lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 14, 2020 13:56:24 GMT
What if: German Plan to Invade Canada, World War I
When World War I broke out in August 1914, and the British Empire marched off to war, it was by no means certain that the United States would go to battle against Germany, given their isolationist politics and the large number of German immigrants living in America.
Even before the war had begun, Imperial German military officials planned to take advantage of the many narrow river crossings between the U.S. and Canada. The crossing at Cornwall and the proximity to Ottawa and Canada’s largest city Montreal made the Eastern Ontario section of the St. Lawrence River, with its canals, railways and railway bridges, particularly vulnerable.
A plot to invade through the U.S. was concocted by Captain von Papen, Military Attache to the German Embassy in Washington D.C. The scheme was to be put into motion by one Max L. Louden, who assumed the alias Count von Loudow, in the guise of an officer in the Prussian Guard. At the time, German reservists in the U.S. numbered 150,000 men.
Count von Loudow travelled to Ottawa to obtain military maps of hte St. Lawrence Frontier from the Canadian Dept. of Militia and Defense, and then took them back to Washington.
The maps were distributed to various patriotic German-American organizations acting as fronts for the German Army. Fuelled by a budget if $16 million, rifles and ammunition had been secured and sequestered in the numerous German-run breweries near the Canadian border. Once war was declared, “it had been arranged to send (Reservists), from large cities following the announcements of feats and conventions.”
Reservists were to assemble at strategic border points and cross over the International Boundary in rented charter boats and attack the Welland Canal near Niagara, Windmill Point near Prescott, and Cornwall from across the St. Lawrence River. Von Louden was to lead the invasion at Cornwall, cutting telegraph, telephone and railway lines leading to Ottawa. This would undermine the Canadian militia’s ability to issue general mobilization orders.
However, the scheme was uncovered, not by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, as might be expected, since the St. Lawrence was their beat. The invasion was foiled by officials of the American Dept. of Justice, who were striving to maintain their country’s neutrality. The arrested von Louden on charges of bigamy in Buffalo at the start of the war.
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James G
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Post by James G on Feb 14, 2020 18:22:19 GMT
What if: German Plan to Invade Canada, World War IWhen World War I broke out in August 1914, and the British Empire marched off to war, it was by no means certain that the United States would go to battle against Germany, given their isolationist politics and the large number of German immigrants living in America. Even before the war had begun, Imperial German military officials planned to take advantage of the many narrow river crossings between the U.S. and Canada. The crossing at Cornwall and the proximity to Ottawa and Canada’s largest city Montreal made the Eastern Ontario section of the St. Lawrence River, with its canals, railways and railway bridges, particularly vulnerable. A plot to invade through the U.S. was concocted by Captain von Papen, Military Attache to the German Embassy in Washington D.C. The scheme was to be put into motion by one Max L. Louden, who assumed the alias Count von Loudow, in the guise of an officer in the Prussian Guard. At the time, German reservists in the U.S. numbered 150,000 men. Count von Loudow travelled to Ottawa to obtain military maps of hte St. Lawrence Frontier from the Canadian Dept. of Militia and Defense, and then took them back to Washington. The maps were distributed to various patriotic German-American organizations acting as fronts for the German Army. Fuelled by a budget if $16 million, rifles and ammunition had been secured and sequestered in the numerous German-run breweries near the Canadian border. Once war was declared, “it had been arranged to send (Reservists), from large cities following the announcements of feats and conventions.” Reservists were to assemble at strategic border points and cross over the International Boundary in rented charter boats and attack the Welland Canal near Niagara, Windmill Point near Prescott, and Cornwall from across the St. Lawrence River. Von Louden was to lead the invasion at Cornwall, cutting telegraph, telephone and railway lines leading to Ottawa. This would undermine the Canadian militia’s ability to issue general mobilization orders. However, the scheme was uncovered, not by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, as might be expected, since the St. Lawrence was their beat. The invasion was foiled by officials of the American Dept. of Justice, who were striving to maintain their country’s neutrality. The arrested von Louden on charges of bigamy in Buffalo at the start of the war. A conflict averted by bigamy! This I find amusing. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 14, 2020 19:06:54 GMT
What if: German Plan to Invade Canada, World War IWhen World War I broke out in August 1914, and the British Empire marched off to war, it was by no means certain that the United States would go to battle against Germany, given their isolationist politics and the large number of German immigrants living in America. Even before the war had begun, Imperial German military officials planned to take advantage of the many narrow river crossings between the U.S. and Canada. The crossing at Cornwall and the proximity to Ottawa and Canada’s largest city Montreal made the Eastern Ontario section of the St. Lawrence River, with its canals, railways and railway bridges, particularly vulnerable. A plot to invade through the U.S. was concocted by Captain von Papen, Military Attache to the German Embassy in Washington D.C. The scheme was to be put into motion by one Max L. Louden, who assumed the alias Count von Loudow, in the guise of an officer in the Prussian Guard. At the time, German reservists in the U.S. numbered 150,000 men. Count von Loudow travelled to Ottawa to obtain military maps of te St. Lawrence Frontier from the Canadian Dept. of Militia and Defense, and then took them back to Washington. The maps were distributed to various patriotic German-American organizations acting as fronts for the German Army. Fuelled by a budget if $16 million, rifles and ammunition had been secured and sequestered in the numerous German-run breweries near the Canadian border. Once war was declared, “it had been arranged to send (Reservists), from large cities following the announcements of feats and conventions.” Reservists were to assemble at strategic border points and cross over the International Boundary in rented charter boats and attack the Welland Canal near Niagara, Windmill Point near Prescott, and Cornwall from across the St. Lawrence River. Von Louden was to lead the invasion at Cornwall, cutting telegraph, telephone and railway lines leading to Ottawa. This would undermine the Canadian militia’s ability to issue general mobilization orders. However, the scheme was uncovered, not by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, as might be expected, since the St. Lawrence was their beat. The invasion was foiled by officials of the American Dept. of Justice, who were striving to maintain their country’s neutrality. The arrested von Louden on charges of bigamy in Buffalo at the start of the war. A conflict averted by bigamy! This I find amusing. While Capone was jailed not for being a gangster but for tax evasion. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 15, 2020 14:54:42 GMT
What if: German Plan to Invade Canada, World War IWhen World War I broke out in August 1914, and the British Empire marched off to war, it was by no means certain that the United States would go to battle against Germany, given their isolationist politics and the large number of German immigrants living in America. Even before the war had begun, Imperial German military officials planned to take advantage of the many narrow river crossings between the U.S. and Canada. The crossing at Cornwall and the proximity to Ottawa and Canada’s largest city Montreal made the Eastern Ontario section of the St. Lawrence River, with its canals, railways and railway bridges, particularly vulnerable. A plot to invade through the U.S. was concocted by Captain von Papen, Military Attache to the German Embassy in Washington D.C. The scheme was to be put into motion by one Max L. Louden, who assumed the alias Count von Loudow, in the guise of an officer in the Prussian Guard. At the time, German reservists in the U.S. numbered 150,000 men. Count von Loudow travelled to Ottawa to obtain military maps of hte St. Lawrence Frontier from the Canadian Dept. of Militia and Defense, and then took them back to Washington. The maps were distributed to various patriotic German-American organizations acting as fronts for the German Army. Fuelled by a budget if $16 million, rifles and ammunition had been secured and sequestered in the numerous German-run breweries near the Canadian border. Once war was declared, “it had been arranged to send (Reservists), from large cities following the announcements of feats and conventions.” Reservists were to assemble at strategic border points and cross over the International Boundary in rented charter boats and attack the Welland Canal near Niagara, Windmill Point near Prescott, and Cornwall from across the St. Lawrence River. Von Louden was to lead the invasion at Cornwall, cutting telegraph, telephone and railway lines leading to Ottawa. This would undermine the Canadian militia’s ability to issue general mobilization orders. However, the scheme was uncovered, not by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, as might be expected, since the St. Lawrence was their beat. The invasion was foiled by officials of the American Dept. of Justice, who were striving to maintain their country’s neutrality. The arrested von Louden on charges of bigamy in Buffalo at the start of the war.
My initial reaction was WTF! This makes the suggests in 1916/17 for an alliance with Mexico look almost intelligent. Never heard about this before and thought I knew of most of the assorted mad plans that occurred at this point.
If it had somehow happened then it could have greatly shortened the war simply because I can see it being a strong incentive for immediate US intervention against Germany! Since the Germany government was seeking to use the US as a base for a secret army of German immigrants against a neighbour I think this would have gone down very badly in Washington as it definitely breaches American neutrality.
The funny [and worrying] bit for me was that a German posing as a Prussian Count was able to get military maps for the invasion from the Canadian Dept. of Militia and Defense!
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 15, 2020 15:01:46 GMT
If it had somehow happened then it could have greatly shortened the war simply because I can see it being a strong incentive for immediate US intervention against Germany! Since the Germany government was seeking to use the US as a base for a secret army of German immigrants against a neighbour I think this would have gone down very badly in Washington as it definitely breaches American neutrality. The funny [and worrying] bit for me was that a German posing as a Prussian Count was able to get military maps for the invasion from the Canadian Dept. of Militia and Defense!
Steve
That surprise you stevep , the plan was also to dress up all German-Americans as cowboys as the German foreign office's lawyers ruled that a cowboy costume would not be considered a military uniform under international law. |
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markp
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Post by markp on Feb 17, 2020 17:39:09 GMT
How would this irregular force be able to function for more than a few weeks. There would be no friendly civilian population to support them. If they returned to the US they would probably be arrested. The fact that the German started the invasion from US soil could result in a US declaration of war against Germany earlier than it actually happened. The only way this could work would be if the US government had a major change in position in support of Germany. Than this would be a US land grab blamed on the Germans. Given how stretched the British were it might have worked but also given how poorly equipped the US army was at the time it could have also been a disaster.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 17, 2020 17:44:55 GMT
How would this irregular force be able to function for more than a few weeks. There would be no friendly civilian population to support them. If they returned to the US they would probably be arrested. The fact that the German started the invasion from US soil could result in a US declaration of war against Germany earlier than it actually happened. The only way this could work would be if the US government had a major change in position in support of Germany. Than this would be a US land grab blamed on the Germans. Given how stretched the British were it might have worked but also given how poorly equipped the US army was at the time it could have also been a disaster. Well if the capture a port city on the West Coast of Canada they could get the German East Asia Squadron under the command of Vice Admiral Maximilian, Reichsgraf von Spee as reincofrments. Second i was thinking, could Germany not use Canada as a bargain for the United Kingdom to leave the war. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 18, 2020 13:10:23 GMT
How would this irregular force be able to function for more than a few weeks. There would be no friendly civilian population to support them. If they returned to the US they would probably be arrested. The fact that the German started the invasion from US soil could result in a US declaration of war against Germany earlier than it actually happened. The only way this could work would be if the US government had a major change in position in support of Germany. Than this would be a US land grab blamed on the Germans. Given how stretched the British were it might have worked but also given how poorly equipped the US army was at the time it could have also been a disaster. Well if the capture a port city on the West Coast of Canada they could get the German East Asia Squadron under the command of Vice Admiral Maximilian, Reichsgraf von Spee as reincofrments. Second i was thinking, could Germany not use Canada as a bargain for the United Kingdom to leave the war.
Well the 2nd would rely on the plan somehow succeeding and it not having prompted a US dow against Germany. [Or alternatively a lot of people of British descent in the US and American volunteers deciding 'we can do this as well'. They wouldn't be as well trained and equipped as the German forces but its an additional problem for any short term let alone long term occupation of part of Canada.
On the 1st how would they get news to Spee of such a success? Radio is still very short ranged and they don't have any idea where he is. Also its likely in such a scenario that the ANZAC units sent to Egypt OTL go to Canada, escorted by HMAS Australia and other units so Spee heading that way could see a good chunk of his force being sunk quickly if they time it wrongly.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 18, 2020 14:47:05 GMT
Well if the capture a port city on the West Coast of Canada they could get the German East Asia Squadron under the command of Vice Admiral Maximilian, Reichsgraf von Spee as reincofrments. Second i was thinking, could Germany not use Canada as a bargain for the United Kingdom to leave the war. Well the 2nd would rely on the plan somehow succeeding and it not having prompted a US dow against Germany. [Or alternatively a lot of people of British descent in the US and American volunteers deciding 'we can do this as well'. They wouldn't be as well trained and equipped as the German forces but its an additional problem for any short term let alone long term occupation of part of Canada. Did not think of that, but then again i doubt the United Kingdom is going to declare war against the United States for allowing its territory to be used as a staging ground for a invasion of Canada. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 18, 2020 15:15:22 GMT
Well the 2nd would rely on the plan somehow succeeding and it not having prompted a US dow against Germany. [Or alternatively a lot of people of British descent in the US and American volunteers deciding 'we can do this as well'. They wouldn't be as well trained and equipped as the German forces but its an additional problem for any short term let alone long term occupation of part of Canada. Did not think of that, but then again i doubt the United Kingdom is going to declare war against the United States for allowing its territory to be used as a staging ground for a invasion of Canada.
Possibly we have a mis-understanding here? What I meant was that such volunteers could go in from the US, if the US government didn't react, to fight the Germans.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 18, 2020 15:19:50 GMT
Did not think of that, but then again i doubt the United Kingdom is going to declare war against the United States for allowing its territory to be used as a staging ground for a invasion of Canada. Possibly we have a mis-understanding here? What I meant was that such volunteers could go in from the US, if the US government didn't react, to fight the Germans.
Well the where trying to remain neutral in 1914, having 150,000 German-Americans dressed up as cowboys who cross over to Canada to depose and take over the country is not enough for the United States to declare war on Germany. |
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