestly, it's probably good that I haven't gone so far as to start a TL on this, as I'm torn on how things might unfold here. c) Ditto with any foreigners in the up-time locations. Do they feel any identity with the down-time populations. Not to mention say military or other adventurers who might be motivated by personal desires to say build their own kingdom somewhere in the down-time areas. Well, I'd think that foreigners caught in the ISOT will receive aid to keep them on their feet for a while, both from uptimer governments and private charity. In the wake of an ISOT as disruptive as this one, that'd be the first priority of ~99% of them. Some of them may think otherwise, but I lean towards even more nationalistic uptimers being so far removed from their downtimer ancestors that they'd feel far less inclined to associate with them than if they were sent to 1900 or so. Given all that has happened in two-thousand years, many of the hallmarks and achievements they laud their nations for haven't made their mark--and, thanks to butterflies, likely never will. By this, I mean stuff like Russian nationalists being disappointed in the fact that Russia's not even a geopolitical entity yet, much less how the Slavic tribes who'd have otherwise formed it don't have victory in the Great Patriotic War or once-superpower status to their name. My guess is that similar would prove true for (what few) German nationalists that exist nowadays, though a few fervid ones might try to get "in touch" with veterans of the Battle of Teutoburg Forest or something equally reckless. That said, Italian (and perhaps also Greek) nationalists have much more to be excited about, given that the Roman Empire is still around. Though, the more sensible of their lot may find themselves disillusioned, or at least "seeking the betterment of", Greco-Roman society once they're reminded of the more barbaric traditions that abound there. Probably best if I wait before writing more to see what you actually set up. Given what I've written so far, I'm not sure what else there is to set up before further discussion can take place. Unless, of course, there are vague parameters that I need to clear up. As I said upstream, I'm not planning to write a TL based on this specific scenario (though that's not to rule out me doing so in the future). Having said that, thank you for those points. As usual, they got the pot stirring in a way that significantly adds to what's already been said so far. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 7, 2021 12:10:09 GMT
I'm not sure if it'd be of much use in the short term (due to the loss of overseas connections and companies associated with it), but I wonder if the UK's financial sector could become an economic lynchpin for the Anglospheric Union on the long haul? In the meantime, Canada has raw materials like timber, oil/gas and various ores--all of which are used to manufacture and process tangible consumer products that people rely on for their daily needs. Australia and New Zealand, I'm not as sure about. In any case, I'd assume that rationing not seen since World War II will be reinstated. Probably accompanied by a second round of victory gardens too, though areas with more ample agricultural sectors may have less need for those as is.
Trying to respond to the points and hoping I haven't missed anything.
Britain's financial sector will take a big hit as much of its trade and investments will have disappeared. It would have to refocus on activities in Britain and later the dominions. Probably would be better if there were more of the regional banks and societies that used to exist that would be more inclined to invest in such activities. Possibly with their power fractured the city of London might be reined in considerably, although that would take a strong government willing to act.
Canada has a decent industrial base of its own, although how much is dependent on trade with or items from the US I don't know. This would be a problem for all the up-time nations, but especially Britain I suspect given the decline of local industry and especially in high tech areas like chip production. There's going to be a period of retrenchment while the up-timers have to rebuild quite a number of capacities from scratch pretty much. Going to be a need to try and maintain old PCs and other such devices for as long as possible until that is reconstructed and people are going to have to accept a markedly lower level of technology for quite a while. Plus a lot of foodstuff which is produced elsewhere is likely to be missing for quite a while even when we get contact and trade with Canada and the ANZ [Australia/New Zealand] region. You could see some areas such as the Azores and Canaries, which I believe are uninhabited yet, occupied both as stopping points for ships and for some tropical/semi tropical foodstuffs. Iceland is also probably somewhere that they would look to settle for a staging post to access its fisheries as well.
As well as foodstuffs Australia produces a lot of industrial raw materials. New Zealand is famous for its sheep, as is Oz but not sure what other exports they have. Possibly have a look at the CIA Factbook as that would give good guides. Of course with them opening up trade contact would be required. While say the Canary Is are one step you would need others as well as fuel supplies and other facilities based on them. The Cape Town area would be an obvious one, although there might be political reluctance for such a step as it could be seen as 're-colonisation' by some. [Although I think the region at the moment is actually largely populated, probably fairly thinly by the earlier Bushman/San people and the sort of negro population we're used to haven't reached the region yet. So a careful contact with the region could end up - if done successfully - actually boosting the San and preventing the 'blacks' most people would think of as natives from actually reaching the region.] Further east not sure if Madagascar was settled yet but probably Mauritius could be an alternative - which also gives the chance to rescue the Dodo.  Those might give sufficient bases for regular trade between Britain and the ANZ area. There is a possibility of direct trade across the Pacific between ANZ and Canada and I think its probably too early for a lot of the Polynesian settlement yet so the up timers could get to Hawaii and some of the other islands 1st.
Once such routes are opened up food supplies won't be an issue as Canada and ANZ have considerable surpluses, expect for specifically tropical sorts of food. In fact they could probably supply a lot of food to down-time areas. Which could be a good factor to influence some of those regions but: a) You would need to avoid causing serious social problems by undercutting local farmers, who are the overwhelming majority of the population. b) Delivery would be a problem as I can't see any down-time location having the capacity to hand even old-fashioned tramp steamers, if any still exist let alone huge container ships.
Which does actually bring up another point. Given the massive use of flags of convenience I wonder how many MS the up-time nations have. Although its likely there are a fair number of other ships in dock or in their local waters brought alone with the ISOT.
The Canadians will definitely be making 1st contact with the local native Americans as they will have them literally over the border, a concept that will mean nothing to the latter. Especially in areas that will be more heavily populated such as the eastern forests, which are going to be pretty much restored to their full glory. That will be an interesting sight and shock to people in places like Windsor, Niagara and other points near the old southern border. Hopefully some of the up-time natives can help here although in 2,000 years a lot of the culture, language and probably even identity of many of the people to the south will have changed. Of course one huge concern is of disease and especially here, with so few domesticated animals for the down-timers its almost certain to be overwhelmingly one way. Finding the natives and persuading them to get inoculated against assorted diseases, even when such treatments exists could be a problem, although at least smallpox won't be a problem here, at least in the Americas until it comes over from the old world.
Britain I suspect will have to face up to the Roman issue immediately, at least in terms of persuading them to 'keep off our grass'. After all, even assuming no bases on Cyprus or Gibraltar we have the Channel Is and have 'occupied' a couple of Roman provinces as far as their concerned. Plus the fact there's only ~20 miles between the empire and us. Hopefully some people sent over to see what's happened to the Britannia provinces will be the 1st contact point and they can learn enough that no one sends over a legion or two. Which is likely to be nasty for the latter.
At this point its 7 years since Tiberius succeeded Augustus as emperor and the empire has in recent years put down a number of revolts in areas like the Balkans although they have given up on the provinces east of the Rhine after the Varus fiasco in 9AD. Tiberius's son is still alive, until 23AD OTL so if his death could be avoided that could prevent the emperor declining into a "dark, reclusive and somber ruler". Ironically this is the year that Arminius, the man who inflicted that defeat at the Teutoburg Forest was killed by other Germans, fearing he was becoming too powerful.
Also at this point their main foreign opponent is the Parthian empire to the east, although this is generally markedly weaker than Rome.
This is going to be a serious problem, especially as some of those traditions are either economically very important [such as slavery], religious or cultural traditions [gladiatorial games] or deep parts of their culture such as the extremely patriarchal and hierarchical societies of Rome for instance. It might be easier to help some of the more 'primitive' tribal societies, although some of them have even darker issues like human sacrifice. Coupled with the devastation of disease, which Britain especially would face a threat of it going both ways and possibly raids, especially from Ireland but possibly also from Scandinavia/Frisia/Germany sort of areas. Until the country gets used to those they could produce some nasty surprises and even then unless the forces make some punitive raids their going to have to keep a watch out. Under those circumstances I can see the opposition to capital punishment - which will seem very, very strange to the down-timers - being weakened if not removed.
There will be issues of politics as well as your likely to see assorted groups from the empire, once they realise the up-timers power, trying to make deals which could bring a new period of instability to the empire. Or ideas that the two great nations should combine against the barbarians in Germany and neighbouring areas. Even a few private 'contractors' especially if they have military experience could cause no end of upheaval. Which various moral reformers or religious groups are likely to cause no end of problems. The government could end up seeking to ban such contacts other than approved diplomatic or historical missions.
I could see a hell of a lot of Christians wanted at least to know more about him and to contact him, as well as probably some media groups! All of which is likely to cause chaos and a fair bit of discontent in the empire. Some will want to 'save' him from the empire while news of his 'historical' importance and that the religion founded in his name ultimately displaced that of Rome could see down-timers seeking to end his life earlier. You might also see some down-time Jews thinking along similar lines once they find out that his religion basically sidelines them and then later is the cause of much persecution. Correspondingly up-time Jews and other people will want to avoid the later Jewish revolt and its bloody suppression. You might see significant elements of the British population arguing that Palestine should come under British protection given its religious/cultural importance. What the Muslims and other religious groups are going to do as well. Its all going to be an almighty mess and I can't see there is a good solution. You could well see, especially if there's some conflict, the idea of liberating the empire by conquering it totally and bringing modern ideas and values to it. Britain, once its secured its economic and food supply would be capable of doing this and it would be attractive to many, including a fair number of liberals I think. It might even work but would be a hell of a mess for a couple of generations probably until the surviving down-timers [expecting a lot of deaths from disease and general economic disruption as well as probably a lot of internal violence] accept such ideas.
I suspect there would be some fools given human nature. Possibly a bit further down the line it might be more a case of some of the eastern groups where cultures they [think] they can identify with, such as India, China and the like think they can help uplift those cultures. Also I wouldn't rule out a few US ex-pats wanting to 'restore' that state, or at least found some sort of settlement with that ultimate intent. Italians and Greeks especially might also want to help those cultures, which could mean some conflict as the latter would probably want to encourage Greek independence.
You also have the issue with those and any other groups having contact with especially settled regions like the Roman empire bringing diseases back. Smallpox being the most obvious issue as its been 'extinct' so long I'm not sure how easy it would be to vaccinate against it although Cowpox might still be present. Possibly some 21AD version of say measles or flu which current vaccines don't protect against. As well of course as what could go the other way.
Anyway this was meant to be a quick reply but it grew again.
Steve
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 8, 2021 2:19:41 GMT
This isn't an immediate concern, but I wonder how Greco-Romans would react to the fact that this completely unfamiliar Britain once ruled all of this:  Given the circumstances that led to Rome's ascendance throughout the centuries, perhaps it should've been predictable that another great power would emerge given enough time. Even so, I'm not sure they ever envisioned the backwater island they were used to dealing with become the biggest empire the world has ever seen. Especially in regards to its control over lands that the Romans never knew of in the first place, such as North America. There's also other achievements, like drafting the Magna Carta and kickstarting the Industrial Revolution, though those would be less obvious. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 8, 2021 12:49:09 GMT
This isn't an immediate concern, but I wonder how Greco-Romans would react to the fact that this completely unfamiliar Britain once ruled all of this: Given the circumstances that led to Rome's ascendance throughout the centuries, perhaps it should've been predictable that another great power would emerge given enough time. Even so, I'm not sure they ever envisioned the backwater island they were used to dealing with become the biggest empire the world has ever seen. Especially in regards to its control over lands that the Romans never knew of in the first place, such as North America. There's also other achievements, like drafting the Magna Carta and kickstarting the Industrial Revolution, though those would be less obvious.
Given it was a predominantly maritime empire that would probably make them think of Carthage, which is the state they would be most familiar with. They would be uncertain about the nature of many of the lands of the British empire as to their value and importance, although they would of course know of Egypt, and Cyprus and have some information on India. Which would probably be the areas that would impress them most as they would be known as areas of great wealth and population.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 8, 2021 12:55:54 GMT
Zyobot , A couple of points I forgot to mention earlier.
a) Canada has two land borders so I would expect it would steadily absorb Alaska.
b) We would have to consider differences in climate. Not sure what the local climate was like around the world in 21AD but given the lower level of CO2 is likely to make it colder. Which would probably be popular in Australia but could be a problem in Canada and the UK. Even if Britain gets the colder temperatures and snow fall levels from my childhood say I'm going to be feeling a hell of a lot colder this time of year. Although we will have few of the baking hot summers we have got fairly used to. There will initially be a heat island of transported air and water around the UK but its pretty quickly going to dissipate. This could be a factor fairly early on, within weeks or months and it could take a while for governments and people to realise this will be the new standard.
Steve
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 8, 2021 20:19:12 GMT
This isn't an immediate concern, but I wonder how Greco-Romans would react to the fact that this completely unfamiliar Britain once ruled all of this: Given the circumstances that led to Rome's ascendance throughout the centuries, perhaps it should've been predictable that another great power would emerge given enough time. Even so, I'm not sure they ever envisioned the backwater island they were used to dealing with become the biggest empire the world has ever seen. Especially in regards to its control over lands that the Romans never knew of in the first place, such as North America. There's also other achievements, like drafting the Magna Carta and kickstarting the Industrial Revolution, though those would be less obvious.
Given it was a predominantly maritime empire that would probably make them think of Carthage, which is the state they would be most familiar with. They would be uncertain about the nature of many of the lands of the British empire as to their value and importance, although they would of course know of Egypt, and Cyprus and have some information on India. Which would probably be the areas that would impress them most as they would be known as areas of great wealth and population.
Comparisons with Carthage seem reasonable to me, ditto with the fact that Great Britain was once a worldwide trade empire with the greatest navy the world had ever seen (up until being eclipsed by the United States, anyway). I know less about Cyprus and Egypt, but the fact that India became an economic lynchpin that now boasts over a billion people would undoubtedly have their attention. They might also be impressed upon learning about the size and contributions of unknown lands like Canada and Australia, given their natural resources and economic output. Some of them might also have fever dreams of conquering unoccupied parts of the Americas, sans Canada since it can defend itself just like Britain. Of course, such dreams would also be dashed from the beginning, given that a) the Anglospheric Union will defend native peoples' claims to their lands in the face of Greco-Roman incursions and b) they definitely won't help them sail their way to the Americas fourteen centuries early. So really, aspirations to conquer all the new lands they find about would be a lost cause from the outset. Hopefully, they don't have too many delusional idiots who refuse to accept that reality as is, albeit more for their sake than that of the uptimers'. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 9, 2021 12:41:23 GMT
Given it was a predominantly maritime empire that would probably make them think of Carthage, which is the state they would be most familiar with. They would be uncertain about the nature of many of the lands of the British empire as to their value and importance, although they would of course know of Egypt, and Cyprus and have some information on India. Which would probably be the areas that would impress them most as they would be known as areas of great wealth and population.
Comparisons with Carthage seem reasonable to me, ditto with the fact that Great Britain was once a worldwide trade empire with the greatest navy the world had ever seen (up until being eclipsed by the United States, anyway). I know less about Cyprus and Egypt, but the fact that India became an economic lynchpin that now boasts over a billion people would undoubtedly have their attention. They might also be impressed upon learning about the size and contributions of unknown lands like Canada and Australia, given their natural resources and economic output. Some of them might also have fever dreams of conquering unoccupied parts of the Americas, sans Canada since it can defend itself just like Britain. Of course, such dreams would also be dashed from the beginning, given that a) the Anglospheric Union will defend native peoples' claims to their lands in the face of Greco-Roman incursions and b) they definitely won't help them sail their way to the Americas fourteen centuries early. So really, aspirations to conquer all the new lands they find about would be a lost cause from the outset. Hopefully, they don't have too many delusional idiots who refuse to accept that reality as is, albeit more for their sake than that of the uptimers'.
Good point. I hadn't considered the Romans, or possibly others, as news spreads of the wider world, seeking to expand into such lands. Suspect that its more likely you might see traders, possibly with imperial support seeking to establish contact with such lands as it would really be beyond Roman capacity for shipping any military force across the Atlantic say. They might try something along either African coasts but it would be a long, long way before they got to lands that weren't very dangerous disease wise, let alone what what the natives could do, or the weather. Plus even if someone gives them a detailed map of the world with distances its probably not going to include ocean currents and wind patterns, which would be a serious problem for them.
In terms of nations other than the Romans China is in a period of dispute as the Han have been displaced by the short lived Xin dynasty in 9AD, but that is replaced by the revived Han in 23AD. [The sole emperor of this dynasty proposed major land reforms, giving much to the peasants and also ended slavery. This made him unpopular with the aristocrats The latter o and big landowners but the disorder resulting and massive floods of the Yellow River which displaced many peasants meant he was actually killed by an enraged peasant mob]. The latter or Easter Han were fairly active militarily but that was largely by land and they may have influenced events as far as the Caspian but possibly an emperor who finds out about the wider world might look towards SE Asia.
The Parthian empire was more nomadic warriors in background so I doubt they would be likely to look wider. The Kingdom_of_Aksum or Axum which seems to have existed since ~85BC although its great period started about 100AD. This seems to have been a prominent navy power so if it learns more it might seek expansion into lands further along the African coast or more into southern Arabia where it was influential OTL. In India the Early_Cholas might also be a factor in the wider world although details on their actual power and how far they traveled is unclear. The later Cholas, who were at their height in ~8th-10th C AD had a lot of influence in the Malayan peninsula and Sumatra. That region and Java were connected in trade with both India and China from ~8th C BC but not sure of its actual character.
As such the most likely people who gain knowledge from the up-timers and might look towards expand by sea might be Aksum or possibly S India or western Indonesia.
I suspect that the latter might be less of a concern for the up-timers as its more likely to be trade and commercial expansion rather than militarily and there wouldn't be the same disease issues as with people making contact with the Americas or the Pacific islands. However we could end up getting drawn into stopping piracy and anti-slavery patrols if we start the latter.
Steve
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sandyman
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Post by sandyman on Jan 13, 2021 13:21:19 GMT
What should be remembered is that any natives found would not have any protection against any virus or infection that we would be vaccinated against
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 13, 2021 15:01:25 GMT
What should be remembered is that any natives found would not have any protection against any virus or infection that we would be vaccinated against
That's why there is concern about contact with the Americas and Pacific islands especially. We're uncertain about how things will go with the old world as that has a better base of protection but could be vulnerable to modern versions of flu and the like, even assuming we leave Covid behind. [If we don't then Britain especially is in the middle of a serious pandemic and suddenly cut off from a lot of supply sources]. Also there is the fear of infection the other way with disease like smallpox, plague etc as well as possibly we might have problems with infections such as flu, measles or something like that which could be vastly different 2,000 years ago.
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while no real Christian churches and organisations exist yet. Do the Catholics seek to select a new pope, look to Christ or what for instance. Similarly what do the up-time Muslims do? Can they be certain will all the changes Mohammad will still turn up in ~600 years or do they seek to 'liberate' their holy cities? Jews will have to decide what they want to do about their people in the AD21 world as well along with Buddhists and Hindus and probably some other groups. Others such as Sikhs are like Islam in that their religion doesn't exist yet so have that problem to resolve. Of course the uptime as well as down-time governments are unlikely to be happy with groups seeking to wander off into the down-time world, even if they think its for the best of reasons.
Those might give sufficient bases for regular trade between Britain and the ANZ area. There is a possibility of direct trade across the Pacific between ANZ and Canada and I think its probably too early for a lot of the Polynesian settlement yet so the up timers could get to Hawaii and some of the other islands 1st.