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Post by alternatehistoryfox on Nov 27, 2020 20:44:20 GMT
Then again, he saw human rights and democracy as contradicting things, at least from what I've read. Not only that, but he also saw government as a force of good as well, as a certain novel about a scientist working with 'time window' tech can attest to.
Most people who want democracy by definition see government as a force for good. It can be abused, even under a democracy - hence the famous meme about the condition for evil to triumph - but its a lot easier under any alternative system. Some form of government is inevitable so a well run democratic one is generally considered the best - at least unless your from an autocratic background [Xi, Putin etc].
In terms of time window I can think of a couple of stories - The Ends of Eternity, where attempts to do good do backfire in limiting humanities future and another, short story of which I can't remember the name. Where an historian of Carthaginian history is frustrated by the delays in access to a time viewer and ends up getting someone to develop an alternative only to find out too late why the government is seeking to suppress the technology.
It was the latter that I was talking about. Still, Asimov basically was very anti-democracy in his works despite his pro-human rights attitude, which would probably grate on Hollywood horribly. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 28, 2020 11:42:54 GMT
Most people who want democracy by definition see government as a force for good. It can be abused, even under a democracy - hence the famous meme about the condition for evil to triumph - but its a lot easier under any alternative system. Some form of government is inevitable so a well run democratic one is generally considered the best - at least unless your from an autocratic background [Xi, Putin etc].
In terms of time window I can think of a couple of stories - The Ends of Eternity, where attempts to do good do backfire in limiting humanities future and another, short story of which I can't remember the name. Where an historian of Carthaginian history is frustrated by the delays in access to a time viewer and ends up getting someone to develop an alternative only to find out too late why the government is seeking to suppress the technology.
It was the latter that I was talking about. Still, Asimov basically was very anti-democracy in his works despite his pro-human rights attitude, which would probably grate on Hollywood horribly.
We will have to disagree on that.
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Post by alternatehistoryfox on Nov 28, 2020 13:00:46 GMT
It was the latter that I was talking about. Still, Asimov basically was very anti-democracy in his works despite his pro-human rights attitude, which would probably grate on Hollywood horribly.
We will have to disagree on that.
History has a tendency to disagree in that regard. There is a reason that I've been saying that Hobbes is rather close to the money... |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 28, 2020 14:48:05 GMT
We will have to disagree on that.
History has a tendency to disagree in that regard. There is a reason that I've been saying that Hobbes is rather close to the money...
I think we're talking about different things here. I was referring to your suggestion that Asimov was anti-democratic in his writings not how accurate or not Hobbs's view of the universe is.
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Post by alternatehistoryfox on Nov 28, 2020 15:28:43 GMT
History has a tendency to disagree in that regard. There is a reason that I've been saying that Hobbes is rather close to the money...
I think we're talking about different things here. I was referring to your suggestion that Asimov was anti-democratic in his writings not how accurate or not Hobbs's view of the universe is.
Sorry, brainfart. But still, Asimov was fairly anti-democratic from my readings. Then again, I've only read a decent-sized but still small portion of his repituare. However, Forward the Foundation is one of the novels that display some of Asimov's anto-democracy leanings... |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 28, 2020 16:37:34 GMT
I think we're talking about different things here. I was referring to your suggestion that Asimov was anti-democratic in his writings not how accurate or not Hobbs's view of the universe is.
Sorry, brainfart. But still, Asimov was fairly anti-democratic from my readings. Then again, I've only read a decent-sized but still small portion of his repituare. However, Forward the Foundation is one of the novels that display some of Asimov's anto-democracy leanings...
I read a lot as a youngster, including many of his science short stories and articles and get the opposite viewpoint.
I haven't read that last book but from its description on Wiki it does sound distinctly depressing as everything seems to fall apart for Seldon - possibly in some way copying his own sense of his decline towards death? There is the problem with the Foundation series in that the basic position of the 2nd Foundation with its mind control aspects does undermine the idea of individual liberty.
A lot of the stories he has in the core of his career has the central characters especially facing moral dilemmas and at least one early story devolves around the destruction of an interstellar empire with the key factor being the location of an ancient document which turns out to be the US Declaration of Independence - or possibly its constitution? Can't remember the story as a hell of a long time ago.
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Post by alternatehistoryfox on Nov 28, 2020 19:23:36 GMT
Sorry, brainfart. But still, Asimov was fairly anti-democratic from my readings. Then again, I've only read a decent-sized but still small portion of his repituare. However, Forward the Foundation is one of the novels that display some of Asimov's anto-democracy leanings...
I read a lot as a youngster, including many of his science short stories and articles and get the opposite viewpoint.
I haven't read that last book but from its description on Wiki it does sound distinctly depressing as everything seems to fall apart for Seldon - possibly in some way copying his own sense of his decline towards death? There is the problem with the Foundation series in that the basic position of the 2nd Foundation with its mind control aspects does undermine the idea of individual liberty.
A lot of the stories he has in the core of his career has the central characters especially facing moral dilemmas and at least one early story devolves around the destruction of an interstellar empire with the key factor being the location of an ancient document which turns out to be the US Declaration of Independence - or possibly its constitution? Can't remember the story as a hell of a long time ago.
My first genuine read of a fiction novel was The Foundation Trilogy, a book that my mom gave me to read and I still have to this day. My mom knew that I loved Star Trek and Star Wars and Babylon 5 so she dug it out and gave it to me back in the 7th grade. Read it all in three months and knocked out an entire school year's worth of required reading with extra credit. Then proceeded to read a book about Assembly (the computer language). Hell, my mom gave me her entire collection of Asimov books after that, mostly the robot books. Then again, given that reality is telling us that free will is an illusion that we tell ourselves to sleep at night... |
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