ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Nov 19, 2020 18:51:40 GMT
August 2, 1958 Jakarta, Java, IndonesiaThe first flight of four TU-16s land at Iswahyudi Airbase. The bombers are flown by Soviet training officers who will remain in Indonesia for the next year training the Indonesian flight crews. The Badger strategic bombers provide a marked increase in capability over Indonesia's current fleet of Beagle light bombers. Indonesia has 28 Badgers on order, twelve land attack bombers, twelve anti-ship bombers equipped to launch anti-ship missiles and four unarmed trainers. The four aircraft that just landed are the trainers. The remaining bombers will arrive over the next six months. The flight of bombers also serve as navigators for the first MiG-19s sold to Indonesia with each bomber "escorting" four fighters. Indonesia plans to have one squadron of MiG-19s and one squadron of TU-16s operational by May, 1959. these big boys will cause a lot of problems for the Netherlands and Australians if they are ever unleashed. There is about to be a great deal of screaming in Canberra, Singapore, London and Washington
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 19, 2020 18:54:51 GMT
these big boys will cause a lot of problems for the Netherlands and Australians if they are ever unleashed. There is about to be a great deal of screaming in Canberra, Singapore, London and Washington And what about Moscow and Beijing, are they happy that they can cause tensions in the region.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Nov 19, 2020 19:18:08 GMT
There is about to be a great deal of screaming in Canberra, Singapore, London and Washington And what about Moscow and Beijing, are they happy that they can cause tensions in the region. Thrilled. They're causing massive headaches for the West and drawing Indonesia into their orbit instead of being non aligned and western leaning
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Post by La Rouge Beret on Nov 19, 2020 21:58:38 GMT
The addition of the Tu 16 fleet complimented by Mig 19s means that the balance of power calculus tips dramatically towards the Indonesians forcing several powers to push forward their acquisition programs. Coincidentally it also allows me to create a few 'what if' aircraft model kits over Christmas.
Also, Air Chief Marshall Scherger and Vice Admiral Roy Dowling had complimentary views. For instance Scherger held that the RAAF would be better served by having more lower end aircraft that could operate from the rougher landing strips dotted around the island archipelago and into SE Asia, with the USAF fielding the more advanced capability aircraft. I suspect that viewpoint might shift here given the more advanced warfighting capability from the Indonesians and Dowling was a pretty firm proponent of the Fleet Air Arm having a fast jet capability. Indeed he damn well nearly resigned in protest, when the Menzies government considered axing the FAA in the late 1950s.
The other item that I thought that I would raise is that I was discussing the RAN acquiring an Essex class with a few shipmates and their counter suggestion was HMS Victorious (Illustrious class). You know that would also work to be honest and I might have to include in that one of my own TLs.
Anyway BZ and keep up the good work.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Nov 19, 2020 23:06:47 GMT
The addition of the Tu 16 fleet complimented by Mig 19s means that the balance of power calculus tips dramatically towards the Indonesians forcing several powers to push forward their acquisition programs. Coincidentally it also allows me to create a few 'what if' aircraft model kits over Christmas. Also, Air Chief Marshall Scherger and Vice Admiral Roy Dowling had complimentary views. For instance Scherger held that the RAAF would be better served by having more lower end aircraft that could operate from the rougher landing strips dotted around the island archipelago and into SE Asia, with the USAF fielding the more advanced capability aircraft. I suspect that viewpoint might shift here given the more advanced warfighting capability from the Indonesians and Dowling was a pretty firm proponent of the Fleet Air Arm having a fast jet capability. Indeed he damn well nearly resigned in protest, when the Menzies government considered axing the FAA in the late 1950s. The other item that I thought that I would raise is that I was discussing the RAN acquiring an Essex class with a few shipmates and their counter suggestion was HMS Victorious (Illustrious class). You know that would also work to be honest and I might have to include in that one of my own TLs. Anyway BZ and keep up the good work. Thank you. Indonesia's military build up is ringing major alarm bells all across the region. Particularly in the Australia, New Zealand, the Philippines and Japan. And because of their interests in the region, the United States. All the militaries in the region are taking a very hard look at their Air Forces and Navies. In particular the state of their fighter forces. The RAAF and FAA are in a tough spot here. They need a fighter advanced enough and capable enough to hold its own in battle, but cheap enough to buy them in sufficient numbers.
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Post by La Rouge Beret on Nov 19, 2020 23:17:42 GMT
The long term implications to the region are stark, particularly if the Indonesians also acquire a Sverdlov Heavy Cruiser as they did IOTL. If Konfrontasi still occurs ITTL, we might see Soviet trained frogmen attempting to attack the Naval Base at Sembawang in Singapore. That might make a damn fine chapter update . Agreed about the pickle that the RAAF and the FAA face, given the recent experience with fighting the IJN & the IJA defending the forward approaches will be at the forefront of the mind. There would also be an expansion of fixed SAMs around key points in Northern Australia, so rather then the single battery of Bloodhound missiles there might be more or even introducing American Nike missiles. BTW hopefully you recognise my handle from our previous conversations at Alternate History about this subject.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Nov 19, 2020 23:54:49 GMT
The long term implications to the region are stark, particularly if the Indonesians also acquire a Sverdlov Heavy Cruiser as they did IOTL. If Konfrontasi still occurs ITTL, we might see Soviet trained frogmen attempting to attack the Naval Base at Sembawang in Singapore. That might make a damn fine chapter update . Agreed about the pickle that the RAAF and the FAA face, given the recent experience with fighting the IJN & the IJA defending the forward approaches will be at the forefront of the mind. There would also be an expansion of fixed SAMs around key points in Northern Australia, so rather then the single battery of Bloodhound missiles there might be more or even introducing American Nike missiles. BTW hopefully you recognise my handle from our previous conversations at Alternate History about this subject. Yes, of course I do! Glad to see you here! Yes, Australia and the UK will have some major concerns that need to be addressed. In particular how they can defend Papua New Guinea and Sarawak/Borneo. Indonesia has long claimed those areas as theirs, so that is a major flash point. Particularly if Indonesia feels they have a significant military edge in the region.
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Post by La Rouge Beret on Nov 20, 2020 1:38:18 GMT
If you want to write a scene based in Sarawak, I can share a story that my Grandfather told me about his experiences fighting in the jungle during Konfrontasi. Whereas PNG in this scenario might remain part of Australia for longer then 1975 in this TL, so that the new country can withstand any potential Indonesian aggression. I wonder if this would lead to perhaps NZ basing one of their Infantry Battalions in PNG rather than Singapore as they did historically.
With the Philippines they also have historical claims on northern Indonesia that flow from the Sultanate of Sulu, which would mean that the Southern Philippines could be more important and autonomous ITTL. Perhaps taking away from their insurgency and historical grievances with the Philippines government. Although a communist leaning Indonesia means that the New People's Army is probably better supplied, as are the Communist rebels in Malaysia.
See you've piqued my interest as this area attracts too few TLs IMHO.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Nov 20, 2020 2:46:16 GMT
If you want to write a scene based in Sarawak, I can share a story that my Grandfather told me about his experiences fighting in the jungle during Konfrontasi. Whereas PNG in this scenario might remain part of Australia for longer then 1975 in this TL, so that the new country can withstand any potential Indonesian aggression. I wonder if this would lead to perhaps NZ basing one of their Infantry Battalions in PNG rather than Singapore as they did historically. With the Philippines they also have historical claims on northern Indonesia that flow from the Sultanate of Sulu, which would mean that the Southern Philippines could be more important and autonomous ITTL. Perhaps taking away from their insurgency and historical grievances with the Philippines government. Although a communist leaning Indonesia means that the New People's Army is probably better supplied, as are the Communist rebels in Malaysia. See you've piqued my interest as this area attracts too few TLs IMHO. I would love to hear that story. And yes, a more belligerent Indonesia will have massive and wide ranging impacts in the region. Particularly in regards to military readiness and independence movements in the region.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 20, 2020 11:23:36 GMT
And what about Moscow and Beijing, are they happy that they can cause tensions in the region. Thrilled. They're causing massive headaches for the West and drawing Indonesia into their orbit instead of being non aligned and western leaning
Just a thought. What effect would this have on the non-aligned movement from a prominent member clearly connecting itself to the communist bloc? Could it mean others distance themselves from Indonesia and hence possibly move a bit closer to the west, at least in avoiding a major conflict in the region. Possibly the reaction of India. Or has the CIA's foul-up meant that many in the movement see it as Indonesia reacting to hostile actions from the US?
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Nov 20, 2020 12:40:53 GMT
Thrilled. They're causing massive headaches for the West and drawing Indonesia into their orbit instead of being non aligned and western leaning
Just a thought. What effect would this have on the non-aligned movement from a prominent member clearly connecting itself to the communist bloc? Could it mean others distance themselves from Indonesia and hence possibly move a bit closer to the west, at least in avoiding a major conflict in the region. Possibly the reaction of India. Or has the CIA's foul-up meant that many in the movement see it as Indonesia reacting to hostile actions from the US?
A little bit of a both. Some see it as the US reacting to Sukarno clearly moving to the left before the CIA intervention while others see it as Indonesia reacting to a belligerent United States. India is not much changed at the moment. Oh, there is some outrage at the United States, but India doesn't have a reason to move closer to anyone right now. As for how this affects the non-aligned movement as a whole, so far its not really different from OTL. Indonesia isn't really doing anything that they didn't do in OTL, it's just a bit earlier. There are some changes, such as the more belligerent relationship between Indonesia and the West.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 20, 2020 16:26:25 GMT
August 2, 1958 Jakarta, Java, IndonesiaThe first flight of four TU-16s land at Iswahyudi Airbase. The bombers are flown by Soviet training officers who will remain in Indonesia for the next year training the Indonesian flight crews. The Badger strategic bombers provide a marked increase in capability over Indonesia's current fleet of Beagle light bombers. Indonesia has 28 Badgers on order, twelve land attack bombers, twelve anti-ship bombers equipped to launch anti-ship missiles and four unarmed trainers. The four aircraft that just landed are the trainers. The remaining bombers will arrive over the next six months. The flight of bombers also serve as navigators for the first MiG-19s sold to Indonesia with each bomber "escorting" four fighters. Indonesia plans to have one squadron of MiG-19s and one squadron of TU-16s operational by May, 1959. Are all TU-16s operated by the Indonesian Air Force ore are the anti-shipping TU-16s operated by the Indonesian Navy .
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Nov 20, 2020 17:17:20 GMT
August 2, 1958 Jakarta, Java, IndonesiaThe first flight of four TU-16s land at Iswahyudi Airbase. The bombers are flown by Soviet training officers who will remain in Indonesia for the next year training the Indonesian flight crews. The Badger strategic bombers provide a marked increase in capability over Indonesia's current fleet of Beagle light bombers. Indonesia has 28 Badgers on order, twelve land attack bombers, twelve anti-ship bombers equipped to launch anti-ship missiles and four unarmed trainers. The four aircraft that just landed are the trainers. The remaining bombers will arrive over the next six months. The flight of bombers also serve as navigators for the first MiG-19s sold to Indonesia with each bomber "escorting" four fighters. Indonesia plans to have one squadron of MiG-19s and one squadron of TU-16s operational by May, 1959. Are all TU-16s operated by the Indonesian Air Force ore are the anti-shipping TU-16s operated by the Indonesian Navy . I haven't decided yet tbh
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Post by La Rouge Beret on Nov 20, 2020 22:16:42 GMT
The Indonesian Navy aligns closer with the Soviet practice, but considering the developing nature of Indonesia at the time I would have the Air Force operate them. Unless you want interservice politics to raise its ugly head.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Nov 20, 2020 22:41:11 GMT
The Indonesian Navy aligns closer with the Soviet practice, but considering the developing nature of Indonesia at the time I would have the Air Force operate them. Unless you want interservice politics to raise its ugly head. In truth, that's the direction I was leaning, but hadn't fully decided yet. It just makes more sense for the Air Force to operate them as they actually have fast jet experience right now while the Navy does not.
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