genyodectes
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I'm just a Ceratosaur trying to make his way in Alternate History
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Post by genyodectes on Jan 22, 2020 1:56:24 GMT
In the 10th Century, King of the Germans, Otto I, was on his way to conquering the Three Kingdoms of France, having already conquered two of them as well as having conquered Italy and Germany. What if he finished off France before dying?
I hope to make this a timeline one day, but I'd need help making it, hence the title being World Building Project. I don't expect the ripples to reach outside of Europe for at least the first Century or two, but what is the aftermath of a United Empire under the Ottonians? Anyone interested in helping me with this project? I'll be working on my Charles Emil TL with my GF soon as well, but I'd like at least two TLs, to keep me busy. Any help will be accepted.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 22, 2020 20:14:29 GMT
In the 10th Century, King of the Germans, Otto I, was on his way to conquering the Three Kingdoms of France, having already conquered two of them as well as having conquered Italy and Germany. What if he finished off France before dying? I hope to make this a timeline one day, but I'd need help making it, hence the title being World Building Project. I don't expect the ripples to reach outside of Europe for at least the first Century or two, but what is the aftermath of a United Empire under the Ottonians? Anyone interested in helping me with this project? I'll be working on my Charles Emil TL with my GF soon as well, but I'd like at least two TLs, to keep me busy. Any help will be accepted.
It not only need him doing this but then his successor holding it together. What were the inheritance rules at the time? Also since the HRE was elected could he have secured the throne for his descendants? Plus of course as well as regional lords who will resent such a strong emperor this state will cause tension both with the Papacy and possibly also with the Eastern Empire, which was still very strong at the time. Although some agreement may be made between the two emperors. However remembering that Byzantium was still established in S Italy at this point there could be tension there.
Steve
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eurofed
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Post by eurofed on Jan 22, 2020 20:19:29 GMT
In the 10th Century, King of the Germans, Otto I, was on his way to conquering the Three Kingdoms of France, having already conquered two of them as well as having conquered Italy and Germany. What if he finished off France before dying? I hope to make this a timeline one day, but I'd need help making it, hence the title being World Building Project. I don't expect the ripples to reach outside of Europe for at least the first Century or two, but what is the aftermath of a United Empire under the Ottonians? Anyone interested in helping me with this project? I'll be working on my Charles Emil TL with my GF soon as well, but I'd like at least two TLs, to keep me busy. Any help will be accepted. Successful Ottonians is indeed one of the best PoDs to ensure a Carolingian-style unification of Western-Central Europe (another is to tinker with Charlemagne's successors). My only potential gripe with what you suggest is the time schedules of Otto I's reign and the succession war in West France when the Carolingian dynasty finally lapsed don't align that well. It was Otto II who got a good chance to intervene and grab the French throne with the right military butterflies, not Otto I. I suggest you either tinker with the sequence of dynastic crisis in West Francia to align it with Otto I's reign (potentially quite possible, with a few untimely deaths), or you move the PoD to Otto II's reign. |
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genyodectes
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I'm just a Ceratosaur trying to make his way in Alternate History
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Post by genyodectes on Jan 22, 2020 20:23:04 GMT
In the 10th Century, King of the Germans, Otto I, was on his way to conquering the Three Kingdoms of France, having already conquered two of them as well as having conquered Italy and Germany. What if he finished off France before dying? I hope to make this a timeline one day, but I'd need help making it, hence the title being World Building Project. I don't expect the ripples to reach outside of Europe for at least the first Century or two, but what is the aftermath of a United Empire under the Ottonians? Anyone interested in helping me with this project? I'll be working on my Charles Emil TL with my GF soon as well, but I'd like at least two TLs, to keep me busy. Any help will be accepted.
It not only need him doing this but then his successor holding it together. What were the inheritance rules at the time? Also since the HRE was elected could he have secured the throne for his descendants? Plus of course as well as regional lords who will resent such a strong emperor this state will cause tension both with the Papacy and possibly also with the Eastern Empire, which was still very strong at the time. Although some agreement may be made between the two emperors. However remembering that Byzantium was still established in S Italy at this point there could be tension there.
Steve
By the time of his death OTL, Otto had pretty much made Italy and Germany obediant, nearly completed the shift to Hereditary Monarchy in the HRE (Otto II would come close as well before his death), the Pope was very weak and didn't have the power that he would get in the later centuries, the Byzantines were going through a lot of other issues (Also, Otto II and Otto III's wives were from Byzantium (Theophanu for the former, Zoë Porphyrogenita for the latter (Though she would never get the chance to marry him before he died)). I think that the succession laws at the time were primogeniture, but I'm not sure. Give him, his son, and his grandson a few more years and the territory of Calabria and France , and it's likely the HRE will become fully hereditary, the Pope will be nothing more than a mere figurehead, and the Empire will be united. After all, they will be able to lead a crusade down south to take Sicily and Iberia as a common enemy later on. From there, I think that's when we begin to run into problems. |
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genyodectes
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I'm just a Ceratosaur trying to make his way in Alternate History
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Post by genyodectes on Jan 22, 2020 20:25:18 GMT
In the 10th Century, King of the Germans, Otto I, was on his way to conquering the Three Kingdoms of France, having already conquered two of them as well as having conquered Italy and Germany. What if he finished off France before dying? I hope to make this a timeline one day, but I'd need help making it, hence the title being World Building Project. I don't expect the ripples to reach outside of Europe for at least the first Century or two, but what is the aftermath of a United Empire under the Ottonians? Anyone interested in helping me with this project? I'll be working on my Charles Emil TL with my GF soon as well, but I'd like at least two TLs, to keep me busy. Any help will be accepted. Successful Ottonians is indeed one of the best PoDs to ensure a Carolingian-style unification of Western-Central Europe (another is to tinker with Charlemagne's successors). My only potential gripe with what you suggest is the time schedules of Otto I's reign and the succession war in West France when the Carolingian dynasty finally lapsed don't align that well. It was Otto II who got a good chance to intervene and grab the French throne with the right military butterflies, not Otto I. I suggest you either tinker with the sequence of dynastic crisis in West Francia to align it with Otto I's reign (potentially quite possible, with a few untimely deaths), or you move the PoD to Otto II's reign. Yeah, I was basing this WBP off a Thread I found on Althist.com (https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/ahc-ottonian-france.416581/), so I think I got a few things write. I'll be writing both my timelines very soon and I actually have a royal line planned out for the alternate HRE. If you want to help me, let me know. |
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eurofed
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Post by eurofed on Jan 22, 2020 20:43:07 GMT
Successful Ottonians is indeed one of the best PoDs to ensure a Carolingian-style unification of Western-Central Europe (another is to tinker with Charlemagne's successors). My only potential gripe with what you suggest is the time schedules of Otto I's reign and the succession war in West France when the Carolingian dynasty finally lapsed don't align that well. It was Otto II who got a good chance to intervene and grab the French throne with the right military butterflies, not Otto I. I suggest you either tinker with the sequence of dynastic crisis in West Francia to align it with Otto I's reign (potentially quite possible, with a few untimely deaths), or you move the PoD to Otto II's reign. Yeah, I was basing this WBP off a Thread I found on Althist.com (https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/ahc-ottonian-france.416581/), so I think I got a few things write. I'll be writing both my timelines very soon and I actually have a royal line planned out for the alternate HRE. If you want to help me, let me know. I'd like to help in an informal way, as much as my erratic schedule and limited free time would allow, since this is one of preferred AH subjects, but I am shy about committing myself to any collaborative project nowadays. Odd coincidence is, I wrote a TL of mine on this same broad scenario sometime ago, grew unsatisfied about certain features, had a thorough revision on backburner for quite some time, and your recent inquiries helped me get a sudden burst of energy and inspiration to complete it. |
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genyodectes
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I'm just a Ceratosaur trying to make his way in Alternate History
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Post by genyodectes on Jan 22, 2020 21:14:52 GMT
Yeah, I was basing this WBP off a Thread I found on Althist.com (https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/ahc-ottonian-france.416581/), so I think I got a few things write. I'll be writing both my timelines very soon and I actually have a royal line planned out for the alternate HRE. If you want to help me, let me know. I'd like to help in an informal way, as much as my erratic schedule and limited free time would allow, since this is one of preferred AH subjects, but I am shy about committing myself to any collaborative project nowadays. Odd coincidence is, I wrote a TL of mine on this same broad scenario sometime ago, grew unsatisfied about certain features, had a thorough revision on backburner for quite some time, and your recent inquiries helped me get a sudden burst of energy and inspiration to complete it. That's great to hear man. I'll send you what I have on Google Docs, but I won't be able to do much since me and my GF is planning our futures. |
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