gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Sept 29, 2020 14:57:29 GMT
What about US forces of 2002 who where abroad, where they also brought along to 1942. That said, what becomes of US forces abroad in 1942? They are where they are in 1942 so in this case the USA of 2002 can save the Philippines. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 29, 2020 15:01:54 GMT
What about US forces of 2002 who where abroad, where they also brought along to 1942. I need a recap of if they were brought. But it appears so... That helps a lot, are they brought back to the USA ore are will they appear in the current location in 1942, because in several locations that will be a little bit dangerous for them. |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Sept 29, 2020 17:29:21 GMT
I need a recap of if they were brought. But it appears so... That helps a lot, are they brought back to the USA ore are will they appear in the current location in 1942, because in several locations that will be a little bit dangerous for them. I think they will be in their current locations. So at this period in early 1942, the U.S. was still fighting the Japanese in the Philippines. It was one of their first major battles. Then those in Afghanistan, Germany, Spain, Italy, Japan, and elsewhere would be teleported back to the CONUS. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 30, 2020 14:55:23 GMT
I need a recap of if they were brought. But it appears so... That helps a lot, are they brought back to the USA ore are will they appear in the current location in 1942, because in several locations that will be a little bit dangerous for them.
Would definitely be 'interesting' for both sides if the US forces based in places like Germany, S Korea and Okinawa in 2002 were brought back in those locations. Suspect given the threats to them tactical nukes might be used to defeat any hostile downside forces threatening to overwhelm such bases.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 30, 2020 14:58:35 GMT
That helps a lot, are they brought back to the USA ore are will they appear in the current location in 1942, because in several locations that will be a little bit dangerous for them. Would definitely be 'interesting' for both sides if the US forces based in places like Germany, S Korea and Okinawa in 2002 were brought back in those locations. Suspect given the threats to them tactical nukes might be used to defeat any hostile downside forces threatening to overwhelm such bases.
But also give Germany,Italy and Japan of 1942 knowledge they should not poses, if they survive long enough. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 30, 2020 15:06:28 GMT
Would definitely be 'interesting' for both sides if the US forces based in places like Germany, S Korea and Okinawa in 2002 were brought back in those locations. Suspect given the threats to them tactical nukes might be used to defeat any hostile downside forces threatening to overwhelm such bases.
But also give Germany,Italy and Japan of 1942 knowledge they should not poses, if they survive long enough.
Possibly although I'm not sure if they would survive that long if it was thought either had gained for instance any nukes!  |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Oct 2, 2020 10:08:03 GMT
Here is the presence of US bases around the world in 2002.  |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 2, 2020 10:08:45 GMT
Here is the presence of US bases around the world in 2002. That is a lot of bases now back in Mainland USA. |
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Post by chinuaneustadt on Oct 3, 2020 0:50:49 GMT
There's probably going to be a lot of pain related to supply chains, telecommunications infrastructure, and space assets, but even so the US will be more than capable of beating back the Axis very quickly. The biggest issues will be social once the supply chain gets set straight, and I can imagine an army of policy wonks thinking they will do things right this time, and avoid the worst mistakes and blunders of US Foreign Policy during the Cold War.
I could see dissolution of the Soviet Union being a top priority, as well as the "saving" of China. Best to avoid a Cold War before it starts, even if it would be a joke to think the Soviet Union could pose any serious threat for several decades.
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kyng
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Post by kyng on Oct 3, 2020 17:12:12 GMT
Yeah, I can't see this war lasting very long at all. I think it could be ended with very little direct fighting: it shouldn't take the USA very long to find Hitler and the other Axis leaders, and knock them out with surgical missile strikes. We might even get World War III starting and finishing in similar fashion against the Soviets - although, this would probably depend on whether World War II goes according to plan. However, I suspect the rest of the world would catch up quite quickly in terms of technology: the USA would certainly share it all with their allies, and their enemies would be constantly spying on them to help create their own versions. (Anyway, here's another thought: there must be people who lived outside the USA in 1942, then moved to the USA at some point over the next 60 years, and were still living there in 2002. Does this world have two of those people - and will any of the 2002 incarnations ever go to visit their 1942 counterparts  ?) |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 4, 2020 10:16:26 GMT
Yeah, I can't see this war lasting very long at all. I think it could be ended with very little direct fighting: it shouldn't take the USA very long to find Hitler and the other Axis leaders, and knock them out with surgical missile strikes. We might even get World War III starting and finishing in similar fashion against the Soviets - although, this would probably depend on whether World War II goes according to plan. However, I suspect the rest of the world would catch up quite quickly in terms of technology: the USA would certainly share it all with their allies, and their enemies would be constantly spying on them to help create their own versions. (Anyway, here's another thought: there must be people who lived outside the USA in 1942, then moved to the USA at some point over the next 60 years, and were still living there in 2002. Does this world have two of those people - and will any of the 2002 incarnations ever go to visit their 1942 counterparts ?)
Definitely the fascists powers won't last long, although expect some problems getting Japan to surrender. Not sure there would be the political will to occupy the USSR and that could also be problematic in terms of trying to establish democracy, or simply a stable friendly government there.
On the last point there won't be a large number but definitely some 1942 people who are still alive and living in the US in 2002. Will including any surviving military personal from the US forces who aren't in the US when the ISOT occurs plus anyone who moved to the US after the war, which will include a lot of refugees from WWII and other conflicts among others. A lot of holocaust survivors might meet both their younger selves and also family members who survive this time around for instance and that will be a big occasion for them.
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Post by SpaceOrbisHistory on Jul 19, 2021 5:47:04 GMT
The USA as of March 13, 2002 is ISOT-ed to 1942. With the War on Terror currently in full swing, the United States finds itself in a much different setting: a war it fought roughly 60 years ago and with it, 60 years worth of being the most powerful nation in the world. This is from this scenario: www.changingthetimes.net/samples/asb/isot_american_2002.htmWhat are your thoughts? Gone will be the days of carpet bombing cities have having the bombs hit homes. We would just drop one bomb and hit the door of the place the bad guys are in. Night would be nothing as we just use our night vision goggles and kill the Nazis while about 1000 meters away. The war ends by 1943. Given the tech we would be the ones entering Berlin and taking Hitler unless he eats it. I guess we could just send somebody in and kill him. We should know where he'll be at any given date so just have somebody from NATO act like a Nazi and kill him as soon as he or she can. In 2002 we should have alot more World War 2 veterans so you have no opposition from them. Hell I could see a few of them being willing to help in whatever way they can. But the war is one-sided and we save the Jews in the camps. Alot of families are going to have loved ones who were killed be saved here. |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jul 19, 2021 13:08:35 GMT
The USA as of March 13, 2002 is ISOT-ed to 1942. With the War on Terror currently in full swing, the United States finds itself in a much different setting: a war it fought roughly 60 years ago and with it, 60 years worth of being the most powerful nation in the world. This is from this scenario: www.changingthetimes.net/samples/asb/isot_american_2002.htmWhat are your thoughts? Gone will be the days of carpet bombing cities have having the bombs hit homes. We would just drop one bomb and hit the door of the place the bad guys are in. Night would be nothing as we just use our night vision goggles and kill the Nazis while about 1000 meters away. The war ends by 1943. Given the tech we would be the ones entering Berlin and taking Hitler unless he eats it. I guess we could just send somebody in and kill him. We should know where he'll be at any given date so just have somebody from NATO act like a Nazi and kill him as soon as he or she can. In 2002 we should have alot more World War 2 veterans so you have no opposition from them. Hell I could see a few of them being willing to help in whatever way they can. But the war is one-sided and we save the Jews in the camps. Alot of families are going to have loved ones who were killed be saved here. In that case, all the U.S. needs is to send a B-2 with a bunker buster or a B-1 armed with a precision strike weapon. None of the Nazi anti-aircraft guns can shoot down these bombers from the future. I take that the F-117 Nighthawk was still in service so these two could take out those bunkers around Germany. Also you are correct, JSOC would want to assassinate Hitler, Tojo, Mussolini, and their top generals. SEALs, Delta, ISA, the Green Berets, the U.S. Army Rangers, and the AFSOC would easily defeat the Germans and Japanese infantry in the battlefield due to having M4 rifles with optics and NVGs. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 19, 2021 13:54:44 GMT
Alright chaps, how are precision guided weapons delivered in 2002? There is the JDAM, which is GPS guided, and laser guided bombs. The former will not be operable without the GPS network.
Night vision and optics don’t make up for a huge disparity in numbers and firepower; indeed, it doesn’t make sense to fight Axis infantry.
Rule 1: Don’t fight on the enemy’s playing field.
I wouldn’t be so quick to adopt the Hollywood approach of simply killing Hitler and suddenly things are fine and dandy. Even in 1944, the delusional Valkyrie types thought they could hang onto their gains and not demilitarise.
The US of 2002 has a lot of great gear, but it is hi-tech and not in the type of numbers seen in 1991, let alone the 1960s, 70s and 80s. Now, it doesn’t need WW2 level mass production, but it’s capacities have some very vulnerable nodes - types of fuel, runways, limited tankers, limited production runs for types of ammo and more.
Don’t focus on the tactics or name drop the cool weapons. Consider the logistics and then we get somewhere. I endorse what Chinuaeustadt said.
We also need to look at the leadership of the time and understand his historical perspective. Having read a lot of what Mr Bush said and wrote, I can say hitting the infrastructure of the Holocaust would be a priority.
In basic terms, though, I would not write off the use of nuclear weapons. Destroying the IJN, nuking a German army or sending a message to Stalin cannot be ruled out. Mao is fairly much buggered.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 19, 2021 14:53:39 GMT
Agree with Simon. Just assassinating a few figures won't change the basic problem of brutal and militarily expansionist regimes and furthermore will make them martyrs to their populations. Not to mention assassinations of political leaders, even in a major war could be a can of worms that the developed world, either the 2002 US or the 1942 western allies, have concerns about opening. Even more so the idea of small number of special forces troops going up against massed downtime military. Properly organised they would be able to do a hell of a lot of damage but their going to suffer badly themselves.
Also there will be limits to what can be done in strategic bombing without using nukes. With the advantage of later knowledge there may well be knowledge of key points - such as communications and transport centres, power station, coal to oil plants that could have a crippling impact on Axis production. However implementing such attacks with sufficient accuracy could be an issue, even with 2002 technology.
The rescue of the isolated forces in the Philippines that occurs in the TL might work although it does mean exposing uptime force with limited support and a long and exposed supply line until either/or Japanese air and naval forces are pretty much totally destroyed and a number of island stepping stones to the Philippines are captured.
The most likely initial impacts are likely to be destruction of a lot of large surface naval units and especially in the Atlantic German U boats. Coupled with once suitable bases or technology is transferred to Britain attacks to both impact German production - and possibly morale given their impact and the impossibility of stopping them - and German offensive abilities in the air. Those operations are likely to over a slightly lower period of time also have impacts on German pressure on Russia as its likely that not only would air power likely to pulled back to try and defend against the allied air attacks but also as production capacity declined.
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