ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Jan 6, 2021 17:30:05 GMT
At present, only the bomber version is being purchased. The dedicated reconnaissance version didn't come about for a few years yet. They may be interested in buying some bolt on kits for their fleet though once they are developed. So will it be actually used on the carriers in the future ore might it just end up being a land based bomber. Oh god no. The Vigilante is far to large to operate off an Essex class. AFAIK, the A-5 never flew operationally off either the Essex or Midway class. Fully bombed and fueled up, they had a max weight of 79,400 pounds. The C11 cats on those classes would struggle getting the aircraft to 100 knots. They had a power off stall speed of 147 knots at that weight. Even going flat out, the ship can only get them to about 130 knots. In an emergency, it could trap on the carrier and launch off of it it was clean with a light fuel load. But that would be in an emergency only. The Vigilante will be land based only.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Jan 6, 2021 17:30:37 GMT
November 29, 1958 Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia
The Vought F8U-3E Crusader III is declared the winner of the Australian fighter competition. The results from the United States Navy fly off had proved decisive for both the Royal Australian Air Force and for the Fleet Air Arm. While some concerns were raised about the pilot workload and the possibility that the United States Navy may not choose the aircraft for their own needs, the projected costs and performance advantages of the Super Crusader were just too good to ignore. Alongside that announcement, the Department of Defense announced that they had entered into final negotiations for the firm purchase of one hundred fighters with options for a further forty. As part of the negotiations, Australia wished to conduct final assembly of the aircraft at the Government Aircraft Factory and manufacture certain parts of the fighter locally to provide jobs in Australia and a secure supply of spare parts for their new fighter force.
Separately, the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation entered into negotiations with Pratt & Whitney to license produce the J75-P-5A engine for the fighters. Surprisingly, this negotiation would prove more difficult than for the fighters themselves. As part of Australia's stated interest in buying the North American Vigilante, CAC had also requested a license to build the competing General Electric J79-GE-8 engines. Though the two engines were in different thrust classes, they were built by two very antagonistic manufacturers. It would take some very astute negotiations along with some very strong safeguards to ensure corporate trade secrets would not be accidentally given to the wrong company.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 6, 2021 17:34:14 GMT
November 29, 1958 Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, AustraliaThe Vought F8U-3E Crusader III is declared the winner of the Australian fighter competition. A good choice i think, which fighter was the runner up.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Jan 6, 2021 17:40:52 GMT
November 29, 1958 Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, AustraliaThe Vought F8U-3E Crusader III is declared the winner of the Australian fighter competition. A good choice i think, which fighter was the runner up. The Phantom. And it was very close. The decision to buy the Crusader III came down to the eleventh hour and even then there are some within the DOD that feel Australia would have been better served by buying the Phantom which projected to have more room for growth and it would have a common engine with the Vigilante. But the significantly lower purchase and operating cost of the Crusader III was just too big a positive to overlook.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 6, 2021 17:44:18 GMT
A good choice i think, which fighter was the runner up. The Phantom. And it was very close. The decision to buy the Crusader III came down to the eleventh hour and even then there are some within the DOD that feel Australia would have been better served by buying the Phantom which projected to have more room for growth and it would have a common engine with the Vigilante. But the significantly lower purchase and operating cost of the Crusader III was just too big a positive to overlook. So do we now the number of Crusader IIIs be bought and will the be build in the United States ore in Australia by, lets say de Havilland Australia.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Jan 6, 2021 17:47:29 GMT
The Phantom. And it was very close. The decision to buy the Crusader III came down to the eleventh hour and even then there are some within the DOD that feel Australia would have been better served by buying the Phantom which projected to have more room for growth and it would have a common engine with the Vigilante. But the significantly lower purchase and operating cost of the Crusader III was just too big a positive to overlook. So do we now the number of Crusader IIIs be bought and will the be build in the United States ore in Australia by, lets say de Havilland Australia. 100 for now. And if the RAN gets their new carrier, another 40 or so for the FAA. And Australia wants to build them at the GAF in Melbourne. Well, they want to conduct final assembly there with some manufacturing of specific parts, the ones that are most likely to wear out and need replacement over the service life of the aircraft.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 6, 2021 17:50:39 GMT
So do we now the number of Crusader IIIs be bought and will the be build in the United States ore in Australia by, lets say de Havilland Australia. 100 for now. And if the RAN gets their new carrier, another 40 or so for the FAA. And Australia wants to build them at the GAF in Melbourne. Well, they want to conduct final assembly there with some manufacturing of specific parts, the ones that are most likely to wear out and need replacement over the service life of the aircraft. So we call it the GAF Crusader III then.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Jan 6, 2021 17:52:58 GMT
100 for now. And if the RAN gets their new carrier, another 40 or so for the FAA. And Australia wants to build them at the GAF in Melbourne. Well, they want to conduct final assembly there with some manufacturing of specific parts, the ones that are most likely to wear out and need replacement over the service life of the aircraft. So we call it the GAF Crusader III then. Not quite. The majority of the aircraft will still be built by Vought in Dallas. Only select parts will be built in Australia with final assembly also occurring there
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 6, 2021 17:58:37 GMT
So we call it the GAF Crusader III then. Not quite. The majority of the aircraft will still be built by Vought in Dallas. Only select parts will be built in Australia with final assembly also occurring there So how long before the first Crusader III goes into service.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Jan 6, 2021 18:01:32 GMT
Not quite. The majority of the aircraft will still be built by Vought in Dallas. Only select parts will be built in Australia with final assembly also occurring there So how long before the first Crusader III goes into service. Well, in OTL, the Phantom didn't enter service until June, 1961 after winning the fly off in December, 1958. So probably around that date. Maybe late 61 or early 62 depending on how quickly the GAF can get their production line up and running.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 6, 2021 18:03:12 GMT
Maybe late 61 or early 62 depending on how quickly the GAF can get their production line up and running. Wich will all have to come from the United states i expect.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Jan 6, 2021 18:15:33 GMT
Maybe late 61 or early 62 depending on how quickly the GAF can get their production line up and running. Wich will all have to come from the United states i expect. The tooling almost certainly. Though Vought did complete 5 airframes with I believe either the 3rd or 4th one being very close to production standard. And IIRC, they had another 13 in various stages of construction. So it's entirely possible that they could deliver those aircraft to the RAAF for them to begin type training and getting experience in the fighter before the local production comes on line
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 6, 2021 18:47:18 GMT
Wich will all have to come from the United states i expect. The tooling almost certainly. Though Vought did complete 5 airframes with I believe either the 3rd or 4th one being very close to production standard. And IIRC, they had another 13 in various stages of construction. So it's entirely possible that they could deliver those aircraft to the RAAF for them to begin type training and getting experience in the fighter before the local production comes on line I would assume the RAAF would send pilots to train in the United States.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Jan 6, 2021 18:49:19 GMT
The tooling almost certainly. Though Vought did complete 5 airframes with I believe either the 3rd or 4th one being very close to production standard. And IIRC, they had another 13 in various stages of construction. So it's entirely possible that they could deliver those aircraft to the RAAF for them to begin type training and getting experience in the fighter before the local production comes on line I would assume the RAAF would send pilots to train in the United States. Probably a few to Vought, yeah. I don't think they'd send a lot though. Probably just a cadre to train the trainers.
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Post by La Rouge Beret on Jan 6, 2021 23:52:33 GMT
November 2, 1958 Brooklyn, NY, USA
The former Leyte enters drydock at the New York Naval Shipyard to begin her overhaul in preparation for her transfer to Argentina. She is scheduled to be brought up to the same SCB-27C/125A configuration as Oriskany and Lake Champlain. Additionally, the powerplant is to be overhauled and new, automated control hardware is to be installed to reduce manning requirements for the smaller Argentine Navy. The overhaul is planned to take between twenty-eight and thirty-two months. What automations do you envisage to reduce her manning requirements?
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