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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Nov 28, 2020 23:29:27 GMT
Prussian/Preussenic
Language Family: Indo-European
Sub-type: North Germanic
Dialect: East Scandinavian (with influence from various Baltic languages)
Language: Prussian
History: A different Viking expedition to the Baltic occurs when Askold and Dir returned from Scandinavia after recruiting several warriors for a new Eastern expedition. After landing in a fishing village the Old Prussians called Tvangste, the Swedish Vikings captured the town and kept its name while launching constant raids on Old Prussian settlements throughout the Prussian region. Though the expedition to conquer most of the Baltic region encountered several difficulties, the Swedish Vikings managed to retain control of Tvangste, later renaming it Ekslaktetsgard after seeing several oak trees within the city's borders. Ekslaktetsgard would eventually emerge as a commercial port that controlled the trade between Scandinavia and Kievan Rus, bypassing Holmsgard/Novgorod altogether, contributing to its decline in favor of Ekslaktetsgard. The Baltic Prussians were eventually Nordicized to the point where they spoke the Swedish (then called Svealandic dialect) language with some Baltic Prussian words inserted to it.
The Preussenic language is a Nordic language spoken by the Preussenish population of what is now Preussenmark. Initially written in Norse runes before Christian monks, mainly from Kievan Rus' and the Byzantine Empire, would evangelize to the Preussenic population, eventually accepting Eastern Orthodoxy over Western Catholicism, though Crimean Gothic monks living in Tauridia (Crimea) were also invited to help standardize the Preussenic language with the use of the Crimean Gothic alphabet.
(Basically what if the Vikings had conquered the region of what is then OTL East Prussia and turned it into a Nordic state in a similar method to how the Oghuz Turkic tribes had turned the region of Atropatene into the Oghuz Turkic Azerbaijan)
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 29, 2020 16:01:47 GMT
Prussian/PreussenicLanguage Family: Indo-European Sub-type: North Germanic Dialect: East Scandinavian (with influence from various Baltic languages) Language: Prussian History: A different Viking expedition to the Baltic occurs when Askold and Dir returned from Scandinavia after recruiting several warriors for a new Eastern expedition. After landing in a fishing village the Old Prussians called Tvangste, the Swedish Vikings captured the town and kept its name while launching constant raids on Old Prussian settlements throughout the Prussian region. Though the expedition to conquer most of the Baltic region encountered several difficulties, the Swedish Vikings managed to retain control of Tvangste, later renaming it Ekslaktetsgard after seeing several oak trees within the city's borders. Ekslaktetsgard would eventually emerge as a commercial port that controlled the trade between Scandinavia and Kievan Rus, bypassing Holmsgard/Novgorod altogether, contributing to its decline in favor of Ekslaktetsgard. The Baltic Prussians were eventually Nordicized to the point where they spoke the Swedish (then called Svealandic dialect) language with some Baltic Prussian words inserted to it. The Preussenic language is a Nordic language spoken by the Preussenish population of what is now Preussenmark. Initially written in Norse runes before Christian monks, mainly from Kievan Rus' and the Byzantine Empire, would evangelize to the Preussenic population, eventually accepting Eastern Orthodoxy over Western Catholicism, though Crimean Gothic monks living in Tauridia (Crimea) were also invited to help standardize the Preussenic language with the use of the Crimean Gothic alphabet. (Basically what if the Vikings had conquered the region of what is then OTL East Prussia and turned it into a Nordic state in a similar method to how the Oghuz Turkic tribes had turned the region of Atropatene into the Oghuz Turkic Azerbaijan)
Interesting idea but does the region have the necessary river access to link to the Dnieper and the Black Sea so it can supplant Novgorod as the primary trading route? If it did then its going to be at the centre of conflict between Swedes, Danes, Germans and Poles, possibly among others for control of the area. Also if it went Orthodox early enough apart from possible problems after the scism with Rome it could affect Swedish Christianity as at the least there's likely to be an Orthodox presence there and if Sweden became Otherdox that would have huge butterflies in Scandinavian history as well as wider afield.
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Nov 29, 2020 21:58:32 GMT
The region of what was then Prussia had several rivers, though one starts at OTL Kaliningrad: the Pregel/Pregolya River. The area around Castle Insterburg is where the Pregolya diverges into the Instruch and Angrapa Rivers. However, the Angrapa actually starts in the area around OTL Poland, and the Sesupe River diverges from the Neman River in what is now Lithuania. Alternatively, the Neman River might be a good riverway into the western areas of Kievan Rus, around the area of western Belarus. Perhaps I underestimated the geography between the rivers of the Prussian region and the Dnieper, although wouldn't the Vikings also use land routes to facilitate their trade as well? I should have said that it wouldn't really surpass Novgorod as the main trading center between Scandinavia and the Black Sea region.
Tilsit would actually be another good city where the Vikings would establish their trading center in the Eastern Baltic, as well as the area around Klaipeda since the latter is on the coast, and the Vikings can enter the Neman River. One might also think that the Vistula and Pripyat Rivers might also make a good river connection to the Dnieper, and then the city of Kiev. Actually in this case the Swedish Vikings who control the Prussia region might also extend their control to the Vistula River as well.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 29, 2020 22:08:27 GMT
The region of what was then Prussia had several rivers, though one starts at OTL Kaliningrad: the Pregel/Pregolya River. The area around Castle Insterburg is where the Pregolya diverges into the Instruch and Angrapa Rivers. However, the Angrapa actually starts in the area around OTL Poland, and the Sesupe River diverges from the Neman River in what is now Lithuania. Alternatively, the Neman River might be a good riverway into the western areas of Kievan Rus, around the area of western Belarus. Perhaps I underestimated the geography between the rivers of the Prussian region and the Dnieper, although wouldn't the Vikings also use land routes to facilitate their trade as well? I should have said that it wouldn't really surpass Novgorod as the main trading center between Scandinavia and the Black Sea region. Tilsit would actually be another good city where the Vikings would establish their trading center in the Eastern Baltic, as well as the area around Klaipeda since the latter is on the coast, and the Vikings can enter the Neman River. One might also think that the Vistula and Pripyat Rivers might also make a good river connection to the Dnieper, and then the city of Kiev. Actually in this case the Swedish Vikings who control the Prussia region might also extend their control to the Vistula River as well.
OK there might well be options there I hadn't realised. The trade did depend very heavily on the rivers as that's a hell lot more efficient and probably also safer in many cases than trying to haul bulk materials especially by land with no real roads and a lot of forests and swamps.
Steve
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Nov 29, 2020 22:56:59 GMT
There might also be a part where the Vikings actually dragged their boats over the land, though it involves some oil and lumber used as wheels.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 30, 2020 15:52:24 GMT
There might also be a part where the Vikings actually dragged their boats over the land, though it involves some oil and lumber used as wheels.
Yes there were portages, especially between the Dvina and Dnieper IIRC and at some points on the Dnieper were rapids or other problems forced the travelers to leave the river for a short while but they were generally very short distances simply because of the work involved in this.
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jjohnson
Chief petty officer
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Post by jjohnson on May 6, 2021 17:02:12 GMT
Language Family: Indo-European
Type: Germanic
Sub-type: West Germanic
Dialect: Anglo-Saxon
History: The island language mixture of the Angles, Saxons, Frisians, and Jutes evolved much more slowly, from 460 AD to the present, much like the continental Upper German language did. By about 1200 or so, it had transitioned into Middle Englisch, with a weakening of ending syllables to a schwa-sound (written 'e') but a strong preservation of the 4-case, 3-gender adjective and noun systems, though this was not always represented in the writing; continued trade and immigration from continental Germans strengthened declensions and the use of umlaut spread to new words and conjugations. By about 1600, with the advent of the 'Kyning James Bibel' and Schakespear's plays, early modern Englisch had solidified. Special letters remained in this version of English, including þ, ð, ȝ, æ, œ, and ƕ, which was added to the alphabet in the 1500s on the discovery of Gothic speakers in Crimea, with ƕ representing 'wh' in words, alphabetized after 'h' (pronounced like Stewie says "hwill hweaton").
Alphabet: a æ b c d ð e f g ȝ h ƕ i j k l m n o œ p q r s t þ u v w x y z
a like father; æ like mat (short), ai in air when long
c like church; k like cat
g like go; ȝ like young (except in cases like friȝnen, fraȝn, fruȝnon, where the ȝ becomes an ach-laut in the past and past participle)
r trilled like Scottish
þ like think; ð like that; these can alternate depending on intended pronunciation, but þ is typically initial or final, while ð comes between syllables.
z like ts in cats
ea is like 'ai' in air
ei like 'ice'
ie like 'feet'
Grammar:
faren - to travel, go by vehicle
Present Indicative:
ich fare
þu færst
he, schie, it færþ
wiȝ, ȝiȝ, þeiȝ fareþ
Present Subjunctive: ich/he fare, þu farest; wiȝ/ȝiȝ/þeiȝ faren
Past Indicative: ich/he for, þu forst, wiȝ/ȝiȝ/þeiȝ foren
Past Subjunctive: ich/he fœre, þu fœrest, wiȝ/ȝiȝ/þeiȝ fœren
Nouns:
Masculine: Staan, Staanes, Staan; Staane, Staanen, Staane
Feminine: Frowe, Frowen
Neuter: Speld, Speldes, Speld; Spelder, Speldern, Spelder; Lamb, Lambes, Lamb; Læmber, Læmbern, Læmber
Adjectives:
Masculine: ald, aldes, aldem, alden
Feminine: alde, alder, alder, alde
Neuter: ald, aldes, aldem, ald
Plural: alde, alder, alden, alde
After "þe"
Masculine: alde, alden, alden, alden
Feminine: alde, alden, alden, alde
Neuter: alde, alden, alden, alde
Plural: alden, alden, alden, alden
Definite Article:
þe, þes, þem, þen
þie, þer, þer, þie
þat, þes, þem, þat
þie, þer, þen, þie
Question Words: ƕa, ƕat, ƕær, ƕenn, hu, ƕy; also ƕider, ƕannen
Translation: who, what, where, when, how, why; also whither, whence
Numbers: 35 is "feifandþrittiȝ" as in German. Hundreds are "twa hundred" but with additional numbers, it becomes "twahundsixtiȝ". Elefentiȝ and Twelftiȝ (110, 120) are still used over hundtien and hundtwentiȝ.
Example: hu lange abeideþ wiȝ in usern Autos, um uttofinden, if wiȝ ingaan kunneþ? Sind þeiȝ gefremmd? Ich þarf meigen!
Translation: how long do we have to wait in our cars to find out if we can go in? Are they finished? I have to pee!
Example: Mein Cirkelwyrde brykþ mar RAM. Ich kann noht mar þonn feif Programme instæpes opnen. Hu fele spendeþ man for 16GB?
Translation: My computer needs more RAM. I can't open more than 5 programs at once. How much does one spend for 16GB?
Example: ƕider gæst þu? Wiȝ habeþ ane feiftien Minuten ærþem wiȝ faren þurfeþ! Mortal Kombat pleȝþ in þem Kino æt 3:35!
Translation: Where are you going? We have only 15 minutes before we need to leave! Mortal Kombat is playing in the movie theater at 3:35!
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on May 7, 2021 2:01:21 GMT
Would a surviving Anglo-Saxon England still have a King James at this point? I would have guessed that the Anglo-Saxons would have different names for their kings. For instance, we could have seen a Kyning Alfred Bibel instead of a Kyning James Bibel.
Kasiguranese/Kasiguranin
Language Family: Austronesian
Type: Malayo-Polynesian
Sub-type: Central Luzon/Northern Luzon
Dialect: Tagalog, with bits of Ilocano
History: The rise of Kasiguranin as a separate language lay with the exodus of the refugees from the Kingdoms of Maynila and Namayan, who brought their Tagalog dialects with them. Having settled in the eastern part of Northern Luzon, around the city of Kasiguran. Kasiguran gradually evolved as a city state, strong enough to resist other would-be invaders, as well as emerging as a viable trading port. Kasiguran also evolved into a small principality, strong enough to resist the incoming Spanish colonization attempts, but it too, eventually fell. However, the Spaniards were impressed by the sheer tenacity of the Kasiguranese people's resistance, that they eventually turned the Principality of Kasiguran into a Spanish vassal state. The Spaniards would eventually use the Kasiguranese to help subjugate the other lands around the Cagayan Valley region, resulting in their acceptance of the King of Spain as their nominal overlord.
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kasumigenx
Lieutenant Commander
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Post by kasumigenx on May 7, 2021 18:06:44 GMT
Tagarug(Selurongese/Saludongese)
Language Family: Austronesian
Type: Malayo Polynesian
Subtype: Northern Luzon
On a certain date in the late 1400s and the beginning of the 1500s, the Bruneians led by Nakhoda Ragam Bolkiah, Sultan of Brunei would be defeated in their attempt to sack Tondo and Tondo would continue to be the hub of trade of China with the Malay Archipelago, the Pasig Channel or Pasig River.
The Island of Saludong was later united but later it would shift capitals, the Kingdom is called as Selurong or Tagarug Kingdom and its common language is called as Tagarug.
The Spanish would seize the Visayan speaking areas south of Pasig River, ITTL, the term visayan means Central Philippine.
Sample words
I(I, Mine) – Nak/Saya
Mine –(insert item)-k(ku) ex kitabku/Libruk(My books)
We(Ours)(Inclusive)-Ikatam (tam),(tara(persuasive))
Our(Inclusive)– (insert item)-tam ex. kitabtam(Our Books)
We/Ours(Exclusive)-Ikami (kami)
Our(Exclusive) – (insert item)-mi ex. kitabmi(Our Books)
You(rs)(Singular) – Ikamu (kamu)
Yours(Singular) –(insert item)-mu ex kitabmu/Librum(Your books)
You(rs)(Plural) – Ikayu (kayu)
Yours(Plural) –(insert item)-nu ex kitabnu/Librun(Your books)
Eat – Mangan(Kan)
Na/Tu - Of
Sa - In
Love – Idug (-Irug-)
To write - Magsurat
Big Thanks – Dakal nga Salamat
I love You - Idug(an) Taka
Is – Nga
Sibling - Wari
Road - Dalan (Jalan)
House - Balay(-Bale-)
Here - Sitau
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on May 8, 2021 16:15:37 GMT
Tagarug(Selurongese/Saludongese)Language Family: Austronesian Type: Malayo Polynesian Subtype: Northern Luzon On a certain date in the late 1400s and the beginning of the 1500s, the Bruneians led by Nakhoda Ragam Bolkiah, Sultan of Brunei would be defeated in their attempt to sack Tondo and Tondo would continue to be the hub of trade of China with the Malay Archipelago, the Pasig Channel or Pasig River. The Island of Saludong was later united but later it would shift capitals, the Kingdom is called as Selurong or Tagarug Kingdom and its common language is called as Tagarug. The Spanish would seize the Visayan speaking areas south of Pasig River, ITTL, the term visayan means Central Philippine. Sample words I(I, Mine) – Nak/Saya Mine –(insert item)-k(ku) ex kitabku/Libruk(My books) We(Ours)(Inclusive)-Ikatam (tam),(tara(persuasive)) Our(Inclusive)– (insert item)-tam ex. kitabtam(Our Books) We/Ours(Exclusive)-Ikami (kami) Our(Exclusive) – (insert item)-mi ex. kitabmi(Our Books) You(rs)(Singular) – Ikamu (kamu) Yours(Singular) –(insert item)-mu ex kitabmu/Librum(Your books) You(rs)(Plural) – Ikayu (kayu) Yours(Plural) –(insert item)-nu ex kitabnu/Librun(Your books) Eat – Mangan(Kan) Na/Tu - Of Sa - In Love – Idug (-Irug-) To write - Magsurat Big Thanks – Dakal nga Salamat I love You - Idug(an) Taka Is – Nga Sibling - Wari Road - Dalan (Jalan) House - Balay(-Bale-) Here - Sitau I could see Tagarug coexisting well with Kasiguranese in this alternate scenario. Tagarug being the hybrid version of Tagalog and Kapampangan, and Kasiguranese being a hybrid version of Tagalog and Ilocano. Alternatively, Kasiguranese could be an offshoot of Tagarug. |
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kasumigenx
Lieutenant Commander
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Post by kasumigenx on May 8, 2021 18:21:17 GMT
Tagarug(Selurongese/Saludongese)Language Family: Austronesian Type: Malayo Polynesian Subtype: Northern Luzon On a certain date in the late 1400s and the beginning of the 1500s, the Bruneians led by Nakhoda Ragam Bolkiah, Sultan of Brunei would be defeated in their attempt to sack Tondo and Tondo would continue to be the hub of trade of China with the Malay Archipelago, the Pasig Channel or Pasig River. The Island of Saludong was later united but later it would shift capitals, the Kingdom is called as Selurong or Tagarug Kingdom and its common language is called as Tagarug. The Spanish would seize the Visayan speaking areas south of Pasig River, ITTL, the term visayan means Central Philippine. Sample words I(I, Mine) – Nak/Saya Mine –(insert item)-k(ku) ex kitabku/Libruk(My books) We(Ours)(Inclusive)-Ikatam (tam),(tara(persuasive)) Our(Inclusive)– (insert item)-tam ex. kitabtam(Our Books) We/Ours(Exclusive)-Ikami (kami) Our(Exclusive) – (insert item)-mi ex. kitabmi(Our Books) You(rs)(Singular) – Ikamu (kamu) Yours(Singular) –(insert item)-mu ex kitabmu/Librum(Your books) You(rs)(Plural) – Ikayu (kayu) Yours(Plural) –(insert item)-nu ex kitabnu/Librun(Your books) Eat – Mangan(Kan) Na/Tu - Of Sa - In Love – Idug (-Irug-) To write - Magsurat Big Thanks – Dakal nga Salamat I love You - Idug(an) Taka Is – Nga Sibling - Wari Road - Dalan (Jalan) House - Balay(-Bale-) Here - Sitau I could see Tagarug coexisting well with Kasiguranese in this alternate scenario. Tagarug being the hybrid version of Tagalog and Kapampangan, and Kasiguranese being a hybrid version of Tagalog and Ilocano. Alternatively, Kasiguranese could be an offshoot of Tagarug. In this timeline the people we call as Tagalog are considered as Visayans, Tagarugs are different from Tagalogs as Sinauna Tagarugs who are Northern Philippine speakers, here this identity is the identity of the Kingdom of Selurong. |
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Post by kyuzoaoi on May 10, 2021 16:25:59 GMT
Novegradian
Language Family: Indo-European
Type: Slavic (East or Northern)
Sub-type: Central Luzon/Northern Luzon
Dialect: Central, Eastern (Siberian), West (Baltic)
History: Here, the Novegradians won the Battle of Shelon against Muscovy. The Novegradians create their own empire and even attacked Sweden and the Baltics. In the timeline, the Novegradians are the ones that stopped Charles of Sweden and conquered Finland and Livonia. However, a rematch during the Napoleonic Wars saw Novegrad losing again Finland to Sweden and Livonia to Russia, never to be returned to them (Finland became a kingdom with the House of Hesse as monarch). By the 1850s, Novegrad was forced to unite with Russia. It will get brief independence in the November Revolution before the Soviets conquer them again, never to get it back until the Soviet Union fell.
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