kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on Dec 6, 2020 17:34:02 GMT
If Rizal was kept Alive there would have been no Philippines, as there would have been a Luzon nationalism instead, since the story of what Rizal has been planning to write in his third book is about and related Luzon's history, keeping Rizal alive would have prevented the 1898 war. The butterflies would be interesting. Rizal actually did not favor independence but political reform. He knew the dangers of what early independence for the Philippines would be like. In OTL, it was messy with so much power struggles and infighting. Of course, it probably means Rizal won't be the Philippines' National Hero in this timeline. Only Luzon would have been independent in a timeline where he lives, but I think the only thing that would have butterflied the war with America would be selling Luzon to Britain in the Madrid treaty and not giving up Northern Borneo.
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Dec 6, 2020 18:01:03 GMT
The butterflies would be interesting. Rizal actually did not favor independence but political reform. He knew the dangers of what early independence for the Philippines would be like. In OTL, it was messy with so much power struggles and infighting. Of course, it probably means Rizal won't be the Philippines' National Hero in this timeline. Only Luzon would have been independent in a timeline where he lives, but I think the only thing that would have butterflied the war with America would be selling Luzon to Britain in the Madrid treaty and not giving up Northern Borneo. The question is what would become of the islands of Palawan, Romblon, and Masbate (all geographically part of Luzon) and the Visayas (Panay, Negros, Cebu, Bohol, Samar, Leyte, Siquijor, and Camiguin)? These islands aren't strong enough to be on their own since these do not offer much resources aside from a few farming, fishing, and lumber. My guess at some point either Luzon would start to expand or the Sultanate of Sulu in Mindanao would make them as outposts. Remember in the 1500s-1600s, Muslim pirates and bandits used to attack coastal settlements in the Visayas hence why there are forts and watchtowers by the coastline. Though these pirate attacks died down by the 1700s, I'm sure the Sultanate would want to have a foothold in the Visayas.
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eurofed
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Post by eurofed on Dec 6, 2020 21:12:21 GMT
Though how the Germans would handle the Filipino insurgency, with the Herero example, we might see a worse German atrocities in the Philippines that might be on par with the WWII Nazi atrocities or the infamous Belgian atrocities in the Congo, given the German reputation for handling such insurgencies. Heck, no. Slandering Imperial Germany about the Herero as a special bad case is damn wrong, a typical example of the nasty meme that Germans have been external Nazis throughout all of their existence. One thing most European powers were exactly alike (admittedly Belgium in Congo was a special bad case) is their treatment of their colonial subjects. What the Germans did to the Herero is nothing more and nothing less than what the British, French, Italians, or Russians did in similar circumstances. It's not even limited to Europeans or Western powers by any means. History is bursting at the seams with countless examples of successful polities of any imaginable ethnicity, culture, and religion that crushed resistance to their rule or expansion by means that are a litany of war crimes and crimes against humanity by modern standards. TTL German administration of its colonies is not really different from what OTL Britain and France did. The comparison is especially apt since ITTL Germany and Italy arose as a result of successful 1848 revolutions, so they are liberal-democratic but imperialist like the Western powers (and TTL Japan). TTL France is a special case: b/c of suffering a worse trauma and losses in the Franco-German-Italian War, it might easily go fascist. ITTL the special bad case of Belgian Congo won't exist because Germany colonizes all of Mittelafrika. On the other hand, If an analogue is going to exist ITTL, it is in all likelihood Nazi France creating a 'heart of darkness' in Algeria, West Africa, and/or Indochina. Hmm, ITTL Japan modernized slightly earlier (say a decade) and hence was able to defeat China and Russia, and absorb Korea and Greater Manchuria, much earlier (say about 20 years) and more successfully. They may or may not bother to let Korea go through a preparatory protectorate stage for a few years, depending on political variables; in any case, assimilation of Korea is much more successful thanks to a mix of cultural assimilation, enfranchisement, merger and intermarriage of Japanese and Korean elites, and the Japanese coming as agents of modernization and development for the Koreans in comparison to the backward and hidebound Korean kingdom. Japanese assimilation of Korea plays out a lot like the Korean DLC of the Meji Reforms. An equivalent of Manchukuo for Greater Manchuria is almost surely not happening b/c when Japan seized the area from China and Russia, the Qing are still in charge of China and it happens early enough to prevent or undo any significant Han or Russian settlement in the region. It is still a sparsely-populated land with a few Manchu natives that is ripe for extensive Japanese-Korean settlement. A Manchu protectorate makes no sense, it would only encourage Qing revanchism. The Philippines is an interesting special case. On one hand, Japan has no real precedent for its conquests other than annexation yet. On the other hand, there are reasons (distance, greater cultural and religious differences, possible wish to use the PI as a template for the rest of the region) why Japan may well start experimenting with the client state solution. Japan-Korea-Greater Manchuria is a natural geopolitical unit that the Japanese have many reasons to wish forging as tight as possible. Southeast Asia, it might go either ways. No. This is not the PoD at play here. A close equivalent of the 1898 war does not happen b/c TTL USA absorbed all of North America (barring Haiti and a few British island colonies) well before the turn of the century. They got the Spanish Greater Antilles in 1819-21, well before the PI were on their horizon. They may or may not become interested in supporting the Filipino revolutionaries and intervening in the PI, but it requires a different casus belli than the OTL one. If TTL America intervenes, it is b/c it is showing a specific interest in the PI, not as an appendix of its concern about Cuba. The divergence for America starts sometime between the French and Indian War and the ARW, so we can safely assume different guys run for President in 1900. For that matter, ITTL the USA successfully assimilated all of North America and dealt with the social legacy of slavery either by peaceful emancipation and resettlement of the Blacks in Africa or by fighting an ACW with foreign involvement, enacting radical Reconstruction, and preventing Jim Crow. These changes surely make it more multicultural and left-wing, but even more imperialist. ITTL Manifest Destiny republican expansionism has an excellent record to speak for itself, anti-imperialism not so much. However, it may well be that (northern) South America instead of the Pacific becomes the main focus of further US imperialism, or for that matter Australasia instead of the PI.
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Dec 6, 2020 21:53:24 GMT
You might need a different PoD for the US to even absorb all of North America in this case, though your typical classical "US Wins War of 1812" comes to mind. However, absorbing Mexico might be a bridge too far due to the historical anti-Catholic sentiment there (even when the US would later open its doors to Catholic immigration from Italy and Ireland in this case, as well as parts of Germany that remained Catholic). Yes, I do apologize for the whole "Imperial Germany as proto-Nazis" thing, though I forgot that other nations had practiced the whole 'exterminate the natives' thing, especially the Russians with regards to the Circassians and the Americans towards the indigenous populations there. What I could predict with a German colonial administration in the Philippines might be a German equivalent of the Thomasites coming into the Philippines and reforming Philippine education there. I also think that you might also have some limited amount of industrialization happening there, as well as Prussian style of behavior (military service leading to civil service and German behavioral values like efficiency and punctuality). I shudder to think what a German-trained Philippine colonial troops might be like in battle.
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eurofed
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Post by eurofed on Dec 6, 2020 23:09:05 GMT
Another good PoD that might have led to a complete butterfly of the events leading to the Philippine Revolution of 1896 would be in 1871 when Spain actually gets a Hohenzollern King (forgot who it was going to be the candidate), and a couple of years down the road with a worsened Spanish economic crisis, Spain is forced to sell the entirety of its East Indies colonies to Germany. Hmm, yes, the Hohenzollern/Savoia Spain butterfly. It might well happen ITTL, but not in the way and with the consequences you might expect. ITTL European history seriously starts to diverge with the 1848-49 revolutions, and quite possibly the first seeds are sown in 1815. Napoleon is able to stay in the field longer after the Hundred Days, defeating the first Coalition armies sent against him by skillful maneuver, but eventually the superior numbers and convergent action of his enemies overwhelm him. This angers the victors in dealing a harsher peace to France, with the loss of Alsace, Lorraine, Corsica, and the eastern portions of Dauphine and Provence. Fast forward to 1848 through a lot of the usual Restoration stuff. The 1848 Revolutions are successful thanks to several factors, including Frederick III and Victor Emmanuel II taking the thrones of Prussia and Piedmont and aligning their states with liberalism and nationalism, various political and military variables bringing the Habsburg to their knees, and Russia being overwhelmed by rebellion of its non-Russian subjects. The liberal-democratic states of Germany, Italy, and Hungary-Croatia arise and form the Central Powers bloc. Scandinavia unifies as well, but stands apart. France goes the usual Napoleonic way and tries to intervene to recover its lost territories, but is only partially successful. The French are able to take western Lorraine and the eastern portions of Dauphine and Provence, but the other territories they covet escape their grasp. The Germans and the Italians are able to defend their borders and prevent France from undoing their unifications. Neither side deems the issue settled, but both sides accept the compromise for the moment b/c they need post-revolutionary stabilization. An expanded version of the Crimean War occurs, and Russia is pushed back into the 1939 borders, freeing the unwilling subjects of the Tsar that were not able to cast off the yoke before. In any case, Poland-Lithuania joins the CP, Romania merges with Hungary-Croatia, and Scandinavia takes Finland and Latvia-Estonia. France later invades Mexico and possibly intervenes in the ACW together with Britain, but the Union kicks Entente butt in either case. Nappy III weathers the backlash of defeat in North America by blaming distance, logistic difficulties, and his allies. To restore his prestige, he pivots to seeking a second round for greater gains with Germany and Italy. The CP have been building up their industrial and military power since unification, so it does not end well for him or his country. An additional twist to the casus belli of the 2nd Franco-German-Italian War may well be the Spanish succession issue. ITTL the liberal CP bloc has been a remarkable success story, including development of a proto-EU/NATO equivalent. Therefore, it is entirely plausible a liberal revolution occurs in Spain just before the war and the revolutionaries seek to replace the rotten Bourbon, imitate the CP, and build ties with them by putting a Hohenzollern or a Savoia on the throne. Both options were on the table IOTL, and here there is no meaningful difference since Germany and Italy are close allies. France of course panics and declares war since it is Charles V's empire all the way again, only worse. The Germans and the Italians crush France, with allied Spain joining in the fun. Germany takes western Lorraine and Luxemburg, Italy annexes the eastern portions of Dauphine and Provence, and Spain takes French Navarra and Roussillon. The outcome of the war cements Hohenzollern/Savoia Spain as a member of the CP bloc. This means liberal reforms, good opportunities for Spain to trade and industrialize within an EU-style environment, economic development, and political stabilization. Spain experiences a national rebirth and reverses its OTL decline and malaise. France is bursting in impotent rage about being humiliated, shrunk, and trapped in permanent encirclement, but there is little the French can do about it except going North Korea-lite, clinging to Britain and Russia like dear life, and hoping it is enough (almost surely it isn't). As it concerns colonial issues, chances are France loses almost all of its empire. Spain takes Morocco and quite possibly out-competes France in West Africa with the support of its allies. Germany takes Algeria (since Morocco is not an option) and Mittelafrika. Italy gets Tunisia, Libya, the Horn of Africa, Kenya, and Uganda. Spanish ownership of the Philippines is a good justification and strategic springboard for Germany and Italy to seize Indochina and Siam. Liberal reforms and development in Spain almost surely spread to the Philippines and may well be a good reason to tone down Filipino discontent and prevent the 1896 insurrection. This deprives Japan and America of a suitable pretext for intervention. Moreover, the combined naval power of the seafaring CP is in all likelihood enough to deter the Japanese and the Americans from doing anything funny, esp. in a colonial war scenario. By 1900 Germany is a candidate superpower, Italy a first-class great power, Spain a junior great power. Admittedly, the USNA is even more of a candidate superpower (leaving the British Empire in the dust by now) and surely has the means to challenge the CP in the Pacific. However, in all likelihood they realize there are better and easier gains to be reaped by expanding in South America. After all, if Mexico, the Greater Antilles, and Central America can be gainfully made a part of the American experiment, why not Colombia, Venezuela, and Peru too? And for that matter there are going to be many South Americans that look to the multicultural USNA, the good lot of its Hispanic citizens, and decide voting for US statehood or at least a Pan-American EU may be a good solution to their problems. Pan-Americanism may easily become as big a thing ITTL as European integration. For that matter, Japan-led East Asian integration may well become just as successful, when the European hold on Southeast Asia inevitably declines. China, well, is... complicated. Of course, things may well turn different about Southeast Asia in a WWI equivalent, but they are not so simple. First, for a general war to occur, it requires the CP starting it b/c they wish to get rid of the France-shaped hole in their bloc and they fancy adding Ukraine to the fold. Alternatively, it takes the Entente getting as suicidally overconfident as Hitler, Tojo, Saddam, or Milosevic. Short of Britain or Russia deploying millions of soldiers in France from day 1, there is no way France can survive more than a few weeks or months fighting three industrialized great powers on all sides. Admittedly, once France is dealt with, the CP are busy defeating Britain and Russia, and the bulk of their naval power is tied down dealing with the RN, Japan may make a move to seize Southeast Asia. The European conflict may be long and exhausting enough, and perspective gains from robbing the Entente powers good enough, that the CP do not bother making a bid to recover their Asian colonies after victory in Europe. This may be a feasible way for Japan to act as a liberator and build up the GEACPS. However, it may well look easier and more profitable for Japan and/or America to join the anti-Entente pileup. Tokyo might gain the Transbaikal and eastern Siberia, and America might make a bid for the big prize of Australia. I don't see any good reason why TTL 1900-1920 Japan would not be able to project power in the PI, or the rest of Southeast Asia for that matter, just as effectively as their 1941 self, barring necessary technological differences. The schedule of their rise to great power has been accelerated. They modernized about a decade earlier, and defeated China and Russia, seizing Korea and Greater Manchuria, well before the end of the 19th century. They took Formosa and Hainan at the same time, acquiring an excellent strategic and logistic springboard for the PI.
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eurofed
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Post by eurofed on Dec 7, 2020 0:42:36 GMT
You might need a different PoD for the US to even absorb all of North America in this case, though your typical classical "US Wins War of 1812" comes to mind. However, absorbing Mexico might be a bridge too far due to the historical anti-Catholic sentiment there (even when the US would later open its doors to Catholic immigration from Italy and Ireland in this case, as well as parts of Germany that remained Catholic). Yes, I do apologize for the whole "Imperial Germany as proto-Nazis" thing, though I forgot that other nations had practiced the whole 'exterminate the natives' thing, especially the Russians with regards to the Circassians and the Americans towards the indigenous populations there. What I could predict with a German colonial administration in the Philippines might be a German equivalent of the Thomasites coming into the Philippines and reforming Philippine education there. I also think that you might also have some limited amount of industrialization happening there, as well as Prussian style of behavior (military service leading to civil service and German behavioral values like efficiency and punctuality). I shudder to think what a German-trained Philippine colonial troops might be like in battle. Well, a suitable event sequence for the USNA may vary, but I have a few ideas. By the way, I wrote one with a description of ATL changes in this scenario, in the OP. It is not my fault (and a source of some considerable frustration) if people do not bother to read it and jump in the discussion after taking a glance at the title and assuming the topic is about a 1898 PoD. Perhaps I should have picked a different one, such as "The Philippines if the USA already owned all of North America". For various reasons, IMO it is best if it starts with settled Canada joining the Patriots in the ARW. Political variables make the British colonial administration of Quebec and Nova Scotia oppressive, and the Quebec Act as bad for them as the other Intolerable Acts were for the 13 colonies, driving them to rebel and send delegates to the Continental Congress. Newborn America takes Middle Canada and the Maritimes in the peace settlement. For simplicity, let's assume PEI stays British or a part of NS (too unbalancing to US federalism otherwise), and Acadia/New Brunswick later separates to become a state like Vermont and Maine. The Canadiens find their comfy place in the American system with a few harmless guarantees in the US Constitution about their religion and language. Their partecipation in the American Revolution makes anti-Catholicism unpatriotic and politically taboo, and it builds a powerful precedent for inclusion of more Catholics and Romance-speakers in the American experiment. For even more inclusiveness, the leaders of the Iroquois Confederation have a leap of insight and ally with the Patriots. This makes American society tolerant and willing to integrate friendly 'civilized' Natives that do not oppose US expansion and embrace the American way of life. It creates a path to assimilation that the Five Civilized Tribes, other siimilar groups, and the Europeanized natives of Mexico and Central America are later able to follow. Of course, Native tribes that resist US expansion and cling to their traditional lifestyle are crushed as brutally as usual. Political variables keep the Federalists dominant or at least politically influential longer, and the policies they favor accelerate infrastructure development, Western settlement, industrialization, and US military build-up. The War of 1812 may or may not occur, but if it does it turns out better for the US thanks to more favorable strategic circumstances and it just makes the British even more persuaded that North America is a lost cause for them. Even if it does not occur, relentless American expansion combined with British inability to settle or defend Western Canada properly due to lack of access to the Great Lakes route makes Britain come to the same conclusion. The British accept to sell Rupert's Land and cede their claims on the Pacific Northwest to the USA. When the Latin American Wars of Independence occur, sympathy for the rebels and border conflicts with Spain drive the Americans to intervene. Spain is at its lowest ebb, and the US military is well prepared, so the Americans win and seize Cuba, St. Domingo, and Puerto Rico. They force the Spanish to concede independence to New Spain and Gran Colombia. US support for their cause builds a sizable amount of goodwill among Creole revolutionaries. This may reasonably become justification for the likes of Simon Bolivar to seek union with the USA then and there, but let's keep a more gradual pace. Political butterflies related to the greater amount of free states ensure the Upper South states never adopt slavery in the first place, or eventually decide to abolish it on their own initiative. The remaining slave states increasingly feel cornered, and for a while believe the solution (not for parity, that ship sailed long ago, but to stay a relevant minority) is more territorial expansion. Pro-US settlers in the northern territories of Mexico secede with the breakaway republics of Texas, Rio Grande, and California. American support to them and conflicting territorial claims cause the Mexican-American War. The Americans surely take the breakaway states, the Southwest, and Northern Mexico. A good case could be made for taking all of Mexico then and there. The Canada, Greater Antilles, and 'civilized' Natives precedents suggest the Americans there is little to fear and much to gain from doing so. On the Mexicans' part, they can see the Catholic and Romance-speaking sections have been enjoying prosperity, liberty, and stability under US rule; this makes an eloquent contrast with the poor record of independent Mexico. Moreover, despite the recent bad blood, there is lingering pro-US goodwill from the Wars of Independence. Even if the USA leave Central-Southern Mexico be for the moment, something bad happens to it a generation later. Say a civil war, or the usual French invasion. The Americans intervene and restore peace, or kick the invaders out. In the aftermath, the Yankees and the Mexicans reassess the situation, and agree union is the best solution. The slavery issue gets settled in one of two ways. a) the slave states realize the days of slavery are numbered, since the freesoilers and the antislavery Mexicans successfully resist its expansion in the West. With more and more free states further tilting the political balance, the Congress and the courts are turning out more and more antislavery legislation and rulings. The day is coming when abolition by constitutional amendment becomes feasible. The dominant free section is increasingly eager to get America rid of this moral blight and socio-economic burden. The balance between the free and slave states is so skewed in population, economic, and military terms that secession would be crushed in a few months. The slave states reluctantly accept gradual emancipation in exchange for population transfer of the freedmen to West Africa. The federal government and the free states accept the bargain, since even most abolitionists do not want to integrate the freedmen if they can avoid it. b) the slave states assume the secession strategy may work despite otherwise very bad odds thanks to foreign support. Britain and France agree to help to cut down the US giant one notch and expand their influence in the Americas. They start the ACW, and the Anglo-French intervene to support the Confederates. The Union has a Pearl Harbor/9-11 moment, stages all-out mobilization, and crushes the slaveocrat traitors and their foreign puppetmasters. Their unholy compact to destroy America causes the Unionists to demonize and suppress slavery and all its works, including segregation by extension. This paves the way to integration of the freedmen in American society. Assimilation of Central America may take place in various ways: 1) filibuster takeover, the swan song of slaveocrat expansionism (successful William Walker) 2) peace-enforcing US intervention, followed by annexation (the Banana Wars done right) 3) the Central Americans can see the writing on the wall, and ask to join the Union (the 1870 annexation attempt of St. Domingo done right) 4) the Americans want to build the Nicaragua and the Panama canals, decide direct ownership is the only acceptable means, and negotiate the annexation of southern Central America in exchange for economic benefits; in the case of Panama, if Colombia does not want to sell, they just do what they did IOTL. This leaves Haiti, NFL, and the British West Indies. The former is such a terrible mess that I'd prefer to ignore it, and I suspect this would be the attitude of the American public. A possible alternative is the Americans get disgusted of having such a hellhole in their backyard, send in the army, and engage in an extensive and sustained effort to rebuild the place from the ground. As it concerns NFL and the BWI, the obvious solution is America taking the side of the CP in the WWI equivalent. Not worth the effort if NFL and the BWI were the main issue and prize. However, the Americans may get pissed off at British blockade of their trade to Europe and decide to do War of 1812 2.0. Alternatively, or in addition, they may well decide after they are done with North America, Australasia would be a good next step and excellent prize, and engage to reunite most of the Anglosphere under the Stars and Stripes. Take into account TTL America quite possibly fought the French and/or the Entente powers in Mexico and during the ACW, so they have less reason to be pro-Entente. Moreover, being much more multi-cultural, Anglophilia is going to be considerably toned down. Never mind about the 'colonial atrocities' issue. It is just the 'Germans are eternal Nazis' meme (and the 'Only Europeans/Whites/Westerners did bad things' one) especially annoy me for various reasons. I agree with your broad assessment of German colonial policy. For German Congo at least, I am confident the change is going to be a genuine improvement.
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kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on Dec 7, 2020 3:17:41 GMT
Only Luzon would have been independent in a timeline where he lives, but I think the only thing that would have butterflied the war with America would be selling Luzon to Britain in the Madrid treaty and not giving up Northern Borneo. The question is what would become of the islands of Palawan, Romblon, and Masbate (all geographically part of Luzon) and the Visayas (Panay, Negros, Cebu, Bohol, Samar, Leyte, Siquijor, and Camiguin)? These islands aren't strong enough to be on their own since these do not offer much resources aside from a few farming, fishing, and lumber. My guess at some point either Luzon would start to expand or the Sultanate of Sulu in Mindanao would make them as outposts. Remember in the 1500s-1600s, Muslim pirates and bandits used to attack coastal settlements in the Visayas hence why there are forts and watchtowers by the coastline. Though these pirate attacks died down by the 1700s, I'm sure the Sultanate would want to have a foothold in the Visayas. I think in that scenario where Luzon ends up either under Britain either as a colony or a protectorate, Visayas and Mindanao would end up under the Spanish until recently and would end up having ties with the Latin American countries themselves.
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Dec 7, 2020 3:20:08 GMT
The question is what would become of the islands of Palawan, Romblon, and Masbate (all geographically part of Luzon) and the Visayas (Panay, Negros, Cebu, Bohol, Samar, Leyte, Siquijor, and Camiguin)? These islands aren't strong enough to be on their own since these do not offer much resources aside from a few farming, fishing, and lumber. My guess at some point either Luzon would start to expand or the Sultanate of Sulu in Mindanao would make them as outposts. Remember in the 1500s-1600s, Muslim pirates and bandits used to attack coastal settlements in the Visayas hence why there are forts and watchtowers by the coastline. Though these pirate attacks died down by the 1700s, I'm sure the Sultanate would want to have a foothold in the Visayas. I think in that scenario where Luzon ends up either under Britain either as a colony or a protectorate, Visayas and Mindanao would end up under the Spanish until recently and would end up having ties with the Latin American countries themselves. It would be interesting to see what a Visayan Republic would be like. The islands on their own aren't militarily or economically strong to be on their own so uniting the entire Visayas would make more sense. Mindanao however could fall under the entire Sultanate of Sulu.
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kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on Dec 7, 2020 3:31:20 GMT
I think in that scenario where Luzon ends up either under Britain either as a colony or a protectorate, Visayas and Mindanao would end up under the Spanish until recently and would end up having ties with the Latin American countries themselves. It would be interesting to see what a Visayan Republic would be like. The islands on their own aren't militarily or economically strong to be on their own so uniting the entire Visayas would make more sense. Mindanao however could fall under the entire Sultanate of Sulu. The Visayas under a longer Spanish rule would be interesting actually, I think the Spanish might take advantage of the Deuterium rich Mindanao.
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Dec 15, 2020 11:43:39 GMT
It would be interesting to see what a Visayan Republic would be like. The islands on their own aren't militarily or economically strong to be on their own so uniting the entire Visayas would make more sense. Mindanao however could fall under the entire Sultanate of Sulu. The Visayas under a longer Spanish rule would be interesting actually, I think the Spanish might take advantage of the Deuterium rich Mindanao. So you're saying Visayas remains a far-flung Spanish colony (just like Hong Kong and Macau) while it shares maritime borders with Luzon and the Sultanate of Sulu?
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kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on Dec 18, 2020 4:09:11 GMT
The Visayas under a longer Spanish rule would be interesting actually, I think the Spanish might take advantage of the Deuterium rich Mindanao. So you're saying Visayas remains a far-flung Spanish colony (just like Hong Kong and Macau) while it shares maritime borders with Luzon and the Sultanate of Sulu? Yes, it can.
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