James G
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Post by James G on Nov 24, 2020 7:27:39 GMT
What kind of tanks would we have seen fielded if the Soviet Union had survived?
What would they have ready to go west / defend against fascist invaders?
And NATO too?
I'm thinking a T-95 with the GSFG. Maybe a 140mm armed Leopard 3 for the Germans. For the US Army a whole new different tank, maybe something very new for the UK too?
Ideas?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 24, 2020 15:12:30 GMT
What kind of tanks would we have seen fielded if the Soviet Union had survived? What would they have ready to go west / defend against fascist invaders? And NATO too? I'm thinking a T-95 with the GSFG. Maybe a 140mm armed Leopard 3 for the Germans. For the US Army a whole new different tank, maybe something very new for the UK too? Ideas? I always wonder, how this beast, the T-95 Black Eagle would handle in a Cold War still going on.  Main features of the T-95 |
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James G
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Post by James G on Nov 24, 2020 17:19:31 GMT
There was a design for an ATGM launcher I recall seeing many long years ago. It was German I think, based on a tracked vehicle. The twin-launcher, maybe quad-launcher, was inside the vehicle during travel. In a hidden launch position, a scissor type system would raise the launcher really high: maybe there or four times as high as the vehicle to allow for shooting from a truly hidden position.
I have been looking last night but cannot recall exactly what it was called. It was a late 80s design to be fielded in the 90s.
Anyone know what I am on about?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 24, 2020 19:14:22 GMT
There was a design for an ATGM launcher I recall seeing many long years ago. It was German I think, based on a tracked vehicle. The twin-launcher, maybe quad-launcher, was inside the vehicle during travel. In a hidden launch position, a scissor type system would raise the launcher really high: maybe there or four times as high as the vehicle to allow for shooting from a truly hidden position. I have been looking last night but cannot recall exactly what it was called. It was a late 80s design to be fielded in the 90s. Anyone know what I am on about? Only vehicle that i can think of is the Jaguar 2 |
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Post by La Rouge Beret on Nov 25, 2020 1:58:09 GMT
For me the communication suite would be upgraded to handle UAV feeds and the integrated sharing of data between the other MBTs or detached vehicles within the Squadron. The MBT / AFV silhouettes would remain low and there might be a greater push for an unmanned turret with the crew protected within the hull. Possibly the addition of passive and active ATGM defences to the hull.
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on Nov 25, 2020 17:50:01 GMT
There was a design for an ATGM launcher I recall seeing many long years ago. It was German I think, based on a tracked vehicle. The twin-launcher, maybe quad-launcher, was inside the vehicle during travel. In a hidden launch position, a scissor type system would raise the launcher really high: maybe there or four times as high as the vehicle to allow for shooting from a truly hidden position. I have been looking last night but cannot recall exactly what it was called. It was a late 80s design to be fielded in the 90s. Anyone know what I am on about? Only vehicle that i can think of is the Jaguar 2It's not a Jaguar but was to be a replacement, IIRC. For me the communication suite would be upgraded to handle UAV feeds and the integrated sharing of data between the other MBTs or detached vehicles within the Squadron. The MBT / AFV silhouettes would remain low and there might be a greater push for an unmanned turret with the crew protected within the hull. Possibly the addition of passive and active ATGM defences to the hull. That sounds about right. The whole idea was concealment so firing could be done from a hidden position with the launcher raised high. Now though there are top-attack munitions - Swedish BILL? - and there would be no need for this system I am thinking of. I am sure it was a West German design. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 25, 2020 17:59:40 GMT
Only vehicle that i can think of is the Jaguar 2It's not a Jaguar but was to be a replacement, IIRC. For me the communication suite would be upgraded to handle UAV feeds and the integrated sharing of data between the other MBTs or detached vehicles within the Squadron. The MBT / AFV silhouettes would remain low and there might be a greater push for an unmanned turret with the crew protected within the hull. Possibly the addition of passive and active ATGM defences to the hull. That sounds about right. The whole idea was concealment so firing could be done from a hidden position with the launcher raised high. Now though there are top-attack munitions - Swedish BILL? - and there would be no need for this system I am thinking of. I am sure it was a West German design. Think i found it, here on this page German atgm vehicles, then go to the name Panther and you get this: This is a tank destroyer based on the hull of the Leopard 1 chassis. They were converted by removing the turret and fitting an elevating arm with a 3-round pod firing Trigat ATGM. The arm can be raised to a height of 5 meters and contains all the sensors needed to target and guide the missiles. The sight is downlinked to a gunner's position in the hull, which guides the missiles via a TV monitor. There is a hatch on the center front deck for the driver, one on the right deck behind the driver for the commander, and a large hatch behind the elevating arm for reloading of missiles. This program was cancelled in the early 1990s after only one prototype was built. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Nov 25, 2020 18:14:35 GMT
It's not a Jaguar but was to be a replacement, IIRC. That sounds about right. The whole idea was concealment so firing could be done from a hidden position with the launcher raised high. Now though there are top-attack munitions - Swedish BILL? - and there would be no need for this system I am thinking of. I am sure it was a West German design. Think i found it, here on this page German atgm vehicles, then go to the name Panther and you get this: This is a tank destroyer based on the hull of the Leopard 1 chassis. They were converted by removing the turret and fitting an elevating arm with a 3-round pod firing Trigat ATGM. The arm can be raised to a height of 5 meters and contains all the sensors needed to target and guide the missiles. The sight is downlinked to a gunner's position in the hull, which guides the missiles via a TV monitor. There is a hatch on the center front deck for the driver, one on the right deck behind the driver for the commander, and a large hatch behind the elevating arm for reloading of missiles. This program was cancelled in the early 1990s after only one prototype was built.That's the one! Mystery solved. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 25, 2020 18:15:13 GMT
Think i found it, here on this page German atgm vehicles, then go to the name Panther and you get this: This is a tank destroyer based on the hull of the Leopard 1 chassis. They were converted by removing the turret and fitting an elevating arm with a 3-round pod firing Trigat ATGM. The arm can be raised to a height of 5 meters and contains all the sensors needed to target and guide the missiles. The sight is downlinked to a gunner's position in the hull, which guides the missiles via a TV monitor. There is a hatch on the center front deck for the driver, one on the right deck behind the driver for the commander, and a large hatch behind the elevating arm for reloading of missiles. This program was cancelled in the early 1990s after only one prototype was built.That's the one! Mystery solved. I knew that site would come handy some day. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Nov 25, 2020 19:18:44 GMT
That's the one! Mystery solved. I knew that site would come handy some day. There is another Twilight 2000 site - sites.google.com/site/chico20854/ - which has many ORBATs that I have used before. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 25, 2020 19:22:07 GMT
I know, the author of those websites is a member i think of this forum: RPG Forums |
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Post by La Rouge Beret on Nov 26, 2020 0:15:15 GMT
I'll have to get Claymore to post here too from Alternate History. The man is a treasure trove information about AFVs.
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1bigrich
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Post by 1bigrich on Nov 26, 2020 18:15:58 GMT
What kind of tanks would we have seen fielded if the Soviet Union had survived? What would they have ready to go west / defend against fascist invaders? And NATO too? I'm thinking a T-95 with the GSFG. Maybe a 140mm armed Leopard 3 for the Germans. For the US Army a whole new different tank, maybe something very new for the UK too? Ideas?
Hi James,
I think on the US side, you would have seen the M8 Armored Gun System developed and deployed as a light tank instead of the historic wheeled options that have been adopted.
II think continental war-fighting would still be a priority for the US Army, and Crusader would have replaced Paladin as a self-propelled aritllery piece. What that has to do with tanks is that I think you would have an M!A4 Abrams. The Crusader's GE/Honeywell LV100-5 was supposed to be retrofitted to the M1, and was more fuel efficient than the historic engine fitted.
I think the M1 would still be the backbone of US armor, but a new tank would be in development or would be entering service now.
My thoughts,
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 26, 2020 18:17:54 GMT
I'll have to get Claymore to post here too from Alternate History. The man is a treasure trove information about AFVs. Is that the same Claymore of the Alternative History Armoured Fighting Vehicles thread fame. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Nov 26, 2020 18:24:54 GMT
What kind of tanks would we have seen fielded if the Soviet Union had survived? What would they have ready to go west / defend against fascist invaders? And NATO too? I'm thinking a T-95 with the GSFG. Maybe a 140mm armed Leopard 3 for the Germans. For the US Army a whole new different tank, maybe something very new for the UK too? Ideas?
Hi James,
I think on the US side, you would have seen the M8 Armored Gun System developed and deployed as a light tank instead of the historic wheeled options that have been adopted.
II think continental war-fighting would still be a priority for the US Army, and Crusader would have replaced Paladin as a self-propelled aritllery piece. What that has to do with tanks is that I think you would have an M!A4 Abrams. The Crusader's GE/Honeywell LV100-5 was supposed to be retrofitted to the M1, and was more fuel efficient than the historic engine fitted.
I think the M1 would still be the backbone of US armor, but a new tank would be in development or would be entering service now.
My thoughts,
I'd forgotten about the M8. It was used in several fictional works but never made it. And the Crusader too. |
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