Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Nov 21, 2019 16:01:14 GMT
He rose from a humble home life, to a position as a KGB lieutenant colonel, to serving as both President and Prime Minister of the newfound Russian Federation in the years following the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Yet for all of his power and notoriety on the world stage in the current twenty-first century, Vladimir Putin has been given an opportunity to remake Russian history.
Because on January 1st, 1924, he wakes up in the body of the infamous, Georgia-born despot who industrialized the USSR--but at the expense of millions of lives callously spent. With Vladimir Putin now occupying the body of a forty-something Joseph Stalin the same year that he assumes leadership of the Soviet Union, what happens next?
Thank you in advance, Zyobot
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 21, 2019 16:02:49 GMT
He rose from a humble home life, to a position as a KGB lieutenant colonel, to serving as both President and Prime Minister of the newfound Russian Federation in the years following the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Yet for all of his power and notoriety on the world stage in the current twenty-first century, Vladimir Putin has been given an opportunity to remake Russian history. Because on January 1st, 1924, he wakes up in the body of the infamous, Georgia-born despot who industrialized the USSR--but at the expense of millions of lives callously spent. With Vladimir Putin now occupying the body of a forty-something Joseph Stalin the same year that he assumes leadership of the Soviet Union, what happens next? Thank you in advance, Zyobot
A certain person in Germany might be killed in a drive by shooting. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Nov 21, 2019 16:04:58 GMT
He rose from a humble home life, to a position as a KGB lieutenant colonel, to serving as both President and Prime Minister of the newfound Russian Federation in the years following the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Yet for all of his power and notoriety on the world stage in the current twenty-first century, Vladimir Putin has been given an opportunity to remake Russian history. Because on January 1st, 1924, he wakes up in the body of the infamous, Georgia-born despot who industrialized the USSR--but at the expense of millions of lives callously spent. With Vladimir Putin now occupying the body of a forty-something Joseph Stalin the same year that he assumes leadership of the Soviet Union, what happens next? Thank you in advance, Zyobot
A certain person in Germany might be killed in a drive by shooting. Probably, though there is the question as to what Hitler's demise means for Germany in the long run. Will it become saner as the Nazis fade into obscurity ITTL, or will someone more competent start up the Third Reich themselves? |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 21, 2019 16:16:17 GMT
A certain person in Germany might be killed in a drive by shooting. Probably, though there is the question as to what Hitler's demise means for Germany in the long run. Will it become saner as the Nazis fade into obscurity ITTL, or will someone more competent start up the Third Reich themselves? Seems Hitler is in jail due the Beer Hall Putsch, could he get a accident there. I think Stalin (Putin) might ramp up the support of the communist in Germany while also preparing to deal with Poland. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 22, 2019 11:52:04 GMT
Probably, though there is the question as to what Hitler's demise means for Germany in the long run. Will it become saner as the Nazis fade into obscurity ITTL, or will someone more competent start up the Third Reich themselves? Seems Hitler is in jail due the Beer Hall Putsch, could he get a accident there. I think Stalin (Putin) might ramp up the support of the communist in Germany while also preparing to deal with Poland.
Possibly, possibly not. Hitler was very bad for the people of the Soviet Union but good for the communist party as it cemented its power after the excesses of the party, especially under OTL Stalin and enabled it to expand its rule deep into Europe, which probably would have been unlikely without Hitler and the Nazis. As a source of chaos and disorder in Europe Hitler could well be good for Putin's aims for increased power - which I think we can take for granted.
Putin is more of a fascist than a communist but he could put his own stamp on Stalin's communism in one nation quite well. Will still be brutal and not care too much - if at all - about the suffering of the ordinary people but might be somewhat more efficient and hence less murderous than Stalin. Not sure which way he would go on collectivisation of land as that could have advantages for him either way. If he does it it centralises power and helps force people into industrialisation but not doing so would help make him popular with the ordinary peasants - still most of the population - and also give the country resources in terms of food to export.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 22, 2019 13:28:39 GMT
Seems Hitler is in jail due the Beer Hall Putsch, could he get a accident there. I think Stalin (Putin) might ramp up the support of the communist in Germany while also preparing to deal with Poland. Possibly, possibly not. Hitler was very bad for the people of the Soviet Union but good for the communist party as it cemented its power after the excesses of the party, especially under OTL Stalin and enabled it to expand its rule deep into Europe, which probably would have been unlikely without Hitler and the Nazis. As a source of chaos and disorder in Europe Hitler could well be good for Putin's aims for increased power - which I think we can take for granted. Putin is more of a fascist than a communist but he could put his own stamp on Stalin's communism in one nation quite well. Will still be brutal and not care too much - if at all - about the suffering of the ordinary people but might be somewhat more efficient and hence less murderous than Stalin. Not sure which way he would go on collectivisation of land as that could have advantages for him either way. If he does it it centralises power and helps force people into industrialisation but not doing so would help make him popular with the ordinary peasants - still most of the population - and also give the country resources in terms of food to export.
So Hitler and Stalin(Putin) working together, not something I would like to see, ore is it only as long as Stalin(Putin) feels a use for Hitler. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Nov 22, 2019 13:45:46 GMT
Seems Hitler is in jail due the Beer Hall Putsch, could he get a accident there. I think Stalin (Putin) might ramp up the support of the communist in Germany while also preparing to deal with Poland.
Possibly, possibly not. Hitler was very bad for the people of the Soviet Union but good for the communist party as it cemented its power after the excesses of the party, especially under OTL Stalin and enabled it to expand its rule deep into Europe, which probably would have been unlikely without Hitler and the Nazis. As a source of chaos and disorder in Europe Hitler could well be good for Putin's aims for increased power - which I think we can take for granted.
Putin is more of a fascist than a communist but he could put his own stamp on Stalin's communism in one nation quite well. Will still be brutal and not care too much - if at all - about the suffering of the ordinary people but might be somewhat more efficient and hence less murderous than Stalin. Not sure which way he would go on collectivisation of land as that could have advantages for him either way. If he does it it centralises power and helps force people into industrialisation but not doing so would help make him popular with the ordinary peasants - still most of the population - and also give the country resources in terms of food to export.
Mm’kay. Question: would Putin as Stalin look into implementing V. Lenin’s NEP at all? Aside from the fact that he comes from a future Russia that has adopted a form of oligarchic capitalism (which Putin could probably lived without if need be), I wonder if it might yield greater economic growth and development in the long run than OTL Stalin’s ruthless, breakneck, industrialize-at-all-costs collectivization efforts. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 22, 2019 18:14:58 GMT
Possibly, possibly not. Hitler was very bad for the people of the Soviet Union but good for the communist party as it cemented its power after the excesses of the party, especially under OTL Stalin and enabled it to expand its rule deep into Europe, which probably would have been unlikely without Hitler and the Nazis. As a source of chaos and disorder in Europe Hitler could well be good for Putin's aims for increased power - which I think we can take for granted. Putin is more of a fascist than a communist but he could put his own stamp on Stalin's communism in one nation quite well. Will still be brutal and not care too much - if at all - about the suffering of the ordinary people but might be somewhat more efficient and hence less murderous than Stalin. Not sure which way he would go on collectivisation of land as that could have advantages for him either way. If he does it it centralises power and helps force people into industrialisation but not doing so would help make him popular with the ordinary peasants - still most of the population - and also give the country resources in terms of food to export.
So Hitler and Stalin(Putin) working together, not something I would like to see, ore is it only as long as Stalin(Putin) feels a use for Hitler.
I think, assuming butterflies don't prevent Hitler coming to power, Putin would find him useful for distracting the democratic powers while he built up his power base and the Soviet military and industry. He could quite well make some agreement such as the OTL Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. Be less likely to be caught by surprise by a German attack but might he, like Stalin to a degree, believe his own propaganda and vastly overestimate the ability of the Red Army he creates. Especially if he fills it with yes men to keep it under control and simply assumes he can't make Stalin's mistakes. You might see a disasterous Soviet attack, say in 1941 before the Germans attack, assuming again that things go close enough to OTL. [Although if he has a Winter War and the Soviets struggle as OTL he might be more likely to realise he has problems.]
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 22, 2019 18:21:02 GMT
Possibly, possibly not. Hitler was very bad for the people of the Soviet Union but good for the communist party as it cemented its power after the excesses of the party, especially under OTL Stalin and enabled it to expand its rule deep into Europe, which probably would have been unlikely without Hitler and the Nazis. As a source of chaos and disorder in Europe Hitler could well be good for Putin's aims for increased power - which I think we can take for granted.
Putin is more of a fascist than a communist but he could put his own stamp on Stalin's communism in one nation quite well. Will still be brutal and not care too much - if at all - about the suffering of the ordinary people but might be somewhat more efficient and hence less murderous than Stalin. Not sure which way he would go on collectivisation of land as that could have advantages for him either way. If he does it it centralises power and helps force people into industrialisation but not doing so would help make him popular with the ordinary peasants - still most of the population - and also give the country resources in terms of food to export.
Mm’kay. Question: would Putin as Stalin look into implementing V. Lenin’s NEP at all? Aside from the fact that he comes from a future Russia that has adopted a form of oligarchic capitalism (which Putin could probably lived without if need be), I wonder if it might yield greater economic growth and development in the long run than OTL Stalin’s ruthless, breakneck, industrialize-at-all-costs collectivization efforts.
Well IIRC - but working from memory so could be wrong - at this point Stalin is still struggling with both Trotsky and also the more moderate elements lead by K & Z. It could be that as with Stalin he plays the two groups off against each other but by rejecting K&Z he could in the process be forced to reject a continuation of the NEP. Putin is more of an oligarchic as you say so he could favour a more capitalistic way of ruling the empire but with regular purges say to keep potential opponents weak and also avoid too much unrest by more radical elements in the country.
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