Dark Earth General Discussion

Running through the currently forecast requirements of the Scandinavian nations alone:

Sweden: 480 Blue Envoys, 250 Tornados, 200 Harriers, 65 TSR-2, 560 PT.428, MRLs, SRBMs, 450+ Attack Helicopters

Denmark: 360+ aircraft (104 Vixen, 80 Delta, 54 Hunter, 50 Swift) 500 MBT, 800 APC, SAMs, SPAAGs, SPHs, MRLs, AShMs, ATGMs

Norway: 500 MBT, 1000 APC, 250+ aircraft (96 Delta, 78 Hunter), SAMs, SPAAGs, artillery, missiles, MRLs, AShMs, ATGMs

It is quite large and necessary to fill, given their proximity and importance to British policy in Europe. The same can be said for the Benelux nations and the Balkan states (Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Albania and Greece).

This is pushing the capacity of British armaments manufacturers to build for export and their own rearmament, hence something of the games being played to keep European, Middle Eastern, South American and Asian markets satisfied and not losing them to the Americans, French or Germans.

Hence, new states in Africa get “The Package”:

Centurion tanks
Knight APCs
25pdrs
Hawker Hunters
Fairey Deltas
Small arms, mortars and light AA
Land Rovers
Austin Champion jeeps
Leyland lorries

The numbers vary according to their needs, but is what has gone to Nigeria, the Gold Coast-Ivory Coast Federation, Tanganyika, Uganda, Somalia and Libya so far. The French have their own version, but London is courting some of their former colonies, whilst the Congo is a darn mess. Sudan is a matter kicked into the long grass by the Egyptian situation.

Only a handful of states are still formal colonies - the Portuguese holdings and British bits of East Africa, really.

In the open ore in caves.

From how far the British Luke to hoard weapons, the Middle Ages onward.

Calibres, Calibres Everywhere:

1.) From February:

-The shift from DDGs to DLGs is similar to some moves that occurred in @, specifically the jump from the 4500t Charles F. Adams DDGs to the 8000-9600t Spruance/Kidd/Ticonderoga DDs/DDGs/DLGs. The RN’s DDGs range from 5200t-7500t, with the earlier vessels likely to be sold to emerging markets overseas. The Type 42/ Town class DLGs/super destroyers that will replace them will displace ~12,500t, which is another “sweet spot” in displacement. They will be double ended ships capable of operating a pair of Rotodynes with a twin 6” gun mount in A and Y and a twin missile launcher in B and X. I’m considering a name that combines some sense of the Rainbow Codes, the previous 4-T system (which did signify a fair bit of behind the scenes Anglo-American cooperation...) and Sea Dart, which does have a certain ring to it. Other guided missiles will include Blue Falcon (an anti-submarine missile carrying a torpedo, like Ikara, but has a maximum range of 16nm and a much faster speed of Mach 0.85), Paladin (an AShM in the Exocet/Harpoon class), Sea Wolf and a longer range strike missile.
- I’m leaning towards 6” over 5.25” due to range, weight of shell and a decent rate of fire, but am not wedded to it. The advantage of the 5.25” is not much reduction of range and a big leap in rate of fire, which does allow dual purpose AAW/ASuW fire missions.
- The other side of this is the Joint Light ASW Frigate, displacing ~4800t, carrying a single medium calibre gun, light AA guns, some sort of light AAW missile, ASW missiles, a pair of Sea King helicopters and a towed array sonar. The RN and Commonwealth options for that main gun are 4.5”, 120mm, 5” or 5.25”. I’m discounting 4.5” due to too light a shell and shorter range; there is not much to be gained from introducing a new calibre such as 120mm or 127mm in those categories either.
-Having both the destroyers and frigates standardise on 5.25”, even if the former is a twin and the latter is a single, is a big advantage. The other calibres would be the 25”, 12” and 9.2”, so reducing the types to four in total would be a boon. Interested to hear opinions/views.

Option 1: 5.25” twins for DLGs and the older DDGs and 5.25” single on the new frigates
Option 2: 5.25” for DLG/DDG and 4.5” for frigates

As a side note, the “next cruiser” is likely to merge the County CGNs and the Leander CLGs into a single universal hull that would have CG and CGN versions. I’m leaning towards a 9.2” gun for it.

There is a gap for a Battlecruiser. I’m willing to do some juggling on that, particularly given that I’ve been fluid in calling the London CGNs both “cruisers” and “battlecruisers”.

2.) Pistols

To replace the older .455 Webley for pistols and SMGs, as well as other lesser used variants, as outlined in the Spec Forces post of ANJ, a new calibre is sought. What sticks out for me is .40/10mm. It is bigger and hotter than 9mm without being as bulky as .455” or a .45. Are there any other calibre options that come to mind?

Just as I’ve done some overviews of the British Army, I’ll have a couple of related works for the RN and RAF.

Any particular areas there are interest in?

A bit of a preview:

Submarines

The Royal Navy has now disposed of the last wartime submarines of the Amphion class from active and reserve service.

There are two classes of conventional powered submarines in service, the Oberons and Porpoises. The first of the latter are just entering service, being among the fastest and deepest diving conventional subs in the world, but this capacity comes at considerable cost. Sixteen boats are planned initially, giving the Royal Navy a total of 48 SSKs. Their primary roles are patrol and ASW, with secondary intelligence and reconnaissance missions, particularly in the littoral zones; protection of the principle Home atomic submarine bases at Faslane, Scapa Flow, Rosyth, Devonport, Pembroke Dock, Lough Swilly, Dingle Bay and Caer Llynar is an increasing priority.

Dreadnought
5200t, 380ft x 32ft x 30ft, 8 x 24” TT, 30kts

Warspite, Valiant
5250t, 385ft x 32ft x 30ft, 8 x 24” TT, 30kts

The oldest three British atomic submarines, Dreadnought, Warspite and Valiant are in a decreased operational status due to their advancing age and are primarily used for training exercises and weapons testing. They are to be decommissioned from 1970 as they are replaced by more effective boats after hard use over their active careers.

Barham, Devastation, Inflexible, Edgar
5400t, 395ft x 32ft x 32ft, 8 x 24” TT, 30kts

The Barham class entered service from 1955/56 and are regarded as good second line fleet submarines for action in the Far East and Mediterranean.

Revenge, Royal Oak, Renown, Repulse
5600t, 400ft x 35ft x 32ft, 8 x 24” TT, 32kts

The Revenge class entered service from 1957/58 and all serve with the Mediterranean Fleet as of 1968.

Rodney, Howe, Benbow, Hawke, Anson, Collingwood
6250t, 425ft x 35ft x 35ft, 8 x 24” TT, 35kts

The Rodneys were the first substantially different and larger British SSNs and their increased speed (from improved reactor power) has given them exceptional flexibility. They are concentrated in the Mediterranean and Far East.

Churchill, Cromwell, Cressy, Caesar, Conquest, Cornwallis, Cerberus, Concord, Caerleon, Consort, Crown, Chivalrous
7500t, 475ft x 36ft x 35ft, 20 x Supermarine Lionheart SLCM, 8 x 32” TT, 32kts

The Churchill class submarines carried the new Lionheart strategic cruise missiles, whilst retaining a primary role as fleet boats and eight entered service from 1959-1962, with the final four following on in 1963-64. They are concentrated in the Grand Fleet, with four in the Mediterranean. They were the first to field the new 32" torpedo tubes, which allow for the launch of further cruise missiles, improved torpedoes (24", 32" and the 8" counter-torpedo) and further new emerging weapons.

Drake, Raleigh, St. Vincent, Blake, Albemarle, Montagu, Russell, Exmouth, Hawkins, Frobisher, Effingham, Ratcliffe, Rupert, Jellicoe, Beatty, Cunningham
7500t, 425ft x 36ft x 34ft, 8 x Supermarine Lionheart SLCM, 8 x 32" TT, 36kts

The Drakes are the backbone of the Grand Fleet and are noted as being quieter than the first generation of RN attack boats, serving as something of a bridging class to their successors.

Racehorse, Rapid, Rocket, Rover, Roebuck, Reynard, Rorqual, Raglan, Ruby, Redgauntlet, Ready, Rambler
10,000t, 460ft x 45ft x 36ft, 12 x Supermarine Lionheart SLCM, 12 x Hawker-Siddeley Paladin ASM, 8 x 32" TT, 40kts

The R class are the backbone of the RN's mid 1960s construction increase and the first to carry fully integrated Paladin anti-ship missiles in vertical launcher cells, allowing more torpedoes to be carried (40 as compared to 32 for the Drakes and Churchills). They are concentrated with the Grand Fleet, but some boats will be deployed to the Far East in 1969. They are to be the first boats to deploy the de Havilland Blue Moon long range naval strike missile at the end of 1968.

Sovereign, Spitfire, Speedwell, Supreme, Spearhead, Swift, Strongbow, Spiteful; Seadog, Swordsman, Scorpion, Seawolf

The first four S class boats were laid down in 1967 and they are scheduled to enter service in 1971. They will feature a significant increase in general capability and armament, including sail-launched anti-aircraft missiles

SSBNs:

Resolution, Retribution, Resistance, Redoubtable, Ramillies, Reprisal, Raider, Regulus, Romulus, Retaliation, Regent, Ranger, Resurgent, Reward, Robust, Roman, Rigorous, Radiant, Ready, Restless
10,000t, 465ft x 45ft x 35ft, 24 English Electric Green Knight SLBM, 4 x 24” TT, 25kts

Construction of the Resolution class is now complete at 20 boats, with a successor class under design for entry into service in the latter part of the 1970s.