lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 12, 2021 21:18:55 GMT
All the Meteor pilots can do is to make the Migs operate at the limit of their range, then to bounce them. Do the Dutch have any SAMs at all, like HAWK or Bloodhound? They have the 7e Afdeling Lichte Luchtdoelartillerie, N-peloton (equipped with Bofors 40 mm L/70 anti-aircraft guns) located at Hollandia.    |
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Mar 12, 2021 21:24:40 GMT
All the Meteor pilots can do is to make the Migs operate at the limit of their range, then to bounce them. Do the Dutch have any SAMs at all, like HAWK or Bloodhound? I don't believe they had any in theater at the time. AIUI, their AA was mostly old 3"and 40mm mounts |
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Mar 12, 2021 21:31:16 GMT
Next update, no. That I can confirm. Will there eventually be an air battle? Maybe... Well it will not end well for the Netherlands would be my guess, they are outnumbered and i do not know how the Hunters will fare against the Migs that are flown by the Indonesians. Hunters actually match up pretty well with MiG-17s. They're slightly faster and Dutch F.6's carried 2xAIM-9s in addition to their 30mm ADEN cannons. |
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Post by La Rouge Beret on Mar 12, 2021 22:32:33 GMT
The Hunter with their better trained crews should have the advantage, particularly combined with the Sidewinder and competent GCI.
I am really interested in the EW side of the conflict too.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Mar 12, 2021 23:10:12 GMT
The Hunter with their better trained crews should have the advantage, particularly combined with the Sidewinder and competent GCI. I am really interested in the EW side of the conflict too. IIRC, they have a few radars in the area, both on West New Guinea itself and on Biak. You can assume that they've been drilling on GCI. Of course, the squadron based there with the most experience working with the controllers is flying Meteors. Unless and until Hunters arrive, there are easier ways for those crews to commit suicide |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 13, 2021 7:50:27 GMT
The Hunter with their better trained crews should have the advantage, particularly combined with the Sidewinder and competent GCI. I am really interested in the EW side of the conflict too. IIRC, they have a few radars in the area, both on West New Guinea itself and on Biak. You can assume that they've been drilling on GCI. Of course, the squadron based there with the most experience working with the controllers is flying Meteors. Unless and until Hunters arrive, there are easier ways for those crews to commit suicide Here is a YouTube clip of one of these OTL radars, it is bad quality but is shows one in action. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 13, 2021 12:19:03 GMT
The question is having given clear diplomatic support for the Netherlands over the Indonesian colonial claims can the US do nothing when there has been a clear and unprovoked attack - regardless of whatever excuses Indonesia give about claiming the entire region as theirs? Plus if any news gets out that the Soviets are supplying men as well as equipment that could change things.
The other option is possibly Britain, both in support of Australia and also since Indonesia is threatening Malaysia. We're a lot less capable than the US but there are forces in theatre so even a stepping up of military awareness could tie down some enemy forces at least.
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575
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Post by 575 on Mar 13, 2021 13:12:18 GMT
What a read! I know You won't be giving away stuff and respect it though I guess if they clobber the Dutch which seems likely by now the Indonesians may get embolded for Konfrontasi in the North! Keep up the good work.  |
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Mar 13, 2021 16:09:43 GMT
The question is having given clear diplomatic support for the Netherlands over the Indonesian colonial claims can the US do nothing when there has been a clear and unprovoked attack - regardless of whatever excuses Indonesia give about claiming the entire region as theirs? Plus if any news gets out that the Soviets are supplying men as well as equipment that could change things.
The other option is possibly Britain, both in support of Australia and also since Indonesia is threatening Malaysia. We're a lot less capable than the US but there are forces in theatre so even a stepping up of military awareness could tie down some enemy forces at least.
To quote FDR: All aid short of war. The US will do what they can, but they won't want to actually fight. Maybe some air support from carriers would be possible. More likely, they'll offer to mediate the conflict and help the Dutch with supply. And yes, the UK has forces in the region that will be moving to a higher alert status along with the UK investigating the possibility of reinforcing their garrisons. |
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Mar 13, 2021 16:12:11 GMT
What a read! I know You won't be giving away stuff and respect it though I guess if they clobber the Dutch which seems likely by now the Indonesians may get embolded for Konfrontasi in the North! Keep up the good work. Thank you! Konfrontasi will definitely look different this time around |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 13, 2021 18:35:41 GMT
What a read! I know You won't be giving away stuff and respect it though I guess if they clobber the Dutch which seems likely by now the Indonesians may get embolded for Konfrontasi in the North! Keep up the good work. Thank you! Konfrontasi will definitely look different this time around So Indonesia wants the British to join if they go North. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 14, 2021 11:10:38 GMT
Thank you! Konfrontasi will definitely look different this time around So Indonesia wants the British to join if they go North.
No their also seeking to exert colonial claims on Northern Borneo, which is currently part of the Malayan federation that Britain is moving towards independence, possibly in the wilder dreams hoping to conquer the Malaya peninsula itself, which would be a significant economic boost to them. OTL they made attacks on the population in N Borneo but British aid to local forces generally repulsed them and it never grew into a larger conflict but by the sound of it here, with the US ducking out, encouraged by direct Soviet support and the success of a military 'victory' over the Dutch the Indonesians could decide to make it a major shooting war.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Mar 14, 2021 15:57:02 GMT
So Indonesia wants the British to join if they go North.
No their also seeking to exert colonial claims on Northern Borneo, which is currently part of the Malayan federation that Britain is moving towards independence, possibly in the wilder dreams hoping to conquer the Malaya peninsula itself, which would be a significant economic boost to them. OTL they made attacks on the population in N Borneo but British aid to local forces generally repulsed them and it never grew into a larger conflict but by the sound of it here, with the US ducking out, encouraged by direct Soviet support and the success of a military 'victory' over the Dutch the Indonesians could decide to make it a major shooting war.
The US isn't exactly ducking out. They just don't want to get into a full scale war over someone else's colony. Unlike most of the countries in the region (or out of it) they have some options, like deploying the 19th Air Force. That was a specialized force that could deploy significant combat power anywhere in the world within 24 hours and be self sustaining for 30 days. However, their primary mission was deterrence, not combat (though they were fully combat capable). |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 14, 2021 16:38:53 GMT
No their also seeking to exert colonial claims on Northern Borneo, which is currently part of the Malayan federation that Britain is moving towards independence, possibly in the wilder dreams hoping to conquer the Malaya peninsula itself, which would be a significant economic boost to them. OTL they made attacks on the population in N Borneo but British aid to local forces generally repulsed them and it never grew into a larger conflict but by the sound of it here, with the US ducking out, encouraged by direct Soviet support and the success of a military 'victory' over the Dutch the Indonesians could decide to make it a major shooting war.
The US isn't exactly ducking out. They just don't want to get into a full scale war over someone else's colony. Unlike most of the countries in the region (or out of it) they have some options, like deploying the 19th Air Force. That was a specialized force that could deploy significant combat power anywhere in the world within 24 hours and be self sustaining for 30 days. However, their primary mission was deterrence, not combat (though they were fully combat capable).
The problem is letting a power that increasingly seen as a communist ally stomp all over one of its own allies, especially one seeking to establish the region in question as an independent state won't look good.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Mar 14, 2021 17:08:20 GMT
The US isn't exactly ducking out. They just don't want to get into a full scale war over someone else's colony. Unlike most of the countries in the region (or out of it) they have some options, like deploying the 19th Air Force. That was a specialized force that could deploy significant combat power anywhere in the world within 24 hours and be self sustaining for 30 days. However, their primary mission was deterrence, not combat (though they were fully combat capable).
The problem is letting a power that increasingly seen as a communist ally stomp all over one of its own allies, especially one seeking to establish the region in question as an independent state won't look good.
That's true, but the US, at least as far as I can find, had no plans to intervene militarily in West New Guinea in OTL either. Hell, Article 5 of the NATO Charter was written specifically for this exact scenario. So NATO wouldn't be forced to respond to attacks any member's colonies. |
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