Dark Earth: The First World War

simon darkshade Inspector-General Member is Online Posts: 4,976 Likes: 5,840	Dark Earth: The First World War Dec 26, 2019 13:06:37 GMT lordroel likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by simon darkshade on Dec 26, 2019 13:06:37 GMT It certainly is in effect.

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Dark Earth: The First World War Dec 26, 2019 13:40:59 GMT

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Post by lordroel on Dec 26, 2019 13:40:59 GMT

Dec 23, 2019 6:01:06 GMT simon darkshade said:

The Royal Guards, Musketeers and the famous French Foreign Legion were regarded as among the finest troops in Europe.

I think the British and Germans might disagree with that.

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simon darkshade Inspector-General Member is Online Posts: 4,976 Likes: 5,840	Dark Earth: The First World War Dec 26, 2019 13:56:21 GMT lordroel likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by simon darkshade on Dec 26, 2019 13:56:21 GMT Every state considered their own men to be the cream of Europe's troops, but the French are a bit more vociferous about their reputation.

lordroel Administrator Posts: 67,964 Likes: 49,369	Dark Earth: The First World War Dec 26, 2019 21:11:29 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by lordroel on Dec 26, 2019 21:11:29 GMT Dec 23, 2019 6:01:06 GMT simon darkshade said: Japan 24,000 Imperial Japanese Marines and 105,000 sailors. So no Special Naval Landing Force but real Japanese marines.
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simon darkshade Inspector-General Member is Online Posts: 4,976 Likes: 5,840	Dark Earth: The First World War Dec 26, 2019 23:15:26 GMT via mobile lordroel likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by simon darkshade on Dec 26, 2019 23:15:26 GMT No, these are just known as Rikusentai/Naval Landing Forces, with a change in nomenclature coming after the Great War.

lordroel Administrator Posts: 67,964 Likes: 49,369	Dark Earth: The First World War Dec 27, 2019 8:55:24 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by lordroel on Dec 27, 2019 8:55:24 GMT Dec 23, 2019 6:01:06 GMT simon darkshade said: Italy The Regia Marina was one of the most powerful fleets in the Mediterranean Sea The British and French most likely also have powerful fleets in the Mediterranean Sea.
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Dark Earth: The First World War Dec 27, 2019 9:08:49 GMT via mobile lordroel likes this

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Post by simon darkshade on Dec 27, 2019 9:08:49 GMT

The French certainly do, whereas Britain began to concentrate a fair bit of its frontline strength at home to counterbalance the German High Seas Fleet.

As of 1914, the RN Mediterranean Fleet consisted of 3-4 dreadnoughts and 3-4 battlecruisers, all of the earlier types, along with 6 predreadnoughts.

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Dark Earth: The First World War Dec 27, 2019 9:37:59 GMT

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Post by lordroel on Dec 27, 2019 9:37:59 GMT

Dec 27, 2019 9:08:49 GMT simon darkshade said:

The French certainly do, whereas Britain began to concentrate a fair bit of its frontline strength at home to counterbalance the German High Seas Fleet.

As of 1914, the RN Mediterranean Fleet consisted of 3-4 dreadnoughts and 3-4 battlecruisers, all of the earlier types, along with 6 predreadnoughts.

Does the The Mediterranean Division (German: Mittelmeer-Division) of the German Imperial Navy in 1914 consist of more than 2 ships ore is it the same as OTL.

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simon darkshade Inspector-General Member is Online Posts: 4,976 Likes: 5,840	Dark Earth: The First World War Dec 27, 2019 9:52:41 GMT via mobile lordroel likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by simon darkshade on Dec 27, 2019 9:52:41 GMT It consists of 2 battlecruisers, 1 armoured cruiser and 3 light cruisers.

lordroel Administrator Posts: 67,964 Likes: 49,369	Dark Earth: The First World War Dec 27, 2019 10:07:06 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by lordroel on Dec 27, 2019 10:07:06 GMT Dec 27, 2019 9:52:41 GMT simon darkshade said: It consists of 2 battlecruisers, 1 armoured cruiser and 3 light cruisers. But still no match for either the French ore British fleets in the Mediterranean.
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simon darkshade Inspector-General Member is Online Posts: 4,976 Likes: 5,840	Dark Earth: The First World War Dec 27, 2019 10:18:37 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by simon darkshade on Dec 27, 2019 10:18:37 GMT Not even in conjunction with the Austro-Hungarians. The Italians make a fairly rapid entry into the war, having been moving away from their Triple Alliance partners for some time.

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Dark Earth: The First World War Dec 27, 2019 10:25:48 GMT

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Post by lordroel on Dec 27, 2019 10:25:48 GMT

Dec 27, 2019 10:18:37 GMT simon darkshade said:

Not even in conjunction with the Austro-Hungarians. The Italians make a fairly rapid entry into the war, having been moving away from their Triple Alliance partners for some time.

Well i doubt the Austro-Hungarians are stupid enough to send in their fleet into the Mediterranean, they most likely want to control the Adriatic Sea
.

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Dark Earth: The First World War Dec 27, 2019 10:29:43 GMT

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Post by stevep on Dec 27, 2019 10:29:43 GMT

Dec 26, 2019 12:06:28 GMT simon darkshade said:

Battle Fleets of the World in 1914

Royal Navy
Dreadnought: 25,600t, 12 x 12”, 16 x 4.7”, 23kts
Bellerophon: 26,900t, 12 x 12”, 18 x 4.7”, 23kts
Temeraire: 26,900t, 12 x 12”, 18 x 4.7”, 23kts
Superb: 26,900t, 12 x 12”, 18 x 4.7”, 23kts
Magnificent: 26,900t, 12 x 12”, 18 x 4.7”, 23kts
Vanguard: 26,900t, 12 x 12”, 18 x 4.7”, 23kts
St. Vincent: 27,800t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 4”, 23kts
Collingwood: 27,800t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 4”, 23kts
Benbow: 27,800t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 4”, 23kts
Camperdown: 27,800t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 4”, 23kts

Colossus: 29,560t, 12 x 13.5”, 20 x 4.7”, 23kts
Agammemnon: 29,560t, 12 x 13.5”, 20 x 4.7”, 23kts
Swiftsure: 29,560t, 12 x 13.5”, 20 x 4.7”, 23kts
Triumph: 29,560t, 12 x 13.5”, 20 x 4.7”, 23kts
Neptune: 30,920t, 12 x 13.5”, 20 x 4.7”, 23kts
Jupiter: 30,920t, 12 x 13.5”, 20 x 4.7”, 23kts
Hercules: 30,920t, 12 x 13.5”, 20 x 4.7”, 23kts
Theseus: 30,920t, 12 x 13.5”, 20 x 4.7”, 23kts

Orion: 36,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 25kts
Monarch: 36,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 25kts
Conqueror: 36,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 25kts
Thunderer: 36,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 25kts
Victorious: 40,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 25kts
Emperor of India: 40,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 25kts
Dragon: 40,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 25kts
Sans Pareil: 40,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 25kts
King George V: 42000t, 8 x 15”, 18 x 6”, 25kts
Centurion: 42000t, 8 x 15”, 18 x 6”, 25kts
Audacious: 42000t, 8 x 15”, 18 x 6”, 25kts

Invincible: 28,000t, 8 x 12”, 12 x 6”, 12 x 4”, 27.5kts
Inflexible: 28,000t, 8 x 12”, 12 x 6”, 12 x 4”, 27.5kts
Indefatigable: 28,000t, 8 x 12”, 12 x 6”, 12 x 4”, 27.5kts
Indomitable: 28,000t, 8 x 12”, 12 x 6”, 12 x 4”, 27.5kts
Implacable: 30,000t, 8 x 12”, 12 x 6”, 12 x 4”, 27.5kts
Irresistible: 30,000t, 8 x 12”, 12 x 6”, 12 x 4”, 27.5kts
Insuperable: 30,000t, 8 x 12”, 12 x 6”, 12 x 4”, 27.5kts
Intrepid: 30,000t, 8 x 12”, 12 x 6”, 12 x 4”, 27.5kts

Lion: 42,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 16 x 4”, 29.5kts
Tiger: 42,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 16 x 4”, 29.5kts
Princess Royal: 42,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 16 x 4”, 29.5kts
Queen Mary: 42,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 16 x 4”, 29.5kts
Australia: 45,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 16 x 4”, 29.5kts
New Zealand: 45,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 16 x 4”, 29.5kts
Canada : 45,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 16 x 4”, 29.5kts
South Africa: 45,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 16 x 4”, 29.5kts

Building:
Ajax: 42000t, 8 x 15”, 18 x 6”, 25kts
Iron Duke: 45,000t, 8 x 15”, 20 x 6”, 25kts
Marlborough: 45,000t, 8 x 15”, 20 x 6”, 25kts
Britannia: 45,000t, 8 x 15”, 20 x 6”, 25kts
Waterloo: 45,000t, 8 x 15”, 20 x 6”, 25kts

Queen Elizabeth: 56,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Victoria: 56,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Warspite: 56,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Valiant: 56,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Barham: 56,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Devastation: 56,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Trafalgar: 56,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Nile: 56,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Revenge: 58,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Royal Sovereign: 58,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Resolution: 58,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Ramillies: 58,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Royal Oak: 58,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Ranger: 58,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Reprisal: 58,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Resistance: 58,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts

King Alfred: 60,000t, 8 x 18”, 20 x 6”, 32.5kts
King Richard: 60,000t, 8 x 18”, 20 x 6”, 32.5kts
Henry V: 60,000t, 8 x 18”, 20 x 6”, 32.5kts
King Arthur: 60,000t, 8 x 18”, 20 x 6”, 32.5kts

Imperial German Navy

Nassau: 24,980t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 21kts
Westfalen: 24,980t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 21kts
Posen: 24,980t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 21kts
Rheinland: 24,980t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 21kts
Anhalt: 24,980t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 21kts
Oldenburg: 28,730t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 22kts
Ostfriedland: 28,730t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 22kts
Thuringen: 28,730t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 22kts
Brandenburg: 28,730t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 22kts
Schwarzburg: 28,730t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 22kts

Kaiser: 36,000t, 10 x 350mm, 12 x 150mm, 24kts
Friedrich der Grosse: 36,000t, 10 x 350mm, 12 x 150mm, 24kts
Kaiserin: 36,000t, 10 x 350mm, 12 x 150mm, 24kts
Konig Ludwig: 36,000t, 10 x 350mm, 12 x 150mm, 24kts
König Albert: 36,000t, 10 x 350mm, 12 x 150mm, 24kts
König: 42,000t, 10 x 350mm, 16 x 150mm, 25kts
Grosser Kurfürst: 42,000t, 10 x 350mm, 16 x 150mm, 25kts
Grossherzog: 42,000t, 10 x 350mm, 16 x 150mm, 25kts
Markgraf: 42,000t, 10 x 350mm, 16 x 150mm, 25kts

Von Der Tann: 29,560t, 8 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 27kts
Moltke: 29,560t, 8 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 27kts
Goeben: 29,560t, 8 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 27kts
Seydlitz: 29,560t, 8 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 27kts
Derrflinger: 47,000t, 8 x 380mm, 16 x 150mm, 29kts
Lutzow: 47,000t, 8 x 380mm, 16 x 150mm, 29kts
Yorck: 47,000t, 8 x 380mm, 16 x 150mm, 29kts

Building:
Kronprinz: 42,000t, 10 x 350mm, 16 x 150mm, 25kts

Baden: 54,000t, 8 x 420mm, 16 x 150mm, 27kts
Bayern: 54,000t, 8 x 420mm, 16 x 150mm, 27kts
Sachsen: 54,000t, 8 x 420mm, 16 x 150mm, 27kts
Wurttemburg: 54,000t, 8 x 420mm, 16 x 150mm, 27kts

Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse: 64,000t, 8 x 480mm, 20 x 150mm, 28.5kts
Kaiser Barbarossa: 64,000t, 8 x 480mm, 20 x 150mm, 28.5kts

United States Navy

South Carolina: 25,900t, 12 x 12”, 18 x 5”, 22kts
Michigan: 25,900t, 12 x 12”, 18 x 5”, 22kts
Vermont: 27,500t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 5”, 22kts
North Carolina: 27,500t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 5”, 22kts
Delaware: 28,400t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 5”, 22kts
North Dakota: 28,400t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 5”, 22kts
Massachusetts: 29,500t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 5”, 22kts
Iowa: 29,500t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 5”, 22kts

Florida: 35,400t, 12 x 14”, 20 x 5”, 24kts
Utah: 35,400t, 12 x 14”, 20 x 5”, 24kts
Kansas: 36,600t, 12 x 14”, 20 x 5”, 24kts
Wyoming: 36,600t, 12 x 14”, 20 x 5”, 24kts

New York: 42,750t, 9 x 16”, 18 x 5”, 24kts
Texas: 45,750t, 9 x 16”, 18 x 5”, 24kts
Arkansas: 45,375t, 9 x 16”, 18 x 5”, 24kts
Minnesota: 45,375t, 9 x 16”, 18 x 5”, 24kts

Enterprise: 30,400t, 8 x 12”, 16 x 5”, 29kts
Essex: 30,400t, 8 x 12”, 16 x 5”, 29kts
Merrimack: 30,400t, 8 x 12”, 16 x 5”, 29kts
Kearsarge: 30,400t, 8 x 12”, 16 x 5”, 29kts

Hornet: 40,000t, 9 x 14”, 16 x 5”, 31.5kts
Powhatan: 40,000t, 9 x 14”, 16 x 5”, 31.5kts
President: 40,000t, 9 x 14”, 16 x 5”, 31.5kts
Niagara: 40,000t, 9 x 14”, 16 x 5”, 31.5kts

Building:
New Mexico: 54,000t, 9 x 18”, 20 x 5”, 25kts
Mississippi: 54,000t, 9 x 18”, 20 x 5”, 25kts
Idaho: 54,000t, 9 x 18”, 20 x 5”, 25kts
Franklin: 54,000t, 9 x 18”, 20 x 5”, 25kts
Pennsylvania: 56,000t, 9 x 18”, 24 x 5”, 25kts
Arizona: 56,000t, 9 x 18”, 24 x 5”, 25kts
Lincoln: 56,000t, 9 x 18”, 24 x 5”, 25kts
Sylvania: 56,000t, 9 x 18”, 24 x 5”, 25kts

Marine Royale

France: 25,000t, 10 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 21kts
Paris: 25,000t, 10 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 21kts
Napoleon: 25,000t, 10 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 21kts
Courbet: 25,000t, 10 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 21kts
Saint Louis: 25,000t, 10 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 21kts
Charles Martel: 25,000t, 10 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 21kts

Gloire: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 24kts
Orient: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 24kts
Couronne: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 24kts
Imperial: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 24kts
Tonnant: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 24kts
Terrible: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 24kts

Neptune: 44,000t, 12 x 380mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 25kts
Magnifique: 44,000t, 12 x 380mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 25kts
Foudroyant: 44,000t, 12 x 380mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 25kts
Triomphant: 44,000t, 12 x 380mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 25kts

Jean Bart: 29,000t, 8 x 305mm, 16 x 138mm, 26kts
Colbert: 29,000t, 8 x 305mm, 16 x 138mm, 26kts
Jeanne d'Arc: 29,000t, 8 x 305mm, 16 x 138mm, 26kts

Building:
Bretagne: 44,000t, 12 x 380mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 25kts

Agamemnon: 56,000t, 8 x 460mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 26kts
Achilles: 56,000t, 8 x 460mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 26kts
Ajax: 56,000t, 8 x 460mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 26kts
Ulysse: 56,000t, 8 x 460mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 26kts
Sans Pareil: 56,000t, 8 x 460mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 26kts
Tonnere: 56,000t, 8 x 460mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 26kts

Hercule: 69,000t, 8 x 460mm, 24 x 138mm, 32kts
Annibal: 69,000t, 8 x 460mm, 24 x 138mm, 32kts

Imperial Russian Navy

Gangut: 27,000t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 25kts
Petropavlovsk: 27,000t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 25kts
Poltava: 27,000t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 25kts
Sevastopol: 27,000t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 25kts

Rossiya: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 26kts
Moskva: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 26kts
Sankt-Peterburg: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 26kts

Imperator Nikolai II: 42,000t, 12 x 356mm, 16 x 152mm, 26kts
Imperatritsa Mariya: 42,000t, 12 x 356mm, 16 x 152mm, 26kts

Rurik: 28,000t, 8 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 27kts
Yaroslav: 28,000t, 8 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 27kts

Building:
Imperatritsa Yelisavet: 42,000t, 12 x 356mm, 16 x 152mm, 26kts
Imperator Aleksandr II: 42,000t, 12 x 356mm, 16 x 152mm, 26kts

Imperator Nikolai I: 54,000t, 12 x 406mm, 20 x 130mm, 27kts
Imperator Pyotr Veliky: 54,000t, 12 x 406mm, 20 x 130mm, 27kts
Imperatritsa Ekaterina Velikaya: 54,000t, 12 x 406mm, 20 x 130mm, 27ts
Imperator Ivan Grozny: 54,000t, 12 x 406mm, 20 x 130mm, 27kts
Imperator Mikhail Fedorovich: 54,000t, 12 x 406mm, 20 x 130mm, 27kts

Borodino: 56,000t, 9 x 406mm, 16 x 152mm, 29kts
Izmail: 56,000t, 9 x 406mm, 16 x 152mm, 29kts
Kinburn: 56,000t, 9 x 406mm, 16 x 152mm, 29kts
Navarin: 56,000t, 9 x 406mm, 16 x 152mm, 29kts

Imperial Japanese Navy

Satsuma: 25,400t, 12 x 12", 12 x 6", 12 x 4.7", 22kts
Aki: 25,400t, 12 x 12", 12 x 6", 12 x 4.7", 22kts
Kawachi: 26,400t, 12 x 12", 12 x 6", 12 x 4.7", 12 x 3", 22kts
Settsu: 26,400t, 12 x 12", 12 x 6", 12 x 4.7", 12 x 3", 22kts

Fuso: 40,000t, 8 x 15", 18 x 6", 12 x 3", 26kts
Yamashiro: 40,000t, 8 x 15", 18 x 6", 12 x 3", 26kts
Echizen: 40,000t, 8 x 15", 18 x 6", 12 x 3", 26kts
Kazusa: 40,000t, 8 x 15", 18 x 6", 12 x 3", 26kts

Ise: 42,000t, 8 x 15", 18 x 6", 8 x 3", 26kts
Hyuga: 42,000t, 8 x 15", 18 x 6", 8 x 3", 26kts
Shimosa: 42,000t, 8 x 15", 18 x 6", 8 x 3", 26kts
Tajima: 42,000t, 8 x 15", 18 x 6", 8 x 3", 26kts

Tsukuba: 27,000t, 8 x 12", 12 x 6", 12 x 4.7", 25kts
Ikumi: 27,000t, 8 x 12", 12 x 6", 12 x 4.7", 25kts
Ibuki: 30,000t, 8 x 12", 12 x 6", 12 x 4.7", 26.5kts
Kurama: 30,000t, 8 x 12", 12 x 6", 12 x 4.7", 26.5kts
Kongo: 48,000t, 8 x 16.1", 24 x 5", 32kts
Kirishima: 48,000t, 8 x 16.1", 24 x 5", 32kts

Building:
Hiei: 48,000t, 8 x 16.1", 24 x 5", 32kts
Haruna: 48,000t, 8 x 16.1", 24 x 5", 32kts

Regia Marina

Dante Aligheri: 25,000t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 24kts

Lorenzo de' Medici: 27,800t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 24kts
Niccolò Machiavelli: 27,800t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 24kts

Vittorio Emanuele: 32,000t, 12 x 356mm, 12 x 152mm, 12 x 120mm, 26kts
Regina Elena: 32,000t, 12 x 356mm, 12 x 152mm, 12 x 120mm, 26kts

Conte di Cavour: 45,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 25kts
Leonadro da Vinci: 45,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 25kts
Giulio Cesare: 45,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 25kts
Andrea Doria: 45,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 25kts
Caio Duilio: 45,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 25kts

Cristoforo Colombo: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts
Marcantonio Colonna: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts
Francesco Ferruccio: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts

Building:
Bartolomeo Colleoni: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts

Austro-Hungarian Navy
SMS Viribus Unitis: 25,970t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 24 x 66mm, 24kts
SMS Tegetthoff: 25,970t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 24 x 66mm, 24kts
SMS Prinz Eugen: 25,970t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 24 x 66mm, 24kts
SMS Szent István: 25,970t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 24 x 66mm, 24kts

SMS Lissa: 29,180t, 12 x 305mm, 16 x 150mm, 20 x 66mm, 24kts
SMS Lussino: 29,180t, 12 x 305mm, 16 x 150mm, 20 x 66mm, 24kts
SMS Donau: 29,180t, 12 x 305mm, 16 x 150mm, 20 x 66mm, 24kts

Building:
SMS Kaiser Franz Josef: 36,785t, 12 x 350mm, 16 x 150mm, 16 x 90mm, 25kts
SMS Kaiserin Elisabeth: 36,785t, 12 x 350mm, 16 x 150mm, 16 x 90mm, 25kts
SMS Kaiserin und Konigin Maria Theresia: 36,785t, 12 x 350mm, 16 x 150mm, 16 x 90mm, 25kts

Bloody hell those are some big ships and a hell of a lot of them. Even allowing for the larger size of Dark Earth. If she has the same character as OTL I dread to think of what TTL HMS Warspite will do to its opponents here!

Last Edit: Dec 27, 2019 10:39:26 GMT by stevep

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Dark Earth: The First World War Dec 27, 2019 10:47:04 GMT

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Post by lordroel on Dec 27, 2019 10:47:04 GMT

Dec 27, 2019 10:29:43 GMT stevep said:

Dec 26, 2019 12:06:28 GMT simon darkshade said:

Battle Fleets of the World in 1914

Royal Navy
Dreadnought: 25,600t, 12 x 12”, 16 x 4.7”, 23kts
Bellerophon: 26,900t, 12 x 12”, 18 x 4.7”, 23kts
Temeraire: 26,900t, 12 x 12”, 18 x 4.7”, 23kts
Superb: 26,900t, 12 x 12”, 18 x 4.7”, 23kts
Magnificent: 26,900t, 12 x 12”, 18 x 4.7”, 23kts
Vanguard: 26,900t, 12 x 12”, 18 x 4.7”, 23kts
St. Vincent: 27,800t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 4”, 23kts
Collingwood: 27,800t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 4”, 23kts
Benbow: 27,800t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 4”, 23kts
Camperdown: 27,800t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 4”, 23kts

Colossus: 29,560t, 12 x 13.5”, 20 x 4.7”, 23kts
Agammemnon: 29,560t, 12 x 13.5”, 20 x 4.7”, 23kts
Swiftsure: 29,560t, 12 x 13.5”, 20 x 4.7”, 23kts
Triumph: 29,560t, 12 x 13.5”, 20 x 4.7”, 23kts
Neptune: 30,920t, 12 x 13.5”, 20 x 4.7”, 23kts
Jupiter: 30,920t, 12 x 13.5”, 20 x 4.7”, 23kts
Hercules: 30,920t, 12 x 13.5”, 20 x 4.7”, 23kts
Theseus: 30,920t, 12 x 13.5”, 20 x 4.7”, 23kts

Orion: 36,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 25kts
Monarch: 36,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 25kts
Conqueror: 36,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 25kts
Thunderer: 36,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 25kts
Victorious: 40,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 25kts
Emperor of India: 40,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 25kts
Dragon: 40,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 25kts
Sans Pareil: 40,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 25kts
King George V: 42000t, 8 x 15”, 18 x 6”, 25kts
Centurion: 42000t, 8 x 15”, 18 x 6”, 25kts
Audacious: 42000t, 8 x 15”, 18 x 6”, 25kts

Invincible: 28,000t, 8 x 12”, 12 x 6”, 12 x 4”, 27.5kts
Inflexible: 28,000t, 8 x 12”, 12 x 6”, 12 x 4”, 27.5kts
Indefatigable: 28,000t, 8 x 12”, 12 x 6”, 12 x 4”, 27.5kts
Indomitable: 28,000t, 8 x 12”, 12 x 6”, 12 x 4”, 27.5kts
Implacable: 30,000t, 8 x 12”, 12 x 6”, 12 x 4”, 27.5kts
Irresistible: 30,000t, 8 x 12”, 12 x 6”, 12 x 4”, 27.5kts
Insuperable: 30,000t, 8 x 12”, 12 x 6”, 12 x 4”, 27.5kts
Intrepid: 30,000t, 8 x 12”, 12 x 6”, 12 x 4”, 27.5kts

Lion: 42,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 16 x 4”, 29.5kts
Tiger: 42,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 16 x 4”, 29.5kts
Princess Royal: 42,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 16 x 4”, 29.5kts
Queen Mary: 42,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 16 x 4”, 29.5kts
Australia: 45,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 16 x 4”, 29.5kts
New Zealand: 45,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 16 x 4”, 29.5kts
Canada : 45,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 16 x 4”, 29.5kts
South Africa: 45,000t, 8 x 15”, 16 x 6”, 16 x 4”, 29.5kts

Building:
Ajax: 42000t, 8 x 15”, 18 x 6”, 25kts
Iron Duke: 45,000t, 8 x 15”, 20 x 6”, 25kts
Marlborough: 45,000t, 8 x 15”, 20 x 6”, 25kts
Britannia: 45,000t, 8 x 15”, 20 x 6”, 25kts
Waterloo: 45,000t, 8 x 15”, 20 x 6”, 25kts

Queen Elizabeth: 56,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Victoria: 56,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Warspite: 56,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Valiant: 56,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Barham: 56,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Devastation: 56,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Trafalgar: 56,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Nile: 56,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Revenge: 58,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Royal Sovereign: 58,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Resolution: 58,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Ramillies: 58,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Royal Oak: 58,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Ranger: 58,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Reprisal: 58,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts
Resistance: 58,000t, 8 x 18”, 24 x 6”, 28kts

King Alfred: 60,000t, 8 x 18”, 20 x 6”, 32.5kts
King Richard: 60,000t, 8 x 18”, 20 x 6”, 32.5kts
Henry V: 60,000t, 8 x 18”, 20 x 6”, 32.5kts
King Arthur: 60,000t, 8 x 18”, 20 x 6”, 32.5kts

Imperial German Navy

Nassau: 24,980t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 21kts
Westfalen: 24,980t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 21kts
Posen: 24,980t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 21kts
Rheinland: 24,980t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 21kts
Anhalt: 24,980t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 21kts
Oldenburg: 28,730t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 22kts
Ostfriedland: 28,730t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 22kts
Thuringen: 28,730t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 22kts
Brandenburg: 28,730t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 22kts
Schwarzburg: 28,730t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 22kts

Kaiser: 36,000t, 10 x 350mm, 12 x 150mm, 24kts
Friedrich der Grosse: 36,000t, 10 x 350mm, 12 x 150mm, 24kts
Kaiserin: 36,000t, 10 x 350mm, 12 x 150mm, 24kts
Konig Ludwig: 36,000t, 10 x 350mm, 12 x 150mm, 24kts
König Albert: 36,000t, 10 x 350mm, 12 x 150mm, 24kts
König: 42,000t, 10 x 350mm, 16 x 150mm, 25kts
Grosser Kurfürst: 42,000t, 10 x 350mm, 16 x 150mm, 25kts
Grossherzog: 42,000t, 10 x 350mm, 16 x 150mm, 25kts
Markgraf: 42,000t, 10 x 350mm, 16 x 150mm, 25kts

Von Der Tann: 29,560t, 8 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 27kts
Moltke: 29,560t, 8 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 27kts
Goeben: 29,560t, 8 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 27kts
Seydlitz: 29,560t, 8 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 27kts
Derrflinger: 47,000t, 8 x 380mm, 16 x 150mm, 29kts
Lutzow: 47,000t, 8 x 380mm, 16 x 150mm, 29kts
Yorck: 47,000t, 8 x 380mm, 16 x 150mm, 29kts

Building:
Kronprinz: 42,000t, 10 x 350mm, 16 x 150mm, 25kts

Baden: 54,000t, 8 x 420mm, 16 x 150mm, 27kts
Bayern: 54,000t, 8 x 420mm, 16 x 150mm, 27kts
Sachsen: 54,000t, 8 x 420mm, 16 x 150mm, 27kts
Wurttemburg: 54,000t, 8 x 420mm, 16 x 150mm, 27kts

Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse: 64,000t, 8 x 480mm, 20 x 150mm, 28.5kts
Kaiser Barbarossa: 64,000t, 8 x 480mm, 20 x 150mm, 28.5kts

United States Navy

South Carolina: 25,900t, 12 x 12”, 18 x 5”, 22kts
Michigan: 25,900t, 12 x 12”, 18 x 5”, 22kts
Vermont: 27,500t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 5”, 22kts
North Carolina: 27,500t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 5”, 22kts
Delaware: 28,400t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 5”, 22kts
North Dakota: 28,400t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 5”, 22kts
Massachusetts: 29,500t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 5”, 22kts
Iowa: 29,500t, 12 x 12”, 20 x 5”, 22kts

Florida: 35,400t, 12 x 14”, 20 x 5”, 24kts
Utah: 35,400t, 12 x 14”, 20 x 5”, 24kts
Kansas: 36,600t, 12 x 14”, 20 x 5”, 24kts
Wyoming: 36,600t, 12 x 14”, 20 x 5”, 24kts

New York: 42,750t, 9 x 16”, 18 x 5”, 24kts
Texas: 45,750t, 9 x 16”, 18 x 5”, 24kts
Arkansas: 45,375t, 9 x 16”, 18 x 5”, 24kts
Minnesota: 45,375t, 9 x 16”, 18 x 5”, 24kts

Enterprise: 30,400t, 8 x 12”, 16 x 5”, 29kts
Essex: 30,400t, 8 x 12”, 16 x 5”, 29kts
Merrimack: 30,400t, 8 x 12”, 16 x 5”, 29kts
Kearsarge: 30,400t, 8 x 12”, 16 x 5”, 29kts

Hornet: 40,000t, 9 x 14”, 16 x 5”, 31.5kts
Powhatan: 40,000t, 9 x 14”, 16 x 5”, 31.5kts
President: 40,000t, 9 x 14”, 16 x 5”, 31.5kts
Niagara: 40,000t, 9 x 14”, 16 x 5”, 31.5kts

Building:
New Mexico: 54,000t, 9 x 18”, 20 x 5”, 25kts
Mississippi: 54,000t, 9 x 18”, 20 x 5”, 25kts
Idaho: 54,000t, 9 x 18”, 20 x 5”, 25kts
Franklin: 54,000t, 9 x 18”, 20 x 5”, 25kts
Pennsylvania: 56,000t, 9 x 18”, 24 x 5”, 25kts
Arizona: 56,000t, 9 x 18”, 24 x 5”, 25kts
Lincoln: 56,000t, 9 x 18”, 24 x 5”, 25kts
Sylvania: 56,000t, 9 x 18”, 24 x 5”, 25kts

Marine Royale

France: 25,000t, 10 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 21kts
Paris: 25,000t, 10 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 21kts
Napoleon: 25,000t, 10 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 21kts
Courbet: 25,000t, 10 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 21kts
Saint Louis: 25,000t, 10 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 21kts
Charles Martel: 25,000t, 10 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 21kts

Gloire: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 24kts
Orient: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 24kts
Couronne: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 24kts
Imperial: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 24kts
Tonnant: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 24kts
Terrible: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 24 x 138mm, 24kts

Neptune: 44,000t, 12 x 380mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 25kts
Magnifique: 44,000t, 12 x 380mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 25kts
Foudroyant: 44,000t, 12 x 380mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 25kts
Triomphant: 44,000t, 12 x 380mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 25kts

Jean Bart: 29,000t, 8 x 305mm, 16 x 138mm, 26kts
Colbert: 29,000t, 8 x 305mm, 16 x 138mm, 26kts
Jeanne d'Arc: 29,000t, 8 x 305mm, 16 x 138mm, 26kts

Building:
Bretagne: 44,000t, 12 x 380mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 25kts

Agamemnon: 56,000t, 8 x 460mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 26kts
Achilles: 56,000t, 8 x 460mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 26kts
Ajax: 56,000t, 8 x 460mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 26kts
Ulysse: 56,000t, 8 x 460mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 26kts
Sans Pareil: 56,000t, 8 x 460mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 26kts
Tonnere: 56,000t, 8 x 460mm, 24 x 138mm, 12 x 75mm, 26kts

Hercule: 69,000t, 8 x 460mm, 24 x 138mm, 32kts
Annibal: 69,000t, 8 x 460mm, 24 x 138mm, 32kts

Imperial Russian Navy

Gangut: 27,000t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 25kts
Petropavlovsk: 27,000t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 25kts
Poltava: 27,000t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 25kts
Sevastopol: 27,000t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 25kts

Rossiya: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 26kts
Moskva: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 26kts
Sankt-Peterburg: 30,000t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 26kts

Imperator Nikolai II: 42,000t, 12 x 356mm, 16 x 152mm, 26kts
Imperatritsa Mariya: 42,000t, 12 x 356mm, 16 x 152mm, 26kts

Rurik: 28,000t, 8 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 27kts
Yaroslav: 28,000t, 8 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 27kts

Building:
Imperatritsa Yelisavet: 42,000t, 12 x 356mm, 16 x 152mm, 26kts
Imperator Aleksandr II: 42,000t, 12 x 356mm, 16 x 152mm, 26kts

Imperator Nikolai I: 54,000t, 12 x 406mm, 20 x 130mm, 27kts
Imperator Pyotr Veliky: 54,000t, 12 x 406mm, 20 x 130mm, 27kts
Imperatritsa Ekaterina Velikaya: 54,000t, 12 x 406mm, 20 x 130mm, 27ts
Imperator Ivan Grozny: 54,000t, 12 x 406mm, 20 x 130mm, 27kts
Imperator Mikhail Fedorovich: 54,000t, 12 x 406mm, 20 x 130mm, 27kts

Borodino: 56,000t, 9 x 406mm, 16 x 152mm, 29kts
Izmail: 56,000t, 9 x 406mm, 16 x 152mm, 29kts
Kinburn: 56,000t, 9 x 406mm, 16 x 152mm, 29kts
Navarin: 56,000t, 9 x 406mm, 16 x 152mm, 29kts

Imperial Japanese Navy

Satsuma: 25,400t, 12 x 12", 12 x 6", 12 x 4.7", 22kts
Aki: 25,400t, 12 x 12", 12 x 6", 12 x 4.7", 22kts
Kawachi: 26,400t, 12 x 12", 12 x 6", 12 x 4.7", 12 x 3", 22kts
Settsu: 26,400t, 12 x 12", 12 x 6", 12 x 4.7", 12 x 3", 22kts

Fuso: 40,000t, 8 x 15", 18 x 6", 12 x 3", 26kts
Yamashiro: 40,000t, 8 x 15", 18 x 6", 12 x 3", 26kts
Echizen: 40,000t, 8 x 15", 18 x 6", 12 x 3", 26kts
Kazusa: 40,000t, 8 x 15", 18 x 6", 12 x 3", 26kts

Ise: 42,000t, 8 x 15", 18 x 6", 8 x 3", 26kts
Hyuga: 42,000t, 8 x 15", 18 x 6", 8 x 3", 26kts
Shimosa: 42,000t, 8 x 15", 18 x 6", 8 x 3", 26kts
Tajima: 42,000t, 8 x 15", 18 x 6", 8 x 3", 26kts

Tsukuba: 27,000t, 8 x 12", 12 x 6", 12 x 4.7", 25kts
Ikumi: 27,000t, 8 x 12", 12 x 6", 12 x 4.7", 25kts
Ibuki: 30,000t, 8 x 12", 12 x 6", 12 x 4.7", 26.5kts
Kurama: 30,000t, 8 x 12", 12 x 6", 12 x 4.7", 26.5kts
Kongo: 48,000t, 8 x 16.1", 24 x 5", 32kts
Kirishima: 48,000t, 8 x 16.1", 24 x 5", 32kts

Building:
Hiei: 48,000t, 8 x 16.1", 24 x 5", 32kts
Haruna: 48,000t, 8 x 16.1", 24 x 5", 32kts

Regia Marina

Dante Aligheri: 25,000t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 24kts

Lorenzo de' Medici: 27,800t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 24kts
Niccolò Machiavelli: 27,800t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 152mm, 24kts

Vittorio Emanuele: 32,000t, 12 x 356mm, 12 x 152mm, 12 x 120mm, 26kts
Regina Elena: 32,000t, 12 x 356mm, 12 x 152mm, 12 x 120mm, 26kts

Conte di Cavour: 45,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 25kts
Leonadro da Vinci: 45,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 25kts
Giulio Cesare: 45,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 25kts
Andrea Doria: 45,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 25kts
Caio Duilio: 45,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 25kts

Cristoforo Colombo: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts
Marcantonio Colonna: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts
Francesco Ferruccio: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts

Building:
Bartolomeo Colleoni: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts

Austro-Hungarian Navy
SMS Viribus Unitis: 25,970t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 24 x 66mm, 24kts
SMS Tegetthoff: 25,970t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 24 x 66mm, 24kts
SMS Prinz Eugen: 25,970t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 24 x 66mm, 24kts
SMS Szent István: 25,970t, 12 x 305mm, 12 x 150mm, 24 x 66mm, 24kts

SMS Lissa: 29,180t, 12 x 305mm, 16 x 150mm, 20 x 66mm, 24kts
SMS Lussino: 29,180t, 12 x 305mm, 16 x 150mm, 20 x 66mm, 24kts
SMS Donau: 29,180t, 12 x 305mm, 16 x 150mm, 20 x 66mm, 24kts

Building:
SMS Kaiser Franz Josef: 36,785t, 12 x 350mm, 16 x 150mm, 16 x 90mm, 25kts
SMS Kaiserin Elisabeth: 36,785t, 12 x 350mm, 16 x 150mm, 16 x 90mm, 25kts
SMS Kaiserin und Konigin Maria Theresia: 36,785t, 12 x 350mm, 16 x 150mm, 16 x 90mm, 25kts

Bloody hell those are some big ships and a hell of a lot of them. Even allowing for the larger size of Dark Earth. If she has the same character as OTL I dread to think of what TTL HMS Warspite will do to its opponents here!

Everything is bigger and more in the Darkearth verse.

Some of these ships, like the King Alfred-class and the Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse-class are already the same size as a World War II design like the Montana class.

This is my mod color, when its this color, you know

simon darkshade
Inspector-General

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Dark Earth: The First World War Dec 27, 2019 11:06:54 GMT lordroel and stevep like this

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Post by simon darkshade on Dec 27, 2019 11:06:54 GMT

Steve, the vessels are larger, but it does come from more than simply the size of the world.

Firstly, Dreadnought is ~7500t heavier, due to a greater range, higher speed and increased armour, in that order. Historically, there was a rise from Dreadnought at 18,000t to 33,000t for the QEs in 9 years, or almost doubling of displacement.

The additional size of the Queen Elizabeth class in Dark Earth is a little more than double that of Dreadnought, with the additional displacement coming from the increased size of the main battery and accompanying armour.

Finally, the big factor in increased displacement comes from speed. Every extra knot costs a fair bit in displacement and money.

The impact of larger ships, particularly the jump to 16.5"-18", means that anything 15" or below is obsolete by the end of the war.

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Post by simon darkshade on Dec 26, 2019 13:06:37 GMT

Post by lordroel on Dec 26, 2019 13:40:59 GMT

Post by simon darkshade on Dec 26, 2019 13:56:21 GMT

Post by lordroel on Dec 26, 2019 21:11:29 GMT

Post by simon darkshade on Dec 26, 2019 23:15:26 GMT

Post by lordroel on Dec 27, 2019 8:55:24 GMT

Post by simon darkshade on Dec 27, 2019 9:08:49 GMT

Post by lordroel on Dec 27, 2019 9:37:59 GMT

Post by simon darkshade on Dec 27, 2019 9:52:41 GMT

Post by lordroel on Dec 27, 2019 10:07:06 GMT

Post by simon darkshade on Dec 27, 2019 10:18:37 GMT

Post by lordroel on Dec 27, 2019 10:25:48 GMT

Post by stevep on Dec 27, 2019 10:29:43 GMT

Post by lordroel on Dec 27, 2019 10:47:04 GMT

Post by simon darkshade on Dec 27, 2019 11:06:54 GMT