ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Jan 13, 2021 11:33:04 GMT
I forgot to ask, but does KRI Irian make an appearance ITTL? For those that don't know the Indonesians operated a Soviet Sverdlov class heavy cruiser IOTL from 1963 to around 1972, when she was scrapped due to operating costs & lack of spare parts. Here is a picture of her.  That's still a few years into the future, but it is definitely something I could see Indonesia buying even if only as a prestige thing. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 13, 2021 15:46:51 GMT
I forgot to ask, but does KRI Irian make an appearance ITTL? For those that don't know the Indonesians operated a Soviet Sverdlov class heavy cruiser IOTL from 1963 to around 1972, when she was scrapped due to operating costs & lack of spare parts. Here is a picture of her. That's still a few years into the future, but it is definitely something I could see Indonesia buying even if only as a prestige thing. Well at least we now Indonesia will not get a carrier as the soviets do not have one at this moment. |
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Jan 13, 2021 17:18:27 GMT
That's still a few years into the future, but it is definitely something I could see Indonesia buying even if only as a prestige thing. Well at least we now Indonesia will not get a carrier as the soviets do not have one at this moment. Indonesia doesn't need a carrier. Anywhere they would want to project power to is within reach of their land based air power. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 13, 2021 17:19:53 GMT
Well at least we now Indonesia will not get a carrier as the soviets do not have one at this moment. Indonesia doesn't need a carrier. Anywhere they would want to project power to is within reach of their land based air power. A cruiser and heavy cruiser would be a good way to show their flag and brag. |
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Jan 13, 2021 17:56:51 GMT
Indonesia doesn't need a carrier. Anywhere they would want to project power to is within reach of their land based air power. A cruiser and heavy cruiser would be a good way to show their flag and brag. That's essentially why they bought the Sverdlov in the first place. Show the flag and have bragging rights about having the most powerful ship in Asia |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 13, 2021 17:58:30 GMT
A cruiser and heavy cruiser would be a good way to show their flag and brag. That's essentially why they bought the Sverdlov in the first place. Show the flag and have bragging rights about having the most powerful ship in Asia Well do not tell that to the Australians and their carrier, i think they can sink Sverdlov with their carrier planes. |
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Jan 13, 2021 18:04:36 GMT
That's essentially why they bought the Sverdlov in the first place. Show the flag and have bragging rights about having the most powerful ship in Asia Well do not tell that to the Australians and their carrier, i think they can sink Sverdlov with their carrier planes. Australia is not Asian. And the Sverdlov is the direct reason why Australia bought Skyhawks and retained a strike capability for Melbourne instead of transitioning her to a pure ASW carrier in OTL. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 13, 2021 19:15:46 GMT
Well do not tell that to the Australians and their carrier, i think they can sink Sverdlov with their carrier planes. Australia is not Asian. And the Sverdlov is the direct reason why Australia bought Skyhawks and retained a strike capability for Melbourne instead of transitioning her to a pure ASW carrier in OTL. But Australia is a neighbor of Indonesia who is arming itself to the teeth. |
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Jan 13, 2021 19:44:17 GMT
Well do not tell that to the Australians and their carrier, i think they can sink Sverdlov with their carrier planes. Australia is not Asian. And the Sverdlov is the direct reason why Australia bought Skyhawks and retained a strike capability for Melbourne instead of transitioning her to a pure ASW carrier in OTL. I'd not want to be aboard a Sverdlov against Skyhawks armed with AGM-62 Walleyes. A PGM with 825-pound shaped charge and a range of 16 nautical miles would be more than she could handle IF used with skill and determination. Aussie pilots are well known for having plenty of both to spare. 
Just look at the havoc caused by Argentinian A4s using conventional bombs (many unretarded) against ships armed with 1st and 2nd generation SAMs.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Jan 17, 2021 16:38:44 GMT
December 30, 1958
Washington, DC, USA
The McDonnel F4H is declared the winner of the competition for the Navy's next fleet defense interceptor. The primary factors given are the second crew member to reduce pilot workload, the greater versatility of the aircraft, the larger missile and bomb load and the twin engines of the aircraft. It is a stunning defeat for Vought as they had originally thought that their proposal would be accepted nearly by default. But the specter of the F7U, the "Gutless Cutlass," still reigned over Vought. And their new Super Crusader had seemed destined for problems as well, with a disturbing tendency to suffer compressor stalls at high mach numbers. Vought had tried several fixes during the fly-off, but by the time they had tried the variable intake ramp, the competition was nearly over and the Navy had already formed an unfavorable opinion of the fighter because of it. It had been the final nail in the coffin. The Navy wanted twin engines, two crew and a bigger bomb load, requirements that had changed dramatically from when Vought first designed the Crusader III. Combine all that with the compressor stalls, and the Navy just didn't think the better performance offered by the F8U-3 was worth it.
In the aftermath of the loss, Vought was extremely worried that they would lose the recently won competition from Australia too. In that regard, they got lucky. Australia still wanted the Super Crusader. Granted, most of the work would be done in Australia, but it would at least keep them on the cutting edge of fighter technology. With luck, they might even be able to sell the aircraft to other nations looking for a high performance fighter, particularly one that could operate off of aircraft carriers.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Jan 17, 2021 16:40:22 GMT
January 8, 1959
Jakarta, Indonesia
Indonesia formally severs diplomatic relations with The Netherlands. Citing the ongoing dispute over West Irian, the government of Indonesian President Sukarno states that all options are on the table at this point. Statements from the entire Soviet bloc supporting the move following within hours. All the statements strike a similar tone, decrying Western Imperialism and the belligerence of one of the NATO nations in refusing to negotiate in good faith with their former countrymen.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 17, 2021 16:42:15 GMT
January 8, 1959
Jakarta, IndonesiaIndonesia formally severs diplomatic relations with The Netherlands. Citing the ongoing dispute over West Irian, the government of Indonesian President Sukarno states that all options are on the table at this point. Statements from the entire Soviet bloc supporting the move following within hours. All the statements strike a similar tone, decrying Western Imperialism and the belligerence of one of the NATO nations in refusing to negotiate in good faith with their former countrymen.
Well even without the other comments that's often a precursor to war! I think things are going to get nasty unless someone makes clear they will come in on the Dutch side.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 17, 2021 16:46:39 GMT
January 8, 1959
Jakarta, IndonesiaIndonesia formally severs diplomatic relations with The Netherlands. Citing the ongoing dispute over West Irian, the government of Indonesian President Sukarno states that all options are on the table at this point. Statements from the entire Soviet bloc supporting the move following within hours. All the statements strike a similar tone, decrying Western Imperialism and the belligerence of one of the NATO nations in refusing to negotiate in good faith with their former countrymen. So will we see a full blown war, if so i need to dig this up from one of my older threads and say, Netherlands is screwed. This is from 1962 OTL but gives you the Netherlands is going to be outnumberd. The forces listed here are under the command of the Commander of the forces in Netherlands New Guinea (Dutch: Commandant Strijdkrachten Nieuw-Guinea, COSTRING) who had the following units under his control. Royal Netherlands Army6th Infantry Battalion (6IB)The six infantry companies belonging to consist mostly out of conscripts, they are position at the west-and southwest of New Guinea, the Royal Netherlands Marine Corps act as a mobile reserve located at Biak and Manokwari, the locations of the six infantry companies spread across Netherlands New Guinea was: Battalion-staff, supply and 3 companies (A, E en F) operating from Sorong. B companie operating from Kaimana. C ccompanie operating from Fak Fak. D companie operating from Merauke. The three outer companies (B, C en D) where placed under the operational command of the Commander of the forces in Netherlands New GuineaCOSTRING, the highest naval authority. Infantry Security Peloton The Infantry Security Peloton (Dutch: Infanterie Beveiligingspeloton) is a force of 40 men consisting of 3 tirailleurs groups each consisting of 2 Bren Groups and 3 snipers witch a mortars groups for support. Papuan Volunteer CorpsThe Papuan Volunteer Corps (Dutch: Papoea Vrijwilligers Korps, PVVK) is a corps consisting entirely of Papuans, formed on February 21st 1961. It was established to contribute to the defense of Netherlands New Guinea against the infiltration of the Indonesian Army. The corps serve as a semi-military police and consist of five pelotons of 37 men. Royal Netherlands Marine Corps5 infantry companies and 2 recon and intelligences-pelotons belonging to the 4th marine battalion. Korps CommandotroepenA detachment belonging to the Korps Commandotroepen (Special forces) located at navy airbase Biak. Air Defense Command for New Guinea (Dutch: Commando Luchtverdediging Nederlands Nieuw-Guinea) consisting of:322 (fighter) Squadron, 22 Hawker Hunter Mk.4 AD and Mk.6 AD fighters and two Alouette II SAR helicopters located at navy airbase Biak (Dutch: Marinevliegkamp Biak). 321 (Maritime patrol) Squadron, 12 Lockheed P-2 Neptune maritime patrol and ASW aircraft located at navy airbase Biak. 336 (Transport) Squadron, six Douglas DC-3 transport aircraft located at navy airbase Biak. 2 type 15 Mk IV raders located at navy airbase Biak A radar navigation system at Biak, and a reserve airstrip at Noemfoer. 7e Afdeling Lichte LuchtdoelartillerieN-peloton (equipped with Bofors 40 mm L/70 anti-aircraft guns) located at Hollandia. A detachment navy anti-air artillery at navy airbase Biak. |
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Jan 17, 2021 16:54:23 GMT
January 17, 1959
New York, New York, USA
Angry voices are heard shouting back and forth from inside one of the conference rooms in the United Nations Headquarters building. A last attempt at negotiations had been attempted by Indonesia to settle the West Irian dispute peacefully. The Netherlands, supported by the United States, the United Kingdom and Australia were unwilling to back down. They were tying their demands for compensation for the loss of their interests in Indonesia's natural resources to the dispute over West Irian. They would accept nothing less than the complete and total capitulation of Indonesia over the matter.
Dr Ali Sastroamidjojo, who had recently become Indonesian Ambassador to the United Nations after serving as Ambassador to the United States had, for one of the few times in his career, lost his temper. He had done everything in his power to keep the situation peaceful. But if the West was unwilling, so be it. He would inform his President that negotiations were pointless.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Jan 17, 2021 16:56:52 GMT
January 8, 1959
Jakarta, IndonesiaIndonesia formally severs diplomatic relations with The Netherlands. Citing the ongoing dispute over West Irian, the government of Indonesian President Sukarno states that all options are on the table at this point. Statements from the entire Soviet bloc supporting the move following within hours. All the statements strike a similar tone, decrying Western Imperialism and the belligerence of one of the NATO nations in refusing to negotiate in good faith with their former countrymen.
Well even without the other comments that's often a precursor to war! I think things are going to get nasty unless someone makes clear they will come in on the Dutch side.
"Nasty" is putting it polietly. Indonesia is pissed at the way they've been treated in TTL. |
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