lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 20, 2020 19:31:20 GMT
Hmmm... wrong dead F1 pilot. That was Paletti 1982, one month after Villeneuve. No footage exist of De Angelis death, it was during private practice. Sorry, seems there where a lot of deaths in the 1980s to 1990s. |
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archibald
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Post by archibald on Aug 21, 2020 6:04:06 GMT
And so it begins... with a perfectly unknown, obscure French pilot. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_HesnaultPart 1 Circuit Paul Ricard, southern France - May 1985 That was a circuit build for speed, and the dreaded curve of Signes, followed by a 1 miles straight, launched the car at nearly 200 mph. And right at this moment, the rear wing went flying away. At such speed, and with a 1500 hp BMW turbo engine in the back, the crash could only be devastating.
And it was.
The car somersaulted, lifted off briefly, and then started a serie of terrifying cartwheels – nearly a dozen of them over distance later found to be 500 ft. The disintegrating car hit the bareers, flew over them and started tangling into the catch fencing, the last line of defence for the public (fortunately there was none : it was a day of private testing).
As the disintegrating car rolled again and again, catch fencing tangled around it, slowing it down but also wrapping around the car, cockpit included, trapping the unfortunate pilot inside the cell safety, which fortunately resisted the varied shocks. What was left of the car finally come a halt. Luckily enough, most of the fuel had been burn previously or send flying all over the place, hence the car did not caught fire. But it was upside down and the pilot was trapped inside, tightly, by all the catch fencing.
It was not a day of racing but of training secession, to improve the cars. In this months of may many teams had gathered on the French track of Le Castellet, better known as Paul Ricard. Prost, Rosberg, Mansell, and others stopped by the wreck and unsuccessfully tried to free the unfortunate pilot, to no avail. The catch fencing was wrapped around the car survival cell, and, more wrrying, no safety team was in sight for at least 15 minutes. Thanksfully the pilot was fully conscious and soon thereafter a lone safety car come the rescue at least. A solid pair of scissors were used to cut François Hesnault free at least. He was carried to La Timone hospital in nearby Marseille.
He was unhurt, at least physically. Inside, he was angered.
The day was May 25, 1985.
Among French pilots, pretty numerous those days, François Hesnault was perhaps the least known. He had been hired by Guy Ligier the year before, and then by Bernie Ecclestone in the difficult role of Nelson Piquet team mate. Hesnault was no coward: he actually had some previous military background, including as a parachutist in the French Army in Africa, and a marked taste for risk and adventure that ultimately led him to motor racing and Formula One. But THIS accident was too much, really, and Hesnault announced he was out of F1.
For the Brabham team owner and dark lord of F1 it was the beginning of a very bad era. "18 months in hell, really. I knew that if Nelson Piquet left, bad days would come. But Brabham literally imploded in my face."
--------------------
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archibald
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The PRC was standing on the edge of an abyss. And Mao said "let's make a Great Leap Forward"
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Post by archibald on Aug 21, 2020 6:15:05 GMT
Note: this crash is OTL, and a carbon copy of what happened to De Angelis exactly a year later, to the week.
And right between the two (March 6, 1986)on a road nearby was also the car accident that left Frank Williams paralyzed from the waist down.
The medics and paramedics there (Paul Ricard and Marseille hospital, La Timone) healed or tried to heal Hesnault, Williams and De Angelis within less than a year... the irony.
just like Imola 1994, the sequence of previous accidents and missed opportunities was startling.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 21, 2020 6:42:17 GMT
For the Brabham team owner and dark lord of F1 it was the beginning of a very bad era. "18 months in hell, really. I knew that if Nelson Piquet left, bad days would come. But Brabham literally imploded in my face."
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Never knew Bernie Ecclestone owned a team of his own, would that not be conflict on interest. |
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archibald
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The PRC was standing on the edge of an abyss. And Mao said "let's make a Great Leap Forward"
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Post by archibald on Aug 21, 2020 7:35:58 GMT
Conflict of interest ? For Ecclestone ? no such things ever existed.  To make a long story short, Ecclestone Brabham, Mosley March, and some others British teams (Ken Tyrrell, Collin Chapman Lotus) created the FOCA (= F1 team syndicate) and then rebeled against FISA and Balestre iron grip, in the 70's. The nuclear war nearly split F1 in 1980, somewhat like Tony George did 15 years later to Indycart (CART vs IRL). Yeah. If you thought CART vs IRL was disastrous, Ecclestone FOCA vs Balestre FISA could have been even more ugly. No split happened however, and there was a ceasefire in 1982. Then Ecclestone + Mosley gradually took control of F1 TV rights and big money, and Balestre was kicked out of FISA in 1991. Who replaced him ? Mosley ! Funnily enough, both Balestre and Max Mosley father (Oswald Mosley - this one, yes) were neo-fascists. Balestre spend the war at Vichy, along Pétain... All this to say, Formula One was ruled by evil con men, really. Ken Tyrrell and Colin Chapman were crooks, too.
There was also a pilot rebellion in 1982, since Balestre and Ecclestone were equally bad for the pilots. The pilots refused to race and locked themselves in an hotel. Elio de Angelis played piano to distract the rebels...
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 21, 2020 7:38:03 GMT
Conflict of interest ? For Ecclestone ? no such things ever existed. To make a long story short, Ecclestone Brabham, Mosley March, and some others British teams (Ken Tyrrell, Collin Chapman Lotus) created the FOCA (= F1 team syndicate) and then rebeled against FISA and Balestre iron grip, in the 70's. The nuclear war nearly split F1 in 1980, somewhat like Tony George did 15 years later to Indycart (CART vs IRL). Yeah. If you thought CART vs IRL was disastrous, Ecclestone FOCA vs Balestre FISA could have been even more ugly. No split happened however, and there was a ceasefire in 1982. Then Ecclestone + Mosley gradually took control of F1 TV rights and big money, and Balestre was kicked out of FISA in 1991. Who replaced him ? Mosley ! Funnily enough, both Balestre and Max Mosley father (Oswald Mosley - this one, yes) were neo-fascists. Balestre spend the war at Vichy, along Pétain... All this to say, Formula One was ruled by evil con men, really. Ken Tyrrell and Colin Chapman were crooks, too. And now F1 is american owned. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 21, 2020 12:26:05 GMT
And so it begins... with a perfectly unknown, obscure French pilot. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_HesnaultPart 1 Circuit Paul Ricard, southern France - May 1985 That was a circuit build for speed, and the dreaded curve of Signes, followed by a 1 miles straight, launched the car at nearly 200 mph. And right at this moment, the rear wing went flying away. At such speed, and with a 1500 hp BMW turbo engine in the back, the crash could only be devastating.
And it was.
The car somersaulted, lifted off briefly, and then started a serie of terrifying cartwheels – nearly a dozen of them over distance later found to be 500 ft. The disintegrating car hit the bareers, flew over them and started tangling into the catch fencing, the last line of defence for the public (fortunately there was none : it was a day of private testing).
As the disintegrating car rolled again and again, catch fencing tangled around it, slowing it down but also wrapping around the car, cockpit included, trapping the unfortunate pilot inside the cell safety, which fortunately resisted the varied shocks. What was left of the car finally come a halt. Luckily enough, most of the fuel had been burn previously or send flying all over the place, hence the car did not caught fire. But it was upside down and the pilot was trapped inside, tightly, by all the catch fencing.
It was not a day of racing but of training secession, to improve the cars. In this months of may many teams had gathered on the French track of Le Castellet, better known as Paul Ricard. Prost, Rosberg, Mansell, and others stopped by the wreck and unsuccessfully tried to free the unfortunate pilot, to no avail. The catch fencing was wrapped around the car survival cell, and, more wrrying, no safety team was in sight for at least 15 minutes. Thanksfully the pilot was fully conscious and soon thereafter a lone safety car come the rescue at least. A solid pair of scissors were used to cut François Hesnault free at least. He was carried to La Timone hospital in nearby Marseille.
He was unhurt, at least physically. Inside, he was angered.
The day was May 25, 1985.
Among French pilots, pretty numerous those days, François Hesnault was perhaps the least known. He had been hired by Guy Ligier the year before, and then by Bernie Ecclestone in the difficult role of Nelson Piquet team mate. Hesnault was no coward: he actually had some previous military background, including as a parachutist in the French Army in Africa, and a marked taste for risk and adventure that ultimately led him to motor racing and Formula One. But THIS accident was too much, really, and Hesnault announced he was out of F1.
For the Brabham team owner and dark lord of F1 it was the beginning of a very bad era. "18 months in hell, really. I knew that if Nelson Piquet left, bad days would come. But Brabham literally imploded in my face."
--------------------
I get the feeling with François Hesnault surviving and being so angry, plus the sheer lack of medical support there's going to be a strong reaction by a lot of drivers pushing for greater safety, possibly being a factor in the destruction of Ecclestone's cartel?
Is there any reason why you use the term pilots or is that what is traditionally used in France? Their normally called drivers in English so it gave me a quick double take. Anyway looks like its going to be interesting. but hopefully safer times are coming up.
Steve
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archibald
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The PRC was standing on the edge of an abyss. And Mao said "let's make a Great Leap Forward"
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Post by archibald on Aug 21, 2020 13:37:52 GMT
Spot on for "pilots" versus "drivers". As would say Homer Simpsons " D'OOOOHHH !!!You got it right. I made the crash worse than OTL without killing him, as I hate killing people even virtually.
Hesnault crash, being a carbon copy of De Angelis a year ahead, will help indeed.
How that ? Hesnault is French but, most importantly, his family was influential and politically connected. With their son badly shaken, there will be blood on the carpet and on the walls.
Also note that De Angelis hated testing... and so we nearly lost Riccardo Patrese instead of him. De Angelis got an extremely bad Monaco GP and felt so ashamed and angered, he told Patrese "Well, this time, I go testing at Paul Riccard." Patrese "Nope. It's my turn; You hate that." "No way. I'm going." And so Patrese lived and De Angelis died that day of may 1986. Fate, really. |
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archibald
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The PRC was standing on the edge of an abyss. And Mao said "let's make a Great Leap Forward"
Posts: 359
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Post by archibald on Aug 22, 2020 7:41:33 GMT
And, as promised, massive amount of *fecal matter* start hitting the proverbial fan...
May 1985 BRABHAM FRENCH PILOT FRANÇOIS HESNAULT BADLY HURT AT PAUL RICARD. Alain Prost «This was private testing, as such, nobody gave a fuck about safety. Hesnault spent half an hour in the mangled remains of his Brabham that was completely stuck, wrapped in catch fencing. There was nothing we could do except to pray for the car not to catch fire, as no track marshall was in sight.» Among pilots Hesnault has a peculiar profile. The heir to a considerable family transport business, he only started racing once he had completed his military service in the French parachute corps. With such background, no-one would ever have called François Hesnault a man without courage. He was lucky to be born into a family which, as he was growing up, developed a huge transportation empire, carving out new markets in the Pacific, Asia and particularly in Africa.
His father Pierre, a former paratrooper, enjoyed close relationships with leaders in a number of African countries and also within French government circles. The group moved everything, from missiles to furniture. François’s brother Philippe was a keen racer but his career was short because he was sent off to Asia by his father, to develop the business. Nonetheless he raced at Le Mans in 1975 and again in 1980.
When François was 16 years old he suffered a very serious injury to one of his hands in a shooting accident. It took eight operations – and a great deal of pain – to repair the damage. By the time he was 19 Hesnault had become a junior officer in one of France’s most celebrated parachute regiments and was sent out to Africa, where he saw action when France intervened in local conflicts. Having acquired a taste for adventure, he set up his own trading company – to do business in dangerous countries – where people did not always play by the rules.
When he was not off doing deals in Africa, he decided to do some racing, starting out in some hillclimbs around Paris. He discovered that he was very competitive and so enrolled at the famous Winfield School at Magny-Cours, although he was sick with hepatitis at the end of 1979 and so missed the Volant Elf finals, which could have won him a free ride in French Formula Renault in 1980. Instead he raised the money to do it himself.
And then in 1984 he drove for Ligier and a year later, for Brabham.
Hesnault family is presently furious against both Ecclestone and Paul Ricard, talking about criminal negligence. They will probably take some legal action, which could have devastating consequences, considering Hesnault famility political relationships...
---------------------------
HESNAULT SUCCESSOR AT BRABHAM WILL BE SWISS VETERAN MARC SURER f1i.com/magazine/65278-breakfast-marc-surer.htmlwww.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/november-2003/50/marc-of-respecten.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_SurerGuess what ? that poor Surer had some very heavy jinx attached to his motorsport career even OTL. And it won't improve ITTL.
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Just to help a little following the divergence from OTL... There is an amazing F1 website, www.statsf1.com/ unfortunately (for you !) in French. The author is truly some kind of F1 maniac ! I tried to put it in Google translation. Need your feedback about this... could be very useful, as the website has some incredible details and statistics. translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=fr&pto=aue&rurl=translate.google.fr&sl=fr&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.statsf1.com/fr/1985/bresil.aspx&usg=ALkJrhgvEcn62sgsyXVytCiESTIW6WrJuA |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 22, 2020 9:31:36 GMT
BRABHAM FRENCH PILOT FRANÇOIS HESNAULT BADLY HURT AT PAUL RICARD. Seems he was the first to use a prototype onboard camera, something which is normal in today F1 races, thanks archibald , did not know this until i googled him. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 22, 2020 10:03:07 GMT
And, as promised, massive amount of *fecal matter* start hitting the proverbial fan...
May 1985 BRABHAM FRENCH PILOT FRANÇOIS HESNAULT BADLY HURT AT PAUL RICARD. Alain Prost «This was private testing, as such, nobody gave a fuck about safety. Hesnault spent half an hour in the mangled remains of his Brabham that was completely stuck, wrapped in catch fencing. There was nothing we could do except to pray for the car not to catch fire, as no track marshall was in sight.» Among pilots Hesnault has a peculiar profile. The heir to a considerable family transport business, he only started racing once he had completed his military service in the French parachute corps. With such background, no-one would ever have called François Hesnault a man without courage. He was lucky to be born into a family which, as he was growing up, developed a huge transportation empire, carving out new markets in the Pacific, Asia and particularly in Africa.
His father Pierre, a former paratrooper, enjoyed close relationships with leaders in a number of African countries and also within French government circles. The group moved everything, from missiles to furniture. François’s brother Philippe was a keen racer but his career was short because he was sent off to Asia by his father, to develop the business. Nonetheless he raced at Le Mans in 1975 and again in 1980.
When François was 16 years old he suffered a very serious injury to one of his hands in a shooting accident. It took eight operations – and a great deal of pain – to repair the damage. By the time he was 19 Hesnault had become a junior officer in one of France’s most celebrated parachute regiments and was sent out to Africa, where he saw action when France intervened in local conflicts. Having acquired a taste for adventure, he set up his own trading company – to do business in dangerous countries – where people did not always play by the rules.
When he was not off doing deals in Africa, he decided to do some racing, starting out in some hillclimbs around Paris. He discovered that he was very competitive and so enrolled at the famous Winfield School at Magny-Cours, although he was sick with hepatitis at the end of 1979 and so missed the Volant Elf finals, which could have won him a free ride in French Formula Renault in 1980. Instead he raised the money to do it himself.
And then in 1984 he drove for Ligier and a year later, for Brabham.
Hesnault family is presently furious against both Ecclestone and Paul Ricard, talking about criminal negligence. They will probably take some legal action, which could have devastating consequences, considering Hesnault famility political relationships...
---------------------------
HESNAULT SUCCESSOR AT BRABHAM WILL BE SWISS VETERAN MARC SURER f1i.com/magazine/65278-breakfast-marc-surer.htmlwww.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/november-2003/50/marc-of-respecten.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_SurerGuess what ? that poor Surer had some very heavy jinx attached to his motorsport career even OTL. And it won't improve ITTL.
---------------------------
Just to help a little following the divergence from OTL... There is an amazing F1 website, www.statsf1.com/ unfortunately (for you !) in French. The author is truly some kind of F1 maniac ! I tried to put it in Google translation. Need your feedback about this... could be very useful, as the website has some incredible details and statistics. translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=fr&pto=aue&rurl=translate.google.fr&sl=fr&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.statsf1.com/fr/1985/bresil.aspx&usg=ALkJrhgvEcn62sgsyXVytCiESTIW6WrJuA
That link looks fine to me. Very good work. Only skimmed through it as a hell of a lot of detail there but seemed very clear. Many thanks.
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archibald
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The PRC was standing on the edge of an abyss. And Mao said "let's make a Great Leap Forward"
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Post by archibald on Aug 22, 2020 10:29:40 GMT
Thank you for your support guys ! Nice.
Stefen Bellof having a different fate (you will see how soon) immediately impacts his two OTL successors at Tyrrell:
- Philippe Streiff (France)
- Ivan Capelli (Italy)
Well, these two (very brilliant but unlucky OTL) pilots were seemingly connected to a large number of motorsport heavyweights, in F1 and elsewhere. A different fate for them will have massive impact on France scattered and pathetic F1 efforts (that finally sunk for good with Prost GP a decade later OTL).
Capelli was part of that, too, and also another non French team that made a huge impact on F1 three years later, 1988-89...
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 22, 2020 10:35:29 GMT
Thank you for your support guys ! Nice. Stefen Bellof having a different fate (you will see how soon) immediately impacts his two OTL successors at Tyrrell: - Philippe Streiff (France) - Ivan Capelli (Italy) Well, these two (very brilliant but unlucky OTL) pilots were seemingly connected to a large number of motorsport heavyweights, in F1 and elsewhere. A different fate for them will have massive impact on France scattered and pathetic F1 efforts (that finally sunk for good with Prost GP a decade later OTL). Capelli was part of that, too, and also another non French team that made a huge impact on F1 three years later, 1988-89... Wait is having unlucky pilots not part of the F1, we have them these days as well, mostly in Haas F1 Team. |
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archibald
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The PRC was standing on the edge of an abyss. And Mao said "let's make a Great Leap Forward"
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Post by archibald on Aug 22, 2020 11:45:01 GMT
Since the team seems to be a shit hole... then kind of appropriate name for it. The drivers should have checked before signing the contract
...
(runs for cover). |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 22, 2020 11:51:11 GMT
Kind of appropriate name for the team - they should have checked before signing the contract (run for cover). Not the strangest name it seems: Top Ten: Oddest team namesAt least the names for 1985 are normal, expect the last on that is: Alfa Romeo Arrows Brabham Ferrari Ligier Lola Lotus McLaren Minardi Osella RAM Renault Spirit Toleman Tyrrell Williams Zakspeed |
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