Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jul 26, 2020 22:46:50 GMT
It started off as a silly little science-fantasy whose creator thought it would flop. But with its story of a farm boy with a greater calling, a princess in the clutches of evil, a cynical space smuggler with a beastly first mate, and a tug of war between a liberal-democratic Rebellion and a tyrannical, galaxy-spanning Empire, Star Wars generated a box-office blowout for the ages and became one of the most iconic movies in American history. Not only has its success spawned two more films as well as a Prequel and Sequel Trilogy since then, Star Wars has also come to encompass an array of comics, novels, encyclopedias, games, toys, and other media to keep its large fan base occupied forty-plus years after its original release. So, with the vast breadth of media under its belt and its sheer influence on pop culture still at play in 2020, it warrants the question: what if Star Wars were never released?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 27, 2020 10:12:30 GMT
Gut feeling is that Star Trek movies and spins off would be more prominent and that sooner or later some other alternative to Star Wars would get a lot of attention. Obviously whatever gems there was in the SW story there was a market and something else would fill in part of the gap. Possibly not as dramatically or long lasting as SWs but likely to have something.
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1bigrich
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Post by 1bigrich on Jul 27, 2020 15:03:13 GMT
Funny, that's the premise of the web comic Darths & Droids darthsanddroids.net/I think the classic Battlestar Galactica would capture the imagination. It would last several seasons, and wouldn't have US Media calling it a "Star Wars rip-off", which it clearly wasn't. Glen A Larson had been pitching the idea long before Star Wars came out. The success of a science fiction show still inspires others, including Star Trek - The Motion Picture. Glen Larson's Buck Rogers in the 25th Century will last several seasons as well, having the mark of his previous success on it. We will still have a Star Teck - The Next Generation and Bablyon 5 and other science fiction movies and series. My thoughts, |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 27, 2020 15:06:06 GMT
Still the number 1 space opera series to beat in my eyes, it was perfect and dam anybody who ever wants to reboot it. |
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1bigrich
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Post by 1bigrich on Jul 27, 2020 15:19:15 GMT
Still the number 1 space opera series to beat in my eyes, it was perfect and dam anybody who ever wants to reboot it.
Strazynski said due to the nature of episodic television, he wrote an 'out' for every character. So when Andrea Thompson left the series, Pat Tallman returned; her character carried the telepath story line. But I've often wondered what the series might have been had Michael O'Hare not left and been replaced by FranK Buck Bruce Boxleitner . Maybe War Without End would have been the series finale, with Sinclair and De'Lenn going back in time on Babylon 4?
But I agree. As the British Magazine Dream Works said of the series, "Our last, best hope for intelligent Space Opera!"
Regards,
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jul 27, 2020 15:49:20 GMT
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 27, 2020 15:51:40 GMT
Not much going on there. Some movies and series that came in the wake of Star Wars will not come. |
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Post by alternatehistoryfox on Nov 25, 2020 6:14:52 GMT
It must be noted that, when you actually look at it from a grander scale viewpoint, Star Wars ensured that the SciFi genre went mainstream. One of the possibilities of what could replace Star Wars is probably Battletech of all things, which is best elevator described as 'A Song of Ice and Fire IN SPACE! With giant robots' (although it would pre date ASoIaF by several decades)... although that would get rid of most of the nuance. Although, to make a tabletop game become a TV or movie series would be hard as hell... ... although you could use an out that was later used for the cartoon series: it's a low-budget propaganda show/movie by [insert faction here's capital] broadcasting corporation.  |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 25, 2020 15:47:07 GMT
It must be noted that, when you actually look at it from a grander scale viewpoint, Star Wars ensured that the SciFi genre went mainstream. One of the possibilities of what could replace Star Wars is probably Battletech of all things, which is best elevator described as 'A Song of Ice and Fire IN SPACE! With giant robots' (although it would pre date ASoIaF by several decades)... although that would get rid of most of the nuance. Although, to make a tabletop game become a TV or movie series would be hard as hell... ... although you could use an out that was later used for the cartoon series: it's a low-budget propaganda show/movie by [insert faction here's capital] broadcasting corporation.
Now there's an interesting idea. I would have thought say Star Trek would continue doing that or possibly some form of Battlestar Galactica but Battletech could be an intriguing prospect. Not sure how you would get a wider universe out of it but a TV series or set of films would probably centre around one team of fighters and their interactions and advantures. Although of course if the producers make the error of always having them winning that would probably weaken interest somewhat.
Steve
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Post by alternatehistoryfox on Nov 25, 2020 17:07:57 GMT
It must be noted that, when you actually look at it from a grander scale viewpoint, Star Wars ensured that the SciFi genre went mainstream. One of the possibilities of what could replace Star Wars is probably Battletech of all things, which is best elevator described as 'A Song of Ice and Fire IN SPACE! With giant robots' (although it would pre date ASoIaF by several decades)... although that would get rid of most of the nuance. Although, to make a tabletop game become a TV or movie series would be hard as hell... ... although you could use an out that was later used for the cartoon series: it's a low-budget propaganda show/movie by [insert faction here's capital] broadcasting corporation.
Now there's an interesting idea. I would have thought say Star Trek would continue doing that or possibly some form of Battlestar Galactica but Battletech could be an intriguing prospect. Not sure how you would get a wider universe out of it but a TV series or set of films would probably centre around one team of fighters and their interactions and advantures. Although of course if the producers make the error of always having them winning that would probably weaken interest somewhat.
Steve
The thing about Battletech is that it was a bunch of Americans going 'hey, the Japanese have shown us that giant robots work as part of a universe, let's make our own' and made a tabletop game which quickly evolved into a grand universe. So, in reality, you'll have an extremely hard (in comparison to the majority of SciFi of the period) scifi show and would probably kickstart the hard-scifi visual media genre. Maybe even get Isaac Asimov's Foundation series to the big screen. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 25, 2020 19:29:31 GMT
Now there's an interesting idea. I would have thought say Star Trek would continue doing that or possibly some form of Battlestar Galactica but Battletech could be an intriguing prospect. Not sure how you would get a wider universe out of it but a TV series or set of films would probably centre around one team of fighters and their interactions and advantures. Although of course if the producers make the error of always having them winning that would probably weaken interest somewhat.
Steve
The thing about Battletech is that it was a bunch of Americans going 'hey, the Japanese have shown us that giant robots work as part of a universe, let's make our own' and made a tabletop game which quickly evolved into a grand universe. So, in reality, you'll have an extremely hard (in comparison to the majority of SciFi of the period) scifi show and would probably kickstart the hard-scifi visual media genre. Maybe even get Isaac Asimov's Foundation series to the big screen.
Now that would be interesting. Although there could be some doubt over the latter books in the series as to their suggestion of the ultimate destiny of life being a galactic Gaia sentience. Mind you Issac was around until 1992 so he could also have some input here if the series started being produced say in the mid-late 80s.
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Post by alternatehistoryfox on Nov 25, 2020 19:37:30 GMT
The thing about Battletech is that it was a bunch of Americans going 'hey, the Japanese have shown us that giant robots work as part of a universe, let's make our own' and made a tabletop game which quickly evolved into a grand universe. So, in reality, you'll have an extremely hard (in comparison to the majority of SciFi of the period) scifi show and would probably kickstart the hard-scifi visual media genre. Maybe even get Isaac Asimov's Foundation series to the big screen.
Now that would be interesting. Although there could be some doubt over the latter books in the series as to their suggestion of the ultimate destiny of life being a galactic Gaia sentience. Mind you Issac was around until 1992 so he could also have some input here if the series started being produced say in the mid-late 80s.
The thing is that Asimov was oh so anti-Democracy, one of the few instances that democracy in the series gets thrown around it always gets shut down hard because their history tells that it always short and ends brutally. That wouldn't go over all that well with the political realm... |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 26, 2020 10:14:19 GMT
Now that would be interesting. Although there could be some doubt over the latter books in the series as to their suggestion of the ultimate destiny of life being a galactic Gaia sentience. Mind you Issac was around until 1992 so he could also have some input here if the series started being produced say in the mid-late 80s.
The thing is that Asimov was oh so anti-Democracy, one of the few instances that democracy in the series gets thrown around it always gets shut down hard because their history tells that it always short and ends brutally. That wouldn't go over all that well with the political realm...
In the Foundation series yes as that was distinctly grim-dark as we would call it nowadays. I think it was more he preferred a universal state to avoid internal conflict and hadn't thought though the problems that would cause in terms of human rights. I suspect to avoid the idea of a very long lasting - possibly even just about eternal galactic empire guided by psychohistory - was why he thought up the galactic Gaia but I always found that a repulsive idea personally. However reading more of his work he was definitely a liberal and supporter of human rights.
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Post by alternatehistoryfox on Nov 26, 2020 14:32:22 GMT
The thing is that Asimov was oh so anti-Democracy, one of the few instances that democracy in the series gets thrown around it always gets shut down hard because their history tells that it always short and ends brutally. That wouldn't go over all that well with the political realm...
In the Foundation series yes as that was distinctly grim-dark as we would call it nowadays. I think it was more he preferred a universal state to avoid internal conflict and hadn't thought though the problems that would cause in terms of human rights. I suspect to avoid the idea of a very long lasting - possibly even just about eternal galactic empire guided by psychohistory - was why he thought up the galactic Gaia but I always found that a repulsive idea personally. However reading more of his work he was definitely a liberal and supporter of human rights.
Then again, he saw human rights and democracy as contradicting things, at least from what I've read. Not only that, but he also saw government as a force of good as well, as a certain novel about a scientist working with 'time window' tech can attest to. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 27, 2020 12:54:23 GMT
In the Foundation series yes as that was distinctly grim-dark as we would call it nowadays. I think it was more he preferred a universal state to avoid internal conflict and hadn't thought though the problems that would cause in terms of human rights. I suspect to avoid the idea of a very long lasting - possibly even just about eternal galactic empire guided by psychohistory - was why he thought up the galactic Gaia but I always found that a repulsive idea personally. However reading more of his work he was definitely a liberal and supporter of human rights.
Then again, he saw human rights and democracy as contradicting things, at least from what I've read. Not only that, but he also saw government as a force of good as well, as a certain novel about a scientist working with 'time window' tech can attest to.
Most people who want democracy by definition see government as a force for good. It can be abused, even under a democracy - hence the famous meme about the condition for evil to triumph - but its a lot easier under any alternative system. Some form of government is inevitable so a well run democratic one is generally considered the best - at least unless your from an autocratic background [Xi, Putin etc].
In terms of time window I can think of a couple of stories - The Ends of Eternity, where attempts to do good do backfire in limiting humanities future and another, short story of which I can't remember the name. Where an historian of Carthaginian history is frustrated by the delays in access to a time viewer and ends up getting someone to develop an alternative only to find out too late why the government is seeking to suppress the technology.
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