kasumigenx
Lieutenant Commander
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Post by kasumigenx on Dec 18, 2020 4:13:06 GMT
Spare the Pagans
On the early 1600’s the Spanish would end proselytizing with the Hindus of the Upper Cagayan Valley River after the Magalat Revolt and the Irraya would stop revolting against the Spanish and the Spanish would militarily retreat and for some reason the Catholic Priests leave the Hindu tribes of Pampanga River and the Cagayan River alone, leaving the numerous pagan tribes to be able to have peace by themselves with the Spanish and the former Islamic lands near the seas and manila de bay in the Northern Half of Luzon would be Christianized and the Hindus would be hostile to any missionary activity by the Catholics causing the interior of the Island of Luzon to remain pagan.
The same peace would be done with the Lumads in Mindanao but the Lumads would be cordial with the Spanish compared to the Hindus and other Pagans in Luzon or Selurong but the Spanish would choose to ignore them and the Spanish would ally with the Lumads against the Moros or Muslims in the South.
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kasumigenx
Lieutenant Commander
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Post by kasumigenx on Dec 18, 2020 4:13:30 GMT
Effects of Sakoku
After the Japanese would declare Sakoku or Isolation as well as the loss of Formosa to the Dutch, the Spanish would lose interest in maintaining rule in the Northern Half of Luzon causing the Pagans to slowly reclaim the coasts that were Christianized, including Pampanga causing a Christian former Muslim minority in the Northern half of the Island because the Pagans in Northern Luzon would start to increase in population and they would both overwhelm the Christians and the Spanish administration there.
Due to Christian Japanese refugees trickling in the Spanish would relocate them to the Southern Half of Luzon which already has a Chinese population in it which would mean that there would be a counterbalance to the Chinese in the Southern half of Luzon.
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gillan1220
Fleet admiral
I've been depressed recently. Slow replies coming in the next few days.
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Post by gillan1220 on Dec 18, 2020 8:56:42 GMT
There are many different possibilities on how the Philippines would have been. A Chinese settlement or have it fall under the entire Sultanate of Sulu is a possibility.
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kasumigenx
Lieutenant Commander
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Post by kasumigenx on Dec 18, 2020 10:17:48 GMT
There are many different possibilities on how the Philippines would have been. A Chinese settlement or have it fall under the entire Sultanate of Sulu is a possibility. Luzon is traditionally Sinophobic - having the Pagans live I don't think it will be attractive to Chinese, I see Visayas having more Chinese settlement. |
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kasumigenx
Lieutenant Commander
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Post by kasumigenx on Dec 18, 2020 10:18:52 GMT
There is one thing different that happened in this timeline
- The Pagans are NOT decimated by the Spanish in Luzon and not subjected to forced conversion and survive like the Lumads.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Dec 18, 2020 12:36:57 GMT
There is one thing different that happened in this timeline - The Pagans are NOT decimated by the Spanish in Luzon and not subjected to forced conversion and survive like the Lumads.
Just to clarify what are you talking about by pagans please? Ancient tribal religions, which is what the term normally means in the west or there was a reference to a significant Hindu population there. If you mean the latter then that would be an interesting and potentially significant change if they can avoid being forcibly converted later by the Spanish or others.
Steve
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kasumigenx
Lieutenant Commander
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Post by kasumigenx on Dec 19, 2020 5:38:10 GMT
There is one thing different that happened in this timeline - The Pagans are NOT decimated by the Spanish in Luzon and not subjected to forced conversion and survive like the Lumads.
Just to clarify what are you talking about by pagans please? Ancient tribal religions, which is what the term normally means in the west or there was a reference to a significant Hindu population there. If you mean the latter then that would be an interesting and potentially significant change if they can avoid being forcibly converted later by the Spanish or others.
Steve
The Hindus in Luzon are Hindu in the same vein as Indonesians or the East Timorese Hindus basically they worship the Hindu gods with their name on it similar to Greek/Roman pantheon. The Christians in Luzon are primarily former muslims, I think the Pagans in Luzon and the Spanish could have a better relation in the same vein as that of the Lumads in Mindanao. |
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kasumigenx
Lieutenant Commander
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Post by kasumigenx on Jan 2, 2021 10:15:58 GMT
Philip IV
Balthasar Charles would marry his cousin, Marianna of Austria and his father, Philip would marry Anne Marie of Orleans who was given dowry for her inheritance which will not be transmitted to any of her children, Philip would marry his daughter, Maria Theresa to the King of France, the marriage of Anne Marie of Orleans would be blessed with children.
Balthasar Charles and his wife Marianna would have children, but only his daughter, Margaret Theresa(1651) would have children but ultimately chose the children of Anne Marie D’Orleans and Philip IV of Spain would succeed Balthasar Carlos’s son Philip V on 1710, the eldest daughter of Margaret Theresa, Maria Antonia would marry the eldest son of Anne Marie D’Orleans, Philip, their son, Charles III(1689) would marry Elizabeth Farnese adding Parma to the Spanish inheritance.
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kasumigenx
Lieutenant Commander
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Post by kasumigenx on Jan 2, 2021 10:16:30 GMT
Northern Luzon revolt
On the late 1600s the pagans would start to overwhelm the Christians as the Christians in the North started to revolt under Malong and Almazan, Koxinga would threaten Manila which would mean that the Spanish would garrison Manila and put in the Merdicas in Manila and in Cavite, the Spanish would lose against Almazan but the weakened Christian population would be overwhelmed and become a minority as the Pagans would repopulate in areas near the sea.
Both the Koxinga attack and the Christian revolts would damage the Spanish authority in Luzon and the Pagans would take advantage of the Christian revolts in the North of Luzon, however the Spanish would be able to drive Koxinga away from Manila and reclaim authority in the South of Luzon.
The Spanish would leave both the Pagans in Luzon and Mindanao alone and focus on the trade between Mexico and Acapulco, compared to the Pagans in Mindanao, the Pagans in Luzon would want to reclaim the south of Luzon as theirs as a part of the whole Selurong as they start to coalescence their national identity.
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